ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
My DW who is a diehard pixie duster made the SAME observation after a girls weekend at WDW/MK
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The Spirited Sixth Sense ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
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My DW who is a diehard pixie duster made the SAME observation after a girls weekend at WDW/MK
Clamman73
Well-Known Member
Thinking about it...It could be that in MK with the old vs new areas that there's a lack of continuity within the Park, which gives a sense that something is "off" in a way. Like for me, walking from the Speedway area to new Fantasyland area, especially once Mine Train is finished, I get that sense.
Funmeister
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I do not think they ever knew what to do with Epcot. It has had an identity crisis since it opened. Mind you I loved EPCOT when it first opened. SO many times they have tried and failed to kick-start the park with no success. Remember the circus? Kite Fest? Mistake on the Lake? Epcot '94? Epcot '95?
Can still hear Danny Kaye singing "The 21st Century now..." on the Epcot....EPCOT opening television special. Roy Clark? Marie Osmond? Drew Barrymore? GREAT watch if you find it online. Maybe YouTube.
It was such an amazing park. The angular planters on one side and round planters on the other representing left and right brain thinking and associated industries. Backstage at Innoventions still has some of the worlds largest single pieces or sheets of glass for a show that utilized peppers ghost with the little guy that would walk on computers and talk about the technology controls of EPCOT.
The Centorium had its own energy and environment that was open, clean and fun to explore. The multi octogon platforms and wide open spaces made it enjoyable. MiceGear is a cheap replacement just to shove cheap property-wide generic Disney merchandise down your throat.
Odyssey Restaurant was the "Tomorrowland Terrace" of EPCOT. (Including movable elevator stage)
SMRT-1
Loved how Communicore was basically a hands-on preview of each pavilion.
How amazing, at the time, you could type words into a computer and it would say the words you typed?
or the giant rock/coal presented by Exxon.
The world population clock.
Build your own rollercoaster with a beaver.
Future Corps
Upstairs above what is now the Art of Disney, there was a teacher resource center and you could find pen pals from all over the world. (before email)
The EPCOT Poll. Were you ever part of a group that voted on Russia or Egypt as the next country for World Showcase?
World Key
These by far were not major attractions but they are some of the small details that really made EPCOT special.
Funmeister
Well-Known Member
I really believe that I would rather have EPCOT in its original version (including Seas, Horizons and Imagination ride. They were not open on opening day) than what is there today.
wogwog
Well-Known Member
Interesting observation you bring up about slow transport at WDW. Like the other front line positions Disney pays bus drivers below rates that one with a CDL could make elsewhere. A bit more than front line cast in the parks but less than the local public bus system pays and I would imagine less than charter work in Orlando. Some tips would go to charter drivers as well. I have many friends and neighbors working at various levels at the Mouse joint and they tell me Disney recently started offering a finders bonus for any employee who refers a bus driver who is hired of $500. They also tell me that amount is a big increase above the previous usual bonus of $100 that has occasionally been offered for select hard to fill at the time positions. Perhaps that is a result of insufficient numbers of drivers currently or a planned addition of more buses. That would be a bit of a cost to Disney as I would estimate the cost of the regular bus at the $300,000 range each and the longer articulated bus they are using at $400,000 each. Just a guess but they are not cheap.
You monorail fans might jump to the conclusion Disney needs more buses to allow major work on the monorail system for improvements or expansion. I think I might regret mentioning that last scenario and setting loose the monorail geeks.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
And bring back the "Listen to the Land" song.
Seriously, having themed music at each pavilion helped guests built a long subconscious attachments to the attractions that they held onto for years. Nearly 30 years in my case.
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ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
This example is why I say Disney does not run a REAL hotel, When I'm staying at a Hilton at executive level When I enter the lounge the concierge asks if they can do anything for me, Car service, dinner/show reservations etc.
Disney's Concierge has no idea what the job entails which is making the guest's experience frictionless so they can simply enjoy their stay.
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
In my opinion (and it is a weak one), is that in the 1980s, the future "seemed" so much farther away. For historical reference purposes, that was still in the time period when kids used encyclopedias to write book reports on typewriters. In the 80s, 2015 was the future Marty McFly traveled to and now we are less than a year away from a time that was looked upon as the future (still don't have my damn hoverboard though!) Ideas, history, art, etc…, seemed so much more out of reach because the outlets for them were very limited. EPCOT was an epic idea at the time because it was sold as a theme park where you could go learn about the world you live in.
I think for our generation - those that were or near teenage years in the 80s - the future seems more like everyday reality at times. Answers to questions that I have now are all achievable in the palm of my hand. iPhones, iPads, computers provide such a wealth of knowledge now that a desire to go somewhere to learn something seems unnecessary, and probably absurd to some. There are other things that people have now that were only seen in movies or read about in books in the 80s.
Because of some of the advances we have achieved, I truly feel that most people today don't want to go to a park to "learn" something. There is now an online society where people can learn whatever they want, whenever they want. Body Wars? Why pay $90 dollars to go into a park to learn about the human body when I can learn everything about it on my Android? I think that most people want to go to a park for mindless entertainment.
Now do I agree with that? No. I think that the idea that originally was EPCOT was a tremendous, truly challenging idea for a theme park. I actually prefer the term concept park for EPCOT. When I first went to EPCOT in 2009, I was blown away by the scope of it. However, after walking around World Showcase and back through Future World, I remember leaving and feeling that the park was rather disjointed. Also, it was sprawling but with not a lot to do. I have recently watched some Youtube videos about EPCOT in the 80s and saw the potential for that park, but I feel that WDW has given up on that challenge for the time being.
Could they resuscitate it? I suppose that they could but I feel that the lack of sponsorship for the pavilions and the extreme cost makes it very painful for them to consider. I also don't see things like Body Wars working with today's general populace. To me, it should be centered around space exploration, and not with a ride that nobody goes on (i.e., Mission Space). That is something that could still be educational to people because I believe that space exploration is still an ideal that entices almost everyone. Perhaps WDW should speak to the new wave of billionaires that are trying to start their own space travel companies. They might be willing to spend the money to breath life into the pavilions again. Hell, even deep sea exploration is something that I think people are fascinated by. Get James Cameron involved in the Living Seas and make a Journey to Titanic Ride where you travel to the bottom of the Atlantic (Bill Paxton needs money these days). There still are things that WDW could do with EPCOT, and people would love them for it.
I think for our generation - those that were or near teenage years in the 80s - the future seems more like everyday reality at times. Answers to questions that I have now are all achievable in the palm of my hand. iPhones, iPads, computers provide such a wealth of knowledge now that a desire to go somewhere to learn something seems unnecessary, and probably absurd to some. There are other things that people have now that were only seen in movies or read about in books in the 80s.
Because of some of the advances we have achieved, I truly feel that most people today don't want to go to a park to "learn" something. There is now an online society where people can learn whatever they want, whenever they want. Body Wars? Why pay $90 dollars to go into a park to learn about the human body when I can learn everything about it on my Android? I think that most people want to go to a park for mindless entertainment.
Now do I agree with that? No. I think that the idea that originally was EPCOT was a tremendous, truly challenging idea for a theme park. I actually prefer the term concept park for EPCOT. When I first went to EPCOT in 2009, I was blown away by the scope of it. However, after walking around World Showcase and back through Future World, I remember leaving and feeling that the park was rather disjointed. Also, it was sprawling but with not a lot to do. I have recently watched some Youtube videos about EPCOT in the 80s and saw the potential for that park, but I feel that WDW has given up on that challenge for the time being.
Could they resuscitate it? I suppose that they could but I feel that the lack of sponsorship for the pavilions and the extreme cost makes it very painful for them to consider. I also don't see things like Body Wars working with today's general populace. To me, it should be centered around space exploration, and not with a ride that nobody goes on (i.e., Mission Space). That is something that could still be educational to people because I believe that space exploration is still an ideal that entices almost everyone. Perhaps WDW should speak to the new wave of billionaires that are trying to start their own space travel companies. They might be willing to spend the money to breath life into the pavilions again. Hell, even deep sea exploration is something that I think people are fascinated by. Get James Cameron involved in the Living Seas and make a Journey to Titanic Ride where you travel to the bottom of the Atlantic (Bill Paxton needs money these days). There still are things that WDW could do with EPCOT, and people would love them for it.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
On the surface that would seem to be true, however, no one is forced to use the transportation system. That is a personal choice. Mass transit cannot be everywhere at once, it is an inherent part of it's make up. On the other hand, there isn't a place in WDW that isn't reachable by car and that is instantaneous. No sitting on a bench, waiting. Leave your room jump directly into your vehicle, pull away and just like that you are there, spending money or whatever. The transportation system is strictly a convenience for the guests, if they wish to use it, and in a much bigger sense a way for Disney to keep one onsite by convincing them that one does not need to drive or have a vehicle.
I've been involved with public bus transportation in a municipal sense. I have compared that with Disney's and frankly, considering that for Disney it is absolutely classified as overhead expense to maintain the "magic", they do a remarkable job of moving thousands of people in one day. Our problem is that we tend to see any service just in the I, me, mine mode. I want a bus. Where is the bus? Damn those buses! Why isn't it here, I want to go! I'll bet the drivers has stopped to take a bathroom break just to upset us. Every guest at Disney has an option. The one that is chosen has it's own set of problems or advantages. If one chooses to use the bus and is upset because they have to wait for a bus, doesn't mean the system is broken, it means that they don't like how a busing system works and should use an alternative mode.
Snowflake82
Active Member
I want to like this post multiple times! Maybe Steve could let us have "like it" and "love it"?
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Or they can do what GOOD mass transit systems do and place displays which show the current ETA of the vehicles so you can decide whether alternate means would be a better choice,
If you are at a Resort bus stop and you see MK bus 45 Minutes - perhaps grab a car/taxi, Since current DIS buses have GPS and data link there is no reason TDO cannot do this.
I don't think it's the actual WAIT for a bus, it's the uncertainty of when a bus is arriving which is generally 20-45 minutes depending and with small kids the longer wait CAN be an eternity.
stevehousse
Well-Known Member
They do this at the deluxe resorts but not sure of the others?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
While this is true you need to have some form of mass transit. The answer can't be everyone just drive your own car. If the guests in all 30,000 rooms all decided to drive to the parks the parking lots would be completely overrun. There would be serious logistical problems and gridlock.
I do think there are opportunities for enhancing the transportation system. While it's not practical to connect every hotel to the monorail system they could add something like a few light rail lines. They don't need elevated tracks and expensive platforms. Here's an example: With a few miles of track they could run a line between Disney Springs and DHS with stops at SSR, OKW, EPCOT and BC/YC/BW/S&D. A slightly larger loop could incorporate Caribbean Beach and Dixie Landing as well as Typhoon Lagoon. Modern light rail systems can be built for less than $20M a mile so if that loop ends up being 5 miles it would cost $100M but you would eliminate bus service to 2 parks, a waterpark and Disney Springs for 7 or 8 hotels and create a transfer point for the monorail resorts. For guests it would be a more enjoyable experience since the train is a lot more likely to be on time than a bus that has to deal with traffic.
LondonGopher
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, our family just returned from a split-stay holiday at Hilton Waikoloa (Kings' Land) and Aulani. We had this EXACT experience. The customer service at Hilton was spectacular. No one could do enough for us. From the bellhop to the concierge to the business center to the pool attendants - PROACTIVE service (but never pushy). That feeling that staff is watching and will jump in when people look confused, lost or frustrated. PROACTIVE!
At Aulani, it couldn't have been more different. We had two OUTSTANDING CMs (Vance and one of the pool towel girls) but the others - I was so disappointed. I know many people prefer to do everything on their own via the web these days - but if I approach the concierge, I obviously want some help/advice...The service at Aulani was reactive. And often seemed grudging. I do realize that part of this is probably the difference between O'ahu and the Big Island. But hubby said he'd never go back to Aulani. He said it felt like Ryanair - service with a scowl, and one hand in your pocket. And while I thought it was beautiful (and DS (7) loved the pools), I felt less like a guest, and more like a walking wallet. And that never used to happen at Disney...
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Which ones? BLT/Contemp did not have in Dec
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Wow. It's earned back about 1/2 of its production costs. It's dropped to sixth place this week according to estimates. I think the Robocop remake is officially a bomb.
I agree, I really liked the Hilton Waikoloa, it reminded me of Disney quality and service and liked the different transportation options like taking the boat or the peoplemover or just walking. The people were very friendly and helpful. We didn't stay at the Aulani, but looked around quite a bit and wasn't too impressed by the people or the hotel, it looked similar to the Marriott next door.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Didn't they put that system in place in some spots in WDW. Seems like I remember reading about it. It is a helpful system but, not really accurate 100% of the time. Any transportation that is public road oriented will have unforeseen delays. If the computer sees that a bus is 10 minutes away and posts it as such, and there is an accident that they cannot get around right away, unless that information is physically overridden, it will have a group of very unhappy people 15 minutes later cursing out the schedule sign. Every solution has it's own problems and it sometimes isn't worth it to exchange one problem for another. The solution can be worse.
True, we cannot all get to the parking lot at one time, but, many aren't concerned about the delays. One of the biggest is the non-concerned group is Disney. We are talking about massive overhead costs no matter what the alternative. You don't hear everyone complaining about the wait, and that number will not change. They know there will be delays and decide that it is worth it not to use their own vehicle. But, for those that are truly frustrated by the wait, there is an alternative readily available. As for money lost, I don't see how it changes anything for Disney. They get the same amount of money in admittance fees if you arrive right now or 30 minutes from now. You will still eat and buy souvenirs. I don't see where a single penny is lost by the delays at all.
Just a question, wouldn't light rail with all those stops, delay ones arrival even more the a bus running directly from the resort to the park? Wouldn't one still have to wait for the train to arrive. Other then the numbers of people that can ride at one time, what would be gained? Opening and closing times are the only times that there is a large, all of a sudden, increase in riders. The buses easily take care of middle of the day traffic, so as much as I think it would be cool, I don't see how it becomes a big enough advantage to justify the cost.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
The delays CAN be accurate when you have the buses current position and traffic delay information, This is how modern GPS systems calculate your arrival time which is pretty accurate. So if there is an accident/jam you will see ETA increasing along with perhaps a dispatch message 'Travel to MK disrupted due to accident on World Drive' for example.
Light rail WOULD be a better transit modality, for large resorts you would still need internal buses but this would be a much more predictable transit system.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Oops...