The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[GLaDOS]

Potter is the last big gun that Universal has

Oh. Hahahaha. Oh you just wait. This right here is a classic Disney fan counting chickens before they hatch.

Well...some sort of eggs at least...

 

[bhg469]

The problem for WDW today is that there already are signs that they are pushing prices to their limits, without providing a corresponding improvement in content.

The number of empty rooms at WDW is at an all-time high.

In 2013, WDW averaged about 5,700 empty rooms per night.

Excluding DVC, WDW has about 5,700 Deluxe Resort rooms. For some perspective, that means WDW averaged the equivalent of completely empty Grand Floridian, Polynesian, Contemporary, Beach Club, Yacht Club, Wilderness Lodge, Boardwalk Inn, and Animal Kingdom Lodge hotels.

2002 was a horrible year for WDW.

Yet in 2013, WDW averaged 400 more empty rooms per night than they did in 2002.

Empty rooms at WDW have become a major concern.

Let’s look at what has happened to Per Room Guest Spending since then. In 2002, it was $204. In 2013, it was $267. That’s an increase of only 2.5% annually.

The CPI has averaged 2.4% annually over the same period. WDW’s hotel prices have stagnated and yet WDW has a record number of empty rooms.

Now let’s consider what’s happened to ticket prices.

A 4-day ticket was $199 in 2002. In 2013, it was $363, an annual increase of 5.8%. Compounded over 11 years, that's just painful.

Median household income has averaged only 1.7% over that same period.

The cold, hard reality is that when prices increase faster than wages, people have to make choices.

Right now, vacationers are choosing to stay offsite in order to afford WDW’s tickets.

Oh, and to be able to afford their $10.19 Wendy’s quality burger that used to be $7.39 only a few years ago.

International vacationers get a lot of attention right now but 80% of WDW “guests” still come from the U.S.A.

What happens when WDW ticket and food prices continue to increase?

What choice do people make next?

At what point do people decide that a WDW vacation simply isn’t worth it anymore?

At what point does WDW simply become unaffordable for Disney’s core audience?

The point for me is now. The cost vs value has gotten way out of hand and there is no way its ever going down. I know their bread and butter is young families but I am probably going to start a family with my wife in the next few years. I cannot fathom being able to go 5 years from now with prices going up so sharply, nor do I think they will have anything substantial to offer me by then.

 

[rudyjr13]

The problem for WDW today is that there already are signs that they are pushing prices to their limits, without providing a corresponding improvement in content.

The number of empty rooms at WDW is at an all-time high.

Do they shut down parts of the hotels to save money? I had a hard time getting a deluxe room last minute last week due to a canceled flight. They claimed BLT and Contemporary were full.

 

[bhg469]

Oh. Hahahaha. Oh you just wait. This right here is a classic Disney fan counting chickens before they hatch.

Well...some sort of eggs at least...

The more he types, the more I think its a satirical account to mimmick the extreme pixie fluffer. To think that Disney World is better today than it was 10 years ago is a joke. Food, lodging attractions and prices were reasonable at the time.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

Contemporary had a decent sized convention in house last week

 

[tirian]

Do they shut down parts of the hotels to save money? I had a hard time getting a deluxe room last minute last week due to a canceled flight. They claimed BLT and Contemporary were full.

BLT and the Contemporary are almost always full. The Contemp. is the least expensive resort on the monorail circuit, and DVC fills BLT almost a year in advance. Contemp. is also a convention hotel. Many deluxe resorts are difficult to get on weekends because of DCL packages. But those resorts are wide open all week (except for peak seasons).

Another sting in 2013 came from fewer discounts. Disney slashed its percentage of moderate and deluxe rooms available for Cast, bounceback, and other discounts, forcing many Guests to go to value resorts. Rooms that would have otherwise made some money sat empty.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

The point for me is now. The cost vs value has gotten way out of hand and there is no way its ever going down. I know their bread and butter is young families but I am probably going to start a family with my wife in the next few years. I cannot fathom being able to go 5 years from now with prices going up so sharply, nor do I think they will have anything substantial to offer me by then.

This is important. Young families and folks who are planning for families are being priced out/have been priced out and can't imagine what it will cost to take their families on vacation to wdw in a few years from now. Instead of affording a vacation every year it's becoming every few years. Disney should be worried about this. It doesn't seem like they are.

I believe it was @ParentsOf4 who posted a graph showing price jumps versus years and CEOs and in a few years time prices doubled under Iger. I can see at least two more price hikes before he's out of the CEO role but his replacement may be just as ruthless.

My question is this. Who exactly are they targeting, going forward? They obviously don't want the poorer folks nor a good chunk of the remaining middle class (raise your hand and show your age if you remember what that is!) in their parks because if they did, everything wouldn't be as expensive as it is.

Are they looking to push people to spend more "quality time" with their young families...at the beach, or at the local amusement park, because the dream of wdw is no longer attainable and only getting worse? What is the end goal here?

How is it that we can see the death spiral but those who are creating it are completely blind to it?

And what the hell happened to old man disneys vision of family time for everyone?

There will always be folks to replace those so us who can no longer afford to go to the parks, spend nights in the hotels, and eat at their restaurants. But to appeal ONLY to those first timers is a big mistake. Especially when your prices are so high, a lot of would be park goers start weighing out the value of their dollars- parks with no recent additions, expensive hotels, expensive dining, but heavy with popular characters and that "take your child to disney" milestone... Or more affordable hotels, better dining, better value for your dollar, and new attractions added yearly? And if you think I'm talking about just Universal, you're wrong. Local amusement parks are trying to step up their game. Boardwalk entertainments in Jersey, hell even a day at the beach in Florida is becoming more attractive to those watching their dollars nod making them stretch...

And to collect big IPs and do absolutely nothing with them is folly. They're collecting them like monopoly properties but neglecting to charge $400 for landing on park place.

Rant over.

 

[GLaDOS]

The more he types, the more I think its a satirical account to mimmick the extreme pixie fluffer. To think that Disney World is better today than it was 10 years ago is a joke. Food, lodging attractions and prices were reasonable at the time.

Whether they think that or not, assuming that all Universal has is Potter is hilarious. They'll see how much Transformers and Simpsons have boosted Universal Studios Florida this year, and they'll see how much Kong, Jurassic Park, Toon Lagoon's replacement, and KidZone's replacement boost the resort as well.

 

[janoimagine]

Oh, and to be able to afford their $10.19 Wendy’s quality burger that used to be $7.39 only a few years ago.

No offense but I would take a Wendy's burger over the crap that WDW has been serving ... if your going to have 'fast food' as your primary choice for your flagship park at least make it good.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Another sting in 2013 came from fewer discounts. Disney slashed its percentage of moderate and deluxe rooms available for Cast, bounceback, and other discounts, forcing many Guests to go to value resorts. Rooms that would have otherwise made some money sat empty.

How does that make sense? On what spreadsheet did some idiot go, "hurrrr, empty room is better than a cm discount, let's make them stay at value instead!"

I just.. I don't. Ugh.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

No offense but I would take a Wendy's burger over the crap that WDW has been serving ... if your going to have 'fast food' as your primary choice for your flagship park at least make it good.

That burger I had at Epcot was easily the worst burger I've ever had. I would have preferred Wendy's at that point... And I really don't care much for fast food. Learned my lesson, don't eat at QS in Epcot.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That burger I had at Epcot was easily the worst burger I've ever had. I would have preferred Wendy's at that point... And I really don't care much for fast food. Learned my lesson, don't eat at QS in Epcot.

The flipside? That steak that they have at liberty inn is pretty damn good. For QSR.

 

[tissandtully]

That burger I had at Epcot was easily the worst burger I've ever had. I would have preferred Wendy's at that point... And I really don't care much for fast food. Learned my lesson, don't eat at QS in Epcot.

Sunshine Seasons is really the best QS in Epcot. Don't dismiss them all.

 

[71jason]

The LEGO movie made more in its second weekend than the movie's budget.

There is something to be learned in this but few will.

Had Lego Land taken the (temporary) financial hit and built on 192 rather than BFE Polk County, they'd be in the same conversation as MK and IoA right now?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Do they shut down parts of the hotels to save money? I had a hard time getting a deluxe room last minute last week due to a canceled flight. They claimed BLT and Contemporary were full.

Each hotel is expected to optimize operation. House cleaning and other services are staffed based on predicted occupancy levels. As such, each hotel can accommodate only so many guests, even if physical rooms are empty.

WDW has become so obsessed with maximizing operation that they’d rather run the risk of not filling an empty room instead of having additional staff on-hand to support that room on the odd chance that it might get filled.

We’ve seen the same thing happen at Table Service restaurants.

Walk by and there are dozens of empty tables yet ask to be seated and you’ll be told that no tables are available.

The once fabled “Disney Difference” has been replaced by an assembly line approach to operations. Customers are not “guests”; they are raw material on the factory floor.

Just-in-time manufacturing rules at WDW.

“Be our guest” but only if it doesn’t interfere with efficiency.

 

[twebber55]

Sunshine Seasons is really the best QS in Epcot. Don't dismiss them all.

Tangerine cafe is quite good as well

 

[71jason]

Yes, Universal can (and does) use the Avengers characters.
I'm unaware of any restriction that would prevent them from even building an attraction.

They have the right to create a ride using a version of the comic book characters. AFAIK, they do not have the right to use the movie versions of the characters. In other words, an Avengers simulator with cartoons voiced by anonymous actors would be fine, but not one with a live-action film featuring RDJ and Chris Hemsworth.

There's still a lot of grey area there. How much could a cartoon Thor look like Hemsworth? Could Cap's costume be more the "battle gear with helmet" he wears in the movie as opposed to the traditional spandex and wings on the temple look currently featured in the park? Even the line-up--I'm not sure that exact line-up of Avengers ever appeared in the comics, would Universal want to replace Black Widow with Wasp to avoid any issues? I just think an Avengers ride would be trickier than, say, build "Iron Coaster" and call it a day.

 

[doctornick]

At least let's get a ride on the other side. Crazy how the only two rides we have are next to each other and the first two countries going clockwise.

Yeah, putting in one of the long rumored rides in Japan would really help to even things out in the WS.

I've actually previously proposed building a new IASW to the World Showcase (I think next to the International Gateway would be a nice element) which would help with the "WS lacks rides" issue. The current IASW building in FL could then be repurposed for a Tangled boat ride, which would fit in better thematically and be right next to the Tangled bathrooms.

Ugh....ugh....as I type this...Id rather the Carpets be tucked away in Morocco than AVL....(hiding)

I would rather seem them go all out and bring over the Sinbad ride from TDS for Morocco if they want to go that route.

 

[NowInc]

Absolutely insane crowds.

I went to Epcot last night with a sports writer friend. The place was wall-to-wall people. World showcase around 6 o'clock was full. Almost food and wine festival full.

I heard they used every parking lot they have it animal Kingdom yesterday. I had no idea they had a butterfly part of the lot.

Apparently Presidents' Day weekend is coinciding with some winter breaks in the northern states… so not only do we have Argentinian tour groups, cheerleaders, Florida locals here for the weekend, we've got tourists. So yeah.

Not quite Christmas week insanity but very few things are…

You forgot the twirlers that were there all weekend. Was fun avoiding those.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Exactly I find myself out of IOA by 2pm at the latest which is around how long I spend at AK... It's fine though because then I finish off my day at US, but both Uni parks are "half-day" parks in my mind

Is that because you have half a mind?