The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Was that the version with Tink & Friends with the Alice layover instead of circus? or was there another?

That was part of it. I honestly don't recall if that was what was cut out of the original greenlit project or just the original that was never approved.

(yes, the project was cut significantly AFTER they decided to go ahead ... and I am not talking about the coaster replacing a pair of meet and greets!)
 

spacemt354

Chili's
It doesn't support the argument that obesity is caused by genetics and not overeating/exercise for the majority of North Americans. Prader Willi individuals are obese because they overeat, they overeat because they have a mental handicap that causes them to be compulsive eaters. If allowed they would overeat until they vomit and likely eat their own vomit. If 100% diet regulated they will not be morbidly obese, but that's extremely hard due to temperament that accompanies the syndrome.

Genetics accounts for the 15-20 pounds some people have over peers. The rest is all diet and exercise 'choices'. Be that inherent sociological, motivational, educational, stress related... what-have you problems. But ultimately it's all down to diet and exercise. I understand realistically with the North American lifestyle individuals will have issues with obesity, it's part of the societal norms, but it is still ultimately life choices that are consciously or in most cases subconsciously being made.

Genetics do not make you morbidly obese.

Genetics have a role. that's been my point all along and I haven't advocated anything other than that. Wether it be 1% of the population or 99% of the population (it's not) I felt as if people were trying to overlook this factor. It does have serious implication.

It's not an apology to all obese people. Coddling happens too much in this nation. I'm not advocating an excuse for people to ride around in ECVs so that the Magic Kingdom can turn into the Daytona 500. But I cannot control what other people do. And I also can't judge others because I know that these conditions exist and who knows if they guy someone nicknames "fatty" has a medical condition.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Genetics have a role. that's been my point all along and I haven't advocated anything other than that. Wether it be 1% of the population or 99% of the population (it's not) I felt as if people were trying to overlook this factor. It does have serious implication.

It's not an apology to all obese people. Coddling happens too much in this nation. I'm not advocating an excuse for people to ride around in ECVs so that the Magic Kingdom can turn into the Daytona 500. But I cannot control what other people do. And I also can't judge others because I know that these conditions exist and who knows if they guy someone nicknames "fatty" has a medical condition.

Perfect, I'm pretty sure we are on the same page. My argument was that genetics are not the only role (even with major syndromes), and in the majority of cases they play a very, very small role. But, yes a role they play!

I agree with all the social parts of your argument too, but I was steering clear of those conversations. They are more subject to opinion and thus get heated (as we've seen). Scientific facts I can do!
 

spacemt354

Chili's
The points that should be focused on are:

1.) the vast majority of morbidly obese people (well over 90%) are there because they eat too much and move too little; and

2.) Disney has opted to take advantage and enable these people as a group for financial gain. Why do you think there are Disney-printed lists of ECV vendors at the front desks of all its resorts (don't believe UNI has this)?

Let's not talk about a tiny minority of folks that are the exception and not the rule because it makes us all feel better when we grab a lunch at Burger King and watch The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills instead of exercising.

Yes, the conversation was fixated on a specific, which was the reasoning for my replies.

I never claimed the overwhelming majority had these medical conditions. They don't. But that was never my contest. It was just simply to not judge others, which may sound too much like a Mr. Rodgers lesson, but I digress. Nevertheless it was not contesting the points you had made.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Genetics have a role. that's been my point all along and I haven't advocated anything other than that. Wether it be 1% of the population or 99% of the population (it's not) I felt as if people were trying to overlook this factor. It does have serious implication.

It's not an apology to all obese people. Coddling happens too much in this nation. I'm not advocating an excuse for people to ride around in ECVs so that the Magic Kingdom can turn into the Daytona 500. But I cannot control what other people do. And I also can't judge others because I know that these conditions exist and who knows if they guy someone nicknames "fatty" has a medical condition.

I'd like to dead end the direction you are headed, though. I haven't read one post calling people names, even something like 'fatty' ... that type of stuff has no place anyway.

And I'm truly sorry to the tiny minority of people with REAL medical conditions, but when the vast majority do not, you have to be realistic about how you view the issue and how you frame it.

WDW Co. is an enabler of behavior that ends with premature death. I don't particularly think that's cool and that is more of an issue than seeing folks with folds of hanging flesh and not finding it very attractive.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
That was part of it. I honestly don't recall if that was what was cut out of the original greenlit project or just the original that was never approved.

(yes, the project was cut significantly AFTER they decided to go ahead ... and I am not talking about the coaster replacing a pair of meet and greets!)

It was never approved.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
It doesn't support the argument that obesity is caused by genetics and not overeating/exercise for the majority of North Americans. Prader Willi individuals are obese because they overeat, they overeat because they have a mental handicap that causes them to be compulsive eaters. If allowed they would overeat until they vomit and likely eat their own vomit. If 100% diet regulated they will not be morbidly obese, but that's extremely hard due to temperament that accompanies the syndrome.

Genetics accounts for the 15-20 pounds some people have over peers. The rest is all diet and exercise 'choices'. Be that inherent sociological, motivational, educational, stress related... what-have you problems. But ultimately it's all down to diet and exercise. I understand realistically with the North American lifestyle individuals will have issues with obesity, it's part of the societal norms, but it is still ultimately life choices that are consciously or in most cases subconsciously being made.

Genetics do not make you morbidly obese.

If you plot the adoption of HFCS as a replacement for sugar with the increase in median weight for americans you will find they track almost exactly. The 'problem' is while the brain has receptors for glucose which release leptin or the 'satiety hormone' when levels in the blood are in the 'normal' range. Fructose was evolved by plants so animals would eat lots of them and spread their seeds. This works OK when eating the actual fruit eat too much and get a bellyache.

This is NOT the case when consuming calorie dense foods or drinks, Experiment here get a gallon of "Simply lemonaide" which is lemon juice/sugar/water and a gallon of Minute Maid Lemonaide which is Lemon Juice/HCFS/Water. On separate warm days see how much you can drink, for the Simply lemonaide most people will be able to drink 2-3 'Red Solo Cups' before feeling 'full'. The Minute Maid most people will drink till its gone because their is no trigger to release leptin.

The great irony here is only in the US is HFCS used in EVERYTHING and it causes a public health issue, The Irony being that food producers use it because of the US Govt sugar subsidy which makes sugar 3-5x as expensive in the us as the rest of the world.
 

HenryMystic

Well-Known Member
There is a key word in your sentence...

Unless there were major changes in the last year or so, the figures are not going to impress me.
Oh who and what to believe? Oh yeah, I know, Lee and logic.

Why do people keep overhyping and creating unrealistic expectations for this attraction? It won't do anyone any good. Eventually this thing will open and the truth can't be hidden and manipulated anymore.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
...This is NOT the case when consuming calorie dense foods or drinks

Absolutely. It's terrifying how many calories one can consume in liquid form without realizing it. These are all driven by regulation and political bodies of course. Education and finances really affect the average American consumer as they may not know better, or really can't afford to make healthier choices.

Also in case anyone is wondering, aspartame is really not the devil they made it out to be in the 90's. There is no way one can consume enough to have toxic effects. If you are going to consume sugary drinks, at least do diet.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Also in case anyone is wondering, aspartame is really not the devil they made it out to be in the 90's. There is no way one can consume enough to have toxic effects.

For anybody truly concerned about their health and aspartame, please ignore what @BrianLo just said and read this.

Excitotoxins are chemicals either added to food or found in food that cause an overstimulation of the nervous system which can cause the cells to be destroyed. These chemicals are found in almost all processed foods. The most common excitotoxins are aspartame (an artificial sweetener) and monosodium glutamate (commonly known as MSG). The way they cause damage to the body, in a nut shell, is these chemical stimulate glutamate receptors, part of the nerve complex that is stimulated by glutamate, an amino acid, and aspartic acid, which is found in aspartame. If these receptors get overexcited, the nerve cells can virtually excite themselves to death. These receptors are found abundantly in the brain, but are also found throughout the body. Glutamate is one of the most abundant neurotransmitters (chemicals that make nerves function) in the brain, it is used to keep the brain alert. The glutamate receptors play a role in learning, memory, the endocrine system control and emotions. When we get too much of it that is when the nerves become overexcited and can start to malfunction.

Please, @BrianLo , tell me how it is not the "devil" they make it our to be. - Boom...Roasted
 
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BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Please, @BrianLo , tell me how it is not the "devil" they make it our to be.

I really, really regret mentioning that offhandedly. I am off to bed so really don't want to get into a discussion.

Short and long of it is, toxic effects like you mentioned would require one to consume an inordinate amount of aspartame. Everything is toxic with the right dose (yes even water!). Of course I'm not going to trump about how water will kill you, clearly pick water as the healthiest choice. Same goes for aspartame in a sense. It's a cost-benefit that one must weigh. Morbid obesity from excessive calorie intake is going to kill you far faster than aspartame.

I think I aggravated you with my Devil comment, but I will concede it is the lesser of two evils, that's where I was headed.

The moral of the story is don't trust two people jabbering on a WDW message board (I mean me as well).

Everyone should do their own research, which should always involve speaking to experts/physicians, not google searching for whatever someone has posted to the internet. It's full of terrible misinformation.
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
Well, there would have been more new attractions including an E-Ticket. And every part of the land would have been reskinned, so there would be one cohesive look instead of the 4-5 that are there now.

Oops, think I just missed another night of NBC's Tape Delayed Olympics.

And congrats to one of my favorite fanbois who had an American gold medalist visit his workplace today. I want to hear all about it! :):cool::)
Have they cornered themselves in there with fantasyland at this point? Is there no way for them to expand much more now, cause I feel if they were smart they would do a phase 2 (I don't count the mine train as New fantasyland phase 2)! But based off whats been discussed it sounds like they took something that could have been fantastic and on par with anything uni is doing and really valued it down.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Everyone should do their own research, which should always involve speaking to experts/physicians, not google searching for whatever someone has posted to the internet. It's full of terrible misinformation.

That quote was from a very well respected nutritionist/author who practices in the city I live in and is a friend of my father. It was not just googled to respond to you. But yes, people should do their own research and not take your word or mine. I meant no disrespect towards you.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
On another subject, we know that many folks here trust Disney with their private info and feel it is safe (let's forget about Disney using it for reasons that only benefit the company). Well, have any of you been following the huge hacking story (that US media has played down) that took down the Las Vegas Sands Corp for a week?

I have strong belief that it is much deeper than even they are now admitting and is a fact of life in today's 'let's do everything via computers and smart phones' ... I strongly believe the greatest terrorist threat to this country comes from cyber-terrorism and not some crazy Saudis who decide to fly planes into buildings.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/19/las-vegas-sands-hacking_n_4812784.html
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
***...a raccoon??!!??!

Yes, The comic series of Guardians of the Galaxy are quite enjoyable.
while Thor, Captain America and most Marvel chars are battling strictly on earth(and sometimes only in a certain town or area), these guys fight everywhere to save THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE not just one world.

Rocket as a very long story as well... ironically, related to crazy people.

Well, nothing like talking about the fact WDW is ground zero for 500-pounders on vacation (no hate there, just fact) to push this 'wittle thread close to 100 pages. I figure we can top that tonight.

I haven't had time to spend here today, but just skimmed six pages and think @flynnibus actually got the dynamic quite right (be careful, though, he really enjoys being right!)

Flynn used the word 'coddled' to explain the HUGE growth in morbid obese folks vacationing at WDW. Let's not talk about what causes it (the most common and simple reason is the right one: eating huge amounts of unhealthy food and not exercising) ... let's not demonize the people (I don't. I have lost family to this horrible affliction) ... but let's also not justify it and excuse it ('oh, there's some mysterious reason you can't tell for why Melba weights 476 pounds and it has nothing to do with the burger basket she's eating while running folks over on her ECV!') ... and let's instead focus on how it affects WDW and everyone's experiences since Disney has decided to CODDLE these people.

For a company that claims to be interested in healthy eating (yeah, push those grapes or carrots with kiddie meals and people might forget how unhealthy much of your cooking really is!), they make sure that every menu has loads of options for someone looking to have a 3,000 calorie meal.

Why coddle morbidly obese folks? Well, many of them are loaded. Between disability checks and government assistance, they are buying DVC, they are spending weeks a year at WDW and they are eating and drinking their ways around the world. Food addictions are in the same category as booze, drugs, se-x, online, gambling etc. They destroy lives and affect all of us. Do you coddle a meth head? Someone who spends eight hours a day watching online ? How about someone who puts their paychecks into slot machines? Why are food addictions the stuff of ''they can't help themselves'' but someone who is a drug addict is a pariah? I don't care that you may find the above to be provocative. We are almost all adults here and this is a very simple point.

How does it effect you and I?

Well, beyond the tax and societal implications of having a supersized population, it has resulted in massive changes at WDW.

Green spaces, trees and planters have given way to more concrete walkways to allow the people with their ECVs and double wide strollers to navigate the parks. Shops, which at one time you'd be hardpressed to find a small stroller inside, are designed with HUGE empty spaces to make these folks more comfortable when shopping. Often the ECVs and strollers wind up damaging expensive displays or parts of the shops, so they get dumbed down and we all get a lesser experience.

Now, Disney wants to make it easier for ECV users to never get up and hence you have attractions constantly interrupted to load folks in special vehicles or, if they have to get out, stopped to let them on or off. Show quality for all suffers for the few.

ECVs also do a job on resorts. They have filthy wheels that go from theme parks to carpeted hallways and track in who knows what. They are often driven by folks who don't have them at home, so they tend to bump into things (and people) easily. Damage happens. I once saw a woman take a chunk of wall out at either BC or YC while trying to manuever in hallways not built for motorized vehicles.

WDI now designs WDW with larger people in mind. To me, that is the polar opposite of how a socially responsible company should conduct itself. Let's not confuse doing the right thing with doing the politically correct thing. Look at what UNI does. You think ECVs are common in WWoHP's shops? Show quality triumphs over trying to cater to a group.

I really don't wish to have this discussion prattle on while being labeled a 'hater' by folks who can't read the words on their screens or can't digest what is being fed to them. But WDW -- and TWDC -- has made conscious financially based choices to coddle people in a lifestyle that will lead these guests to illness and early death. Those are facts. I don't particularly like that they are. But most of the time (with a few exceptions) I don't help set Disney policy.

You can hate the fat and not the person. And you can understand that Disney's way of dealing with them is yet another way the company makes some of us feel very slimy.

After reading your post, I swear DISNEY CO sort of makes me think they're converting into BUY N'LARGE from WALL-E.
everything designed for fat people, for their strollers to move.. and they will get more and more obese because they can easily get everywhere with a scooter than walking.


Are they seriously trying to impress me with that song for the first trailer of this movie? And then on mute...wait what am I looking at?

The Groot thing looks like an interesting character. What an odd lineup, though.
That is the point, the Guardians are supposed to be a ragtag team to save the galaxy (and universe too)
THE MEMBERS are all of disparate stories, relationships and worlds.
Rocket is from Halfworld, a planet for criminally insane people .. Where rocket was the Security Commander to keep things in shape.
Grooth is from a planet of sentient trees, he's king grooth XVIII I think.
Drax the destroyer's family was murdered by Thanos and was recreated with only one thing on mind.. to kill THANOS.
Gamora was an assassin trained by Thanos himself.
Peter Quill is a half spartoi half human prince. And his father is freaking nutz..

there are other members that have not appeared in the movie, like Mondragon, Mantis, Bug, Cosmo (a Russian dog with telepathic and telekinesis powers), and a Future version of Captain America (Major Victory)


Wait, what? That's ridiculous. Many of us managed all these years before MM+..so perhaps the fault lies there?
I bet they will later shut down the internet services because "so few people used mm+"


I guess this is also kinda telling about the state of WDW in terms of their parks. Instead of talking about new additions... we instead find it more interesting to discuss Uni's new additions, watch Guardians of the Galaxy, and debate obesity. :)
Stagnation always makes people find other venues for entertainment.

If you plot the adoption of HFCS as a replacement for sugar with the increase in median weight for americans you will find they track almost exactly. The 'problem' is while the brain has receptors for glucose which release leptin or the 'satiety hormone' when levels in the blood are in the 'normal' range. Fructose was evolved by plants so animals would eat lots of them and spread their seeds. This works OK when eating the actual fruit eat too much and get a bellyache.

This is NOT the case when consuming calorie dense foods or drinks, Experiment here get a gallon of "Simply lemonaide" which is lemon juice/sugar/water and a gallon of Minute Maid Lemonaide which is Lemon Juice/HCFS/Water. On separate warm days see how much you can drink, for the Simply lemonaide most people will be able to drink 2-3 'Red Solo Cups' before feeling 'full'. The Minute Maid most people will drink till its gone because their is no trigger to release leptin.

The great irony here is only in the US is HFCS used in EVERYTHING and it causes a public health issue, The Irony being that food producers use it because of the US Govt sugar subsidy which makes sugar 3-5x as expensive in the us as the rest of the world.

And it still makes me laugh how the US complains to other countries about their cheaper products as "dumping" (like Mexico's Tuna and Concrete exports being blocked because of "subsidy" and other excuses..)
I suppose its only "free market" when convenient :/


For the Marvel fanbois here, two stories from THR on upcoming projects:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/why-guardians-galaxy-is-riskiest-681656

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/fox-chooses-fantastic-four-reboot-681868

I have to shock everyone here, but Guardians has piqued my interest. Maybe I'm just tired of the endless stream of films with characters I know, but I liked the look and feel of the trailer ...
Agree. imho.. if Guardians of the galaxy pulls a very similar style as the "Fifth element" . It will be a winner!
 

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