The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[Cody5242]

Recall that the original plan for a New Fantasyland had a pricetag of close to a billion dollars and would have encompassed the entire land. We got the value engineered version.

First time hearing this. Are you allowed to go into detail about what would would of came out of a full blown New Fanatasyland?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I can't believe obese people still hold such a fascination for you all.

I mean really this is borderline obsessive. Can we please get back to Disney now?

 

[spacemt354]

Alright, I feel the need to chime in to correct the misinformation here, I have a feeling this was just a random act of googling, so since it was brought up...



Actually, that's the very nature of Prader Willi syndrome. Individuals are not "genetically fat", they are born with a series of malformations, one of which is a moderate to severe mental handicap that prevents them from having any understanding or ability to control their eating habits. They are ALWAYS hungry and will never stop eating. They cannot have ready access to any food and will constantly ask for it. They will eat garbage, literal garbage, so garbage cans have to be locked and barred down as well as kitchen cabinets.

Their obesity is caused by overeating, which might be the opposite point you were trying to make...




Yes you would know. Like Down syndrome - there is a characteristic set of malformations that are readily identifiable. The average obese guest at Disney also does not have a moderate-severe mental handicap (no... don't make me go there!)

1) Not the opposite point I was trying to make. Are you saying they are making a self-conscious decision to eat more because they want to? Because the genetic implications have influenced this action, which was my point.

2) Not even sure where you're going with your second point. But the debate had more to do with broad generalizations of people without knowledge of certain conditions. And I say the debate "had" because it's not worth taking up any more time on, especially if the reactions are going to be hostile because this is a very divisive topic. This is a Disney forum not a cable news show.

and 3) just so you know, this is not misinformation. There's nothing to correct or adjust in terms of the information provided. This is no random search on google. The only reason I had commented in the first place is because I experience these patients while shadowing in hospitals first hand, so I see what they go through and felt the need to chime in because I had a differing viewpoint.

 

[TinkerBelle8878]

Brandon ‏@DCAlover[/U]
WDW CM's are being told that they're not getting new attractions bcuz guests don't have enough time to see the attractions already available

Wait, what? That's ridiculous. Many of us managed all these years before MM+..so perhaps the fault lies there?

 

[Funmeister]

Recall that the original plan for a New Fantasyland had a pricetag of close to a billion dollars and would have encompassed the entire land. We got the value engineered version.

Was that the version with Tink & Friends with the Alice layover instead of circus? or was there another?

 

[spacemt354]

I can't believe obese people still hold such a fascination for you all.

I mean really this is borderline obsessive. Can we please get back to Disney now?

I guess this is also kinda telling about the state of WDW in terms of their parks. Instead of talking about new additions... we instead find it more interesting to discuss Uni's new additions, watch Guardians of the Galaxy, and debate obesity.

 

[WDW1974]

And I can add... it's the exact same with the disabled/austic/etc. Disney's "success" at catering to these audiences lead to such strong numbers and growth of that audience that they had to start creating specific programs just to accommodate the huge growth of that audience.

Disney's tolerance and inclusion policies predate GAC/DAS/double-wide ECVs/etc

Absolutely. The question is really whether Disney is helping these folks by enabling them (to continue to act in a way that will lead to higher costs for all of us in society, a lower quality experience at WDW, and -- for the obese -- much greater chance of serious ailments and early death) ... or is it simply helping its bottom line?

The 'my autistic 8-year-old can't wait in any lines' deal got so played by cynical, immoral, simply bad people that it became a much more serious 'stealing soda' deal thanks to the 'net and Mommy Bloggers. Disney originally was absolutely trying to do the right thing for the right reason and it still bit them on their collective arses. ... I have no doubt that Disney was trying to do the right thing here again, but it has turned into catering to people who have a problem that probably at least 90 percent of them is simply a matter of addiction.

Why is this an OK addiction, but others are not? ... Oh yeah, this one pumps millions of dollars into TDO's coffers annually.

 

[BrianLo]

1) Not the opposite point I was trying to make. Are you saying they are making a self-conscious decision to eat more because they want to? Because the genetic implications have influenced this action, which was my point.

It doesn't support the argument that obesity is caused by genetics and not overeating/exercise for the majority of North Americans. Prader Willi individuals are obese because they overeat, they overeat because they have a mental handicap that causes them to be compulsive eaters. If allowed they would overeat until they vomit and likely eat their own vomit. If 100% diet regulated they will not be morbidly obese, but that's extremely hard due to temperament that accompanies the syndrome.

Genetics accounts for the 15-20 pounds some people have over peers. The rest is all diet and exercise 'choices'. Be that inherent sociological, motivational, educational, stress related... what-have you problems. But ultimately it's all down to diet and exercise. I understand realistically with the North American lifestyle individuals will have issues with obesity, it's part of the societal norms, but it is still ultimately life choices that are consciously or in most cases subconsciously being made.

Genetics do not make you morbidly obese.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

There was a piece of art that showed a canal and boat passing through the Little Mermaid area, said to be an early concept form of the Fantasyland expansion. Would that have been part of the non-value engineered land?

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/unseen-little-mermaid-artwork.850693/

EDIT- Though even in a near final version of the expansion, the concept art showed a much more elaborate Mine Train with better theming plus a longer track that weaved in and out of the mine scene much more (probably with more show scenes). So even then the plans were probably further value engineered...

 

[BrianLo]

2) Not even sure where you're going with your second point. But the debate had more to do with broad generalizations of people without knowledge of certain conditions. And I say the debate "had" because it's not worth taking up any more time on, especially if the reactions are going to be hostile because this is a very divisive topic. This is a Disney forum not a cable news show.

and 3) just so you know, this is not misinformation. There's nothing to correct or adjust in terms of the information provided. This is no random search on google. The only reason I had commented in the first place is because I experience these patients while shadowing in hospitals first hand, so I see what they go through and felt the need to chime in because I had a differing viewpoint.

Sorry, just so you know none of this was meant to be directly or maliciously targeted towards you. I just wanted to make sure people had a proper clinical picture of the disease since you brought it up. There is a lot more to Prader Willi than a chromosomal deletion/maternal methylation leading to obesity. The syndrome carries a lot of other issues and malformations as I'm sure you are very aware of from your experience, but others on here wouldn't be.

 

[WDW1974]

You're missing the point. The point is that you don't know who has it and who doesn't. So why judge? If you meet someone who is obese and acts as if things are entitled to them...treat that on a case by case basis. Don't generalize.

Also edit: If Prader-Willi Syndrome is not enough for you..maybe this article and comments will attest more to what I'm trying to convey. http://healthland.time.com/2013/07/19/news-genes-idd-in-obesity-how-much-of-weight-is-genetic/

The points that should be focused on are:

1.) the vast majority of morbidly obese people (well over 90%) are there because they eat too much and move too little; and

2.) Disney has opted to take advantage and enable these people as a group for financial gain. Why do you think there are Disney-printed lists of ECV vendors at the front desks of all its resorts (don't believe UNI has this)?

Let's not talk about a tiny minority of folks that are the exception and not the rule because it makes us all feel better when we grab a lunch at Burger King and watch The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills instead of exercising.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's amazing how many medical doctors and experts in genetics we have posting on these boards. Who would have known

There was a piece of art that showed a canal and boat passing through the Little Mermaid area, said to be an early concept form of the Fantasyland expansion. Would that have been part of the non-value engineered land?

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/unseen-little-mermaid-artwork.850693/

That does look pretty cool.

They did manage to work in some waterfalls and nice rock work.

 

[WDW1974]

How much does the tool that tries to brainwash the rest of the CMs haul in? $100k?

Are you talking about Dr. Blondie. Even with her PhD, you can bet she isn't touching $75,000. Seriously. Disney is sooooo cheap.

You can tell by the 'talent' they have in the ranks.

 

[BrianLo]

1.) the vast majority of morbidly obese people (well over 90%) are there because they eat too much and move too little.

It's 100%... it is physiologically impossible to become morbidly obese with proper calorie restriction and exercise. Your body cannot just create nutrition out of thin air.

There are many, many, many social, psychological, societal, motivational, emotional, physical etc. (and yes genetic!) issues that could prevent people from living a healthy active lifestyle. I don't deny it!

But... Energy Intake - (Basal + Cardiovascular Metabolic demand) = calories retained... that's it.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It's amazing how many medical doctors and experts in genetics we have posting on these boards. Who would have known

While I can't confirm other's educational or employment backgrounds, information on obesity is widely published (such as here and here) and the concepts are fairly consistent across studies. A sedate lifestyle and poor dieting are the main causes for people being overweight, and proper diet and exercise are good lifestyle choices for all, regardless of age or current health condition.

I'm not sure why the topic is so "devisive". No one in their right mind would advocate for it, or wish it on others. So why is it so hard to discuss? I think the problem there comes from encouraging others to make lifestyle changes without sounding mean (fat shaming) or elitist ("well if you only dropped $1,000 a year on Under Armour and gym memberships and ate an extreme-vegan diet..."). People can do better from that, and while body image issues are a real concern (especially for youth) everyone should make the best choices they can for their personal health and find whatever support system works best for them.

And no, "Diet" Coke is not all that much better for you.

Edit: There's also a danger in people looking for and expecting instant results. That's another problem, and why support networks and education are important.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't give the opinions of those who belittle HKDL much weight. I really enjoyed the place last year (it's no Tokyo...but what is?) and I'm putting my money where my mouth is: planning a return visit. The additional plans beyond what has been announced are no surprise, and that resort has a layout that's really conducive to expansion. The immediate future and the next 5 years (at least) there are very bright.

Right now I have far more interest in the three Asian resorts than either of the US ones.

Oh goodie, another convert. The evil jar is filling up ...

HKDL is truly a wonderful place to visit in an amazing city. I would never tell anyone to take a trip to HK just for that (it is a two day experience at most right now), but I would tell anyone headed to the city and a theme park fan to visit. I can't wait to return.

Seriously, it does bring joy to hear that because I remember back in 2008 when I first heard of this @WDWFigment character here and he was addicted to WDW pixie dust. I still recall some trip report where you were talking about how great average dining locations were (Le Cellier and Kona Cafe come to mind ...although they used to be better!)

Now having your own Disney site and being a fairly well-respected voice, I think it's great that you espouse the virtues of Disney's Asian parks and, now, the DCL.

I really want to see you visit UNI ... and it wouldn't kill you to hit BGT and SW too!

WDW won't get better when social media is completely loaded with folks like Mongello who will always state BS such as 'WDW has never been better!' to their flocks. It might get better when folks in the community flat out tell their readers to skip WDW ... save and go to Asia ... take a cruise ... or spend a day or two at WDW as part of a UNI/FL vacation.

BTW, are you attending the WDW whorefest April 30th-May 2nd (feel free to answer this in private if you desire)?

 

[BrianLo]

It's amazing how many medical doctors and experts in genetics we have posting on these boards. Who would have known.

I'm in Medical School and am in my 11th year of post-secondary education. I'm not an expert but I've actually done a project on Prader Willi. That's why I chimed in.

Rarely is my education relevant to a WDW board... but there ya go.

(I know that was supposed to be snarky).

 

[WDW1974]

First time hearing this. Are you allowed to go into detail about what would would of came out of a full blown New Fanatasyland?

Well, there would have been more new attractions including an E-Ticket. And every part of the land would have been reskinned, so there would be one cohesive look instead of the 4-5 that are there now.

Oops, think I just missed another night of NBC's Tape Delayed Olympics.

And congrats to one of my favorite fanbois who had an American gold medalist visit his workplace today. I want to hear all about it!

 

[Funmeister]

Well, there would have been more new attractions including an E-Ticket. And every part of the land would have been reskinned, so there would be one cohesive look instead of the 4-5 that are there now.

Oops, think I just missed another night of NBC's Tape Delayed Olympics.

And congrats to one of my favorite fanbois who had an American gold medalist visit his workplace today. I want to hear all about it!

In the artwork that was posted a few messages ago...do you know if the canal boats would have tied in to the moat around the castle that the swan boats used to sail?

 

[WDW1974]

I can't believe obese people still hold such a fascination for you all.

I mean really this is borderline obsessive. Can we please get back to Disney now?

Sorry, but no. ... I have yet to see a discussion on the topic of Disney and this ever-expanding group and how the company has made certain business decisions. If you don't like it, then just like any other topic or posts, don't waste your time. I don't join in 99% of discussions on this site (about 85% I have no interest in ... the rest I just don't have time for), but I don't join discussions to tell people what they should or shouldn't talk about. Sorry!