The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[lebeau]

Or they can do what GOOD mass transit systems do and place displays which show the current ETA of the vehicles so you can decide whether alternate means would be a better choice,

If you are at a Resort bus stop and you see MK bus 45 Minutes - perhaps grab a car/taxi, Since current DIS buses have GPS and data link there is no reason TDO cannot do this.

I don't think it's the actual WAIT for a bus, it's the uncertainty of when a bus is arriving which is generally 20-45 minutes depending and with small kids the longer wait CAN be an eternity.

Quoting for truth. This is exactly the problem.

Well, that and when the bus finally arrives 20-45 minutes later (remember when 20 minutes was the average and not a short wait?) you have to wait while they load up all the scooters and then it's standing-room only and you may be at the mercy of strangers to get your small children a seat. As a healthy male, I know I will never sit on a Disney bus unless it is in the afternoon when the buses aren't packed. Every morning and evening, I'm going to stand. The best I can do is hope for a relatively short wait and that the people packed like sardines around me have bathed and used deodorant.

 

[rael ramone]

You can't have it both ways to my unenlightened pals: either you pay people a living wage

And we thought the MDE was just to keep the guests away from Harry & Shamu...

They don't want the guests to drive around the area and see the Igervilles where the CM's have to bunk

 

[lebeau]

They get the same amount of money in admittance fees if you arrive right now or 30 minutes from now. You will still eat and buy souvenirs. I don't see where a single penny is lost by the delays at all.

Over the years, I have watched bus service deteriorate to the point where it is a major source of frustration. Every time, I tell myself "Next time, I'm renting a car." The minute I do that, I no longer have an incentive to stay on property. Or to eat all my meals there. Or to not visit other Orlando attractions.

Frankly, every time I think about taking a Disney World vacation, I think about the nightmare bus rides I endured on our last two trips. It's one of the reasons I keep putting off our next Disney World vacation.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the poor bus service has cost Disney some of my money. And will likely cost them much more in the future. It will be one of the things that will contribute to Disney losing my business entirely if they don't turn things around.

 

[GoofGoof]

True, we cannot all get to the parking lot at one time, but, many aren't concerned about the delays. One of the biggest is the non-concerned group is Disney. We are talking about massive overhead costs no matter what the alternative. You don't hear everyone complaining about the wait, and that number will not change. They know there will be delays and decide that it is worth it not to use their own vehicle. But, for those that are truly frustrated by the wait, there is an alternative readily available. As for money lost, I don't see how it changes anything for Disney. They get the same amount of money in admittance fees if you arrive right now or 30 minutes from now. You will still eat and buy souvenirs. I don't see where a single penny is lost by the delays at all.

Just a question, wouldn't light rail with all those stops, delay ones arrival even more the a bus running directly from the resort to the park? Wouldn't one still have to wait for the train to arrive. Other then the numbers of people that can ride at one time, what would be gained? Opening and closing times are the only times that there is a large, all of a sudden, increase in riders. The buses easily take care of middle of the day traffic, so as much as I think it would be cool, I don't see how it becomes a big enough advantage to justify the cost.

The difference with light rail is that it doesn't need to stop for traffic lights, cars or traffic. It would make more stops than the bus does, but it would make up time by being a more direct route with no traffic related stops. If the system is run properly it's a lot more predictable than busses too. You would still need to wait for the train, but at least you wouldn't have that unknown of will the wait be 10 minutes or 40. The ride would be more enjoyable too for most guests. Make it more comfortable and interesting than just a bus. Something like this (stolen from the Tokyo Disney Monorail):

A benefit for Disney is that it would also be cheaper to operate long term. It would also get people out of rental cars which we all know Disney wants. If more people have the opinion that the busses are a hassle and rent cars they will lose business in both park tickets and food and merchandise. They spent over $1B on magic bands and part of the goal of that project is to keep people on property. This would cost less than $1B

 

[rael ramone]

Or they can do what GOOD mass transit systems do and place displays which show the current ETA of the vehicles so you can decide whether alternate means would be a better choice,

With everything needing a 'reservation' now, this would be very helpful to drive home the point to guests to plan 'lots' of travel time to make it in time for their 'experience' or their princess breakfast.

But more important to the mouse - alternate means open up choices to the guest that involve other entities getting the tourist dollar.

 

[Cesar R M]

Oops...

pretty sure that was expected.
The movie looked BAD.. reaaally bad.

The difference with light rail is that it doesn't need to stop for traffic lights, cars or traffic. It would make more stops than the bus does, but it would make up time by being a more direct route with no traffic related stops. If the system is run properly it's a lot more predictable than busses too. You would still need to wait for the train, but at least you wouldn't have that unknown of will the wait be 10 minutes or 40. The ride would be more enjoyable too for most guests. Make it more comfortable and interesting than just a bus. Something like this (stolen from the Tokyo Disney Monorail):

A benefit for Disney is that it would also be cheaper to operate long term. It would also get people out of rental cars which we all know Disney wants. If more people have the opinion that the busses are a hassle and rent cars they will lose business in both park tickets and food and merchandise. They spent over $1B on magic bands and part of the goal of that project is to keep people on property. This would cost less than $1B

wasn't this was discussed already?
that the systems (size wise) are different and could need a major revamp on all the pillars and stations at WDW?

 

[ford91exploder]

Over the years, I have watched bus service deteriorate to the point where it is a major source of frustration. Every time, I tell myself "Next time, I'm renting a car." The minute I do that, I no longer have an incentive to stay on property. Or to eat all my meals there. Or to not visit other Orlando attractions.

Frankly, every time I think about taking a Disney World vacation, I think about the nightmare bus rides I endured on our last two trips. It's one of the reasons I keep putting off our next Disney World vacation.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the poor bus service has cost Disney some of my money. And will likely cost them much more in the future. It will be one of the things that will contribute to Disney losing my business entirely if they don't turn things around.

Exactly used to take the ME/Disney Buses up to about 2011 - Now DVC is a base for me since always have a car

 

[ford91exploder]

With everything needing a 'reservation' now, this would be very helpful to drive home the point to guests to plan 'lots' of travel time to make it in time for their 'experience' or their princess breakfast.

But more important to the mouse - alternate means open up choices to the guest that involve other entities getting the tourist dollar.

On the mouse point, true to an extent if you read alternate as car, However if traffic is jammed due to accident on World drive, one might grab EPCOT bus and grab monorail to the MK and the monitor could even SUGGEST that.

 

[GoofGoof]

pretty sure that was expected.
The movie looked BAD.. reaaally bad.



wasn't this was discussed already?
that the systems (size wise) are different and could need a major revamp on all the pillars and stations at WDW?

The picture of the Tokyo Disney monorail is just an example of how the train cars could be themed to be appealing to guests. The monorail itself is too expensive to expand. A simple, ground level light rail system is what I'm suggesting. You save on the costs of elevated tracks and the elevated stations which are really expensive. If you use "light rail" technology then you keep the power source overhead which eliminates the safety issue around having the electrified third rail of a standard electric train. You may need a few overpass bridges and some ground leveling, but it would be way cheaper than a monorail.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Quoting for truth. This is exactly the problem.

Well, that and when the bus finally arrives 20-45 minutes later (remember when 20 minutes was the average and not a short wait?) you have to wait while they load up all the scooters and then it's standing-room only and you may be at the mercy of strangers to get your small children a seat. As a healthy male, I know I will never sit on a Disney bus unless it is in the afternoon when the buses aren't packed. Every morning and evening, I'm going to stand. The best I can do is hope for a relatively short wait and that the people packed like sardines around me have bathed and used deodorant.

I can see that a lot of you disagree with me. OK, I guess I'm a little dense but wouldn't all that stuff happen even with light rail. Scooters, wheelchairs will still need to have access. There will still be a mad rush to get the best seat and get their children seated. The difference, if any, is once the doors close they are on their way. Why am I envisioning a number of people, not used to light rail, falling, suing Disney, etc. Bathing and deodorant use will not improved due to trains, in fact the idea the hundreds more will be crammed in there with you, is kinda scary. I can't help but think that if Disney thought for a second that it would be more economical to operate, we would be currently riding the trains as we speak.

I have only stayed onsite once but my decision to do that had nothing to do with whether or not I had a car, the cost per night was the distinguishing factor in that decision. When I did stay on once I used the bus one day to see what it was like. It sucked, but, it wasn't worse than any other mass transit, I just couldn't believe how long it took to get anyplace. And that was with nothing extraordinary going on. I guess when one is driving the bus, the time factor is much less then if one is a passenger. The remainder of the trip I used my car (a rental that year) and had a much less frustrating experience.

 

[stevehousse]

Which ones? BLT/Contemp did not have in Dec

I know for sure they have it at Grand Florodian but not sure where else...

 

[ford91exploder]

The difference with light rail is that it doesn't need to stop for traffic lights, cars or traffic. It would make more stops than the bus does, but it would make up time by being a more direct route with no traffic related stops. If the system is run properly it's a lot more predictable than busses too. You would still need to wait for the train, but at least you wouldn't have that unknown of will the wait be 10 minutes or 40. The ride would be more enjoyable too for most guests. Make it more comfortable and interesting than just a bus. Something like this (stolen from the Tokyo Disney Monorail):

A benefit for Disney is that it would also be cheaper to operate long term. It would also get people out of rental cars which we all know Disney wants. If more people have the opinion that the busses are a hassle and rent cars they will lose business in both park tickets and food and merchandise. They spent over $1B on magic bands and part of the goal of that project is to keep people on property. This would cost less than $1B

Did anyone else notice how well dressed these Disney patrons are compared to the WDW crowd, I'm frequently mistaken for a CM because I wear khakis and a collared shirt... depressing thought I always need to point out that CM's have this little oval badge...

 

[ford91exploder]

I know for sure they have it at Grand Florodian but not sure where else...

GF is the ONLY place I have heard about this system being in place, was hoping for other locations

 

[ford91exploder]

The picture of the Tokyo Disney monorail is just an example of how the train cars could be themed to be appealing to guests. The monorail itself is too expensive to expand. A simple, ground level light rail system is what I'm suggesting. You save on the costs of elevated tracks and the elevated stations which are really expensive. If you use "light rail" technology then you keep the power source overhead which eliminates the safety issue around having the electrified third rail of a standard electric train. You may need a few overpass bridges and some ground leveling, but it would be way cheaper than a monorail.

You could even use a DIESEL locomotive and not need power distribution which would cut initial cost to 1-5M per mile. There a a fair number of light rail systems which use diesel power as well, MBTA commuter rail is an example.

 

[GoofGoof]

I can see that a lot of you disagree with me. OK, I guess I'm a little dense but wouldn't all that stuff happen even with light rail. Scooters, wheelchairs will still need to have access. There will still be a mad rush to get the best seat and get their children seated. The difference, if any, is once the doors close they are on their way. Why am I envisioning a number of people, not used to light rail, falling, suing Disney, etc. Bathing and deodorant use will not improved due to trains, in fact the idea the hundreds more will be crammed in there with you, is kinda scary. I can't help but think that if Disney thought for a second that it would be more economical to operate, we would be currently riding the trains as we speak.

I have only stayed onsite once but my decision to do that had nothing to do with whether or not I had a car, the cost per night was the distinguishing factor in that decision. When I did stay on once I used the bus one day to see what it was like. It sucked, but, it wasn't worse than any other mass transit, I just couldn't believe how long it took to get anyplace. And that was with nothing extraordinary going on. I guess when one is driving the bus, the time factor is much less then if one is a passenger. The remainder of the trip I used my car (a rental that year) and had a much less frustrating experience.

The stations would be even with the train opening so you wouldn't need a ramp to load scooters or wheelchairs. It would save a ton of time on loading. I'm not sure how there would be any less of a safety issue. Cramming tons of people on a bus is less safe than on a train. The biggest difference is if some tourist in a rental car cuts off the bus and he has to jam on the breaks people go flying. The train would only stop at the stations and would have a gradual slow to a stop. They have a monorail system now that operates in a similar way and there are not masses of lawsuits over it. People pay a premium to be on the monorail loop so they don't have to take busses.

The operating costs would be lower, but there is still the initial upfront investment. That's what stops them from doing it.

 

[ford91exploder]

The picture of the Tokyo Disney monorail is just an example of how the train cars could be themed to be appealing to guests. The monorail itself is too expensive to expand. A simple, ground level light rail system is what I'm suggesting. You save on the costs of elevated tracks and the elevated stations which are really expensive. If you use "light rail" technology then you keep the power source overhead which eliminates the safety issue around having the electrified third rail of a standard electric train. You may need a few overpass bridges and some ground leveling, but it would be way cheaper than a monorail.

We are TOLD the monorail is too expensive to expand, but maintaining a ground level rail line is also expensive as it requires constant maintenance they are also subject to collisions with local wildlife Deer will browse in the rail RoW and the gators may sun themselves on the roadbed.

Monorails are heavy on CAPEX - much lighter on OPEX, Light Rail - heavy on OPEX light on CAPEX.

 

[flynnibus]

The picture of the Tokyo Disney monorail is just an example of how the train cars could be themed to be appealing to guests

That would be decorated.. not themed.

 

[rael ramone]

I've thought about EPCOT more than any other Disney park over the years. Mostly because it used to be my favorite theme park on the planet and now it is far from that. Here's part of what I think happened. There are several posters on here (@lazyboy97o comes to mind) who seem to be quite adept at analyzing large societal trends and then inferring how it impacts theme parks. I'm not. However, I grew up near WDW and probably went to EPCOT 87 gazillion times between opening in 1982 and 2000. I still go, but now I live far away. Anyway, when the park opened, a LOT of people didn't like it. That view of EPCOT persisted for several decades. I think the suits decided to add some Disney style thrill rides (M:S, TT, Soarin') and a few things for the younger set (Entirety of the Seas overlay, infusion of characters throughout the park). They also added an officially sanctioned massive party (Food and Wine) which had the impact of creating a whole subculture (drinking around the World). Now, the big question is this - Is EPCOT more appealing to the general public? I think it is, but not a whole lot. It is a LOT LESS appealing to the original fan base though. They really underestimated the popularity of the two big subtractions (Horizons, WoM) and miscalculated the impact of the bastardization of Imagination. Here is where I think they really missed the boat. A lot of the high school kids who LOVED the 80's/90's EPCOT have grown up to be computer geeks, scientists, accountants, engineers, M.D.'s, mathematicians, etc. We've got cash and if they hadn't diluted the park so much it would be spent. Now, what would've happened if they had added without subtracting? We'll never know.

Aspirational, and yet Accessible.

WDW of the past, and EPCOT Center in particular.

The Living Seas was a several hour attraction for me, for instance.

Perhaps the last morsel of that original park (on the Future World side) is the Behind the Seeds Tour. The slight (for Disney standards) upcharge keeps out those who aren't interested. (Those who still visit who miss the park as it used to be need to spend the 1 to 1 1/2 hours it takes to do that tour.)

World Showcase has done relatively better. Many countries are enjoyable just to hang around (the Chinese CM's do their own cleaning). World Showcase Players is still a gem. Marrakesh for lunch is mandatory (and available as a walk-in). Impressions de France hasn't been cut in 2/3 and had the remaining run-time filled with a has-been actor. I'm even a fan of the Norway film - as is (including the ancient computer).

Some of the replacements are good even if inferior to what they replaced. Things that were worth waiting in line for were replaced with things that are pleasant - if it's a walk on. The majesty of SSE was minimized by the bad reading by Judi Dench (you have the only older actress not named Meryl Streep that can score multiple Oscar Nom's - don't let her bring the gravitas that she is so capable of - make her read the cards like she's talking to a 4 year old), but not destroyed.

My battery is about to die so I'll stop here....

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It's seams like every day on twitter I see another missing or broken effect fixed at DLP. The popcorn lights on the DL hotel, the "boiling water" on the Discoveryland falls, the upper deck of the Molly Brown (with all it's lights fixed and new paint on the boat dock).

You have no idea how much I wish it were the same with WDW.

 

[GoofGoof]

That would be decorated.. not themed.

Probably. I'm not even talking about the Toy Story "stickers" on the ceiling. I'm more looking at the Mickey head windows and handles for holding that let you know that you are on a Disney train and not just your local subway.