The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
What about his attitude in the 90's? Call him what you want. You have to give him (and FW) credit for saving the company. Who would you prefer? Eisner or Iger?

The problem was the loss of Frank Wells - The synergy between the two of them made them a successful team, Just like Walt and Roy, Jobs and Wozniak - Like Eisner Jobs went non-linear when Woz left Apple,

Eisner is probably very unhappy with his former protoge, Many of us expected Iger to continue enhancing Disney creative after 'saving' Pixar.

I dont know if Eisner wants a second shot at leadership of TWDC, I do know that Eisner is going to make Iger/Rasulo/Staggs life very interesting. And if Iger wants to make it about 'the numbers', Eisner has him beat there as well.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yes they were. The massive growth became an everlasting expectation and fostered the atmosphere of deeply cutting costs to generate growth that we continue to see today. The success of smaller films grew into the greater demand for triples and home runs that lead to the tent pole only strategy now in place. Things were able to start spiraling out of control in 1994 because of existing, underlying stresses.

Michael was certainly to blame (although I think Frank didn't squash the idea at all) for the creation of Strategic Planning, although my Disney history is a bit rusty right now as it just hasn't been on my mind. Disney was a victim of its own successes in many ways back then. The results were so golden that Wall Street just expected a never-ending stream of ever-increasing profits and that just doesn't happen in a REAL free economy. Ebbs and flows. Ups and downs. Peaks and valleys.

I don't see your point about tent poles because that really didn't start until Iger. Eisner was quite happy with films that were made on modest budgets with talent that wasn't at its peak and could be hired for less. I don't see how his 1980s and 90s strategy led to Iger's 'every film we release must cost at least $200 million and be part of a franchise' strategy.

I don't view 1994 as the time things spiraled down, either. I think because of Frank's tragic passing, folks (mostly in the fan community) like to use it as an arbitrary time when Michael 'lost it' ... as in he was fine that first decade with Frank, but a disaster on his own in that second one. Neither is true. They are just simplistic ways of talking about a complex series of events. One can argue that one of Michael's biggest successes (and legacy's) was in purchasing CapCities/ABC, which brought the ATM machine in Bristol into the Disney fold. Although Frank was in on the talks to buy a network, the trigger was pulled post Wells death.

Part of Eisner's problem in those later years is that he was not thinking very highly of many people. Even outside of Iger, Staggs and Rasulo were able to rise to prominence because of the rise of Strategic Planning.

True enough. I don't know that I have ever heard Michael's feelings on Tom. I have heard his opinions about Jay and they were not high at all. I think 'crude' may have been the best thing Michael ever said about him.
 

TinkerBelle8878

Well-Known Member
Spirited Tuesday Afternoon Musings:


Talking about leaders, Michael Eisner is having fun at WDW with the kids and grandkids and having fun by showing exactly how you'd never see Iger (or Rasulo or Staggs or Crofton or Kalogridis) behaving. I've told you as someone who has had the pleasure of knowing the man that he is real. I think his Tweets show it. ... There is no ulterior motive here, btw. He is enjoying what he created with his family and thumbing his nose at Iger and Co at the same time. ... So to Eisner-hating fanbois I just say LET IT GO!!!

I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but was Eisner shaking his head and muttering "What on earth have they done?" seeing what's become of Future World and well every other section of the parks that has changed for the worst? Pointing out what used to be there with the help of an old map, anniversary book, and youtube?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Michael was certainly to blame (although I think Frank didn't squash the idea at all) for the creation of Strategic Planning, although my Disney history is a bit rusty right now as it just hasn't been on my mind. Disney was a victim of its own successes in many ways back then. The results were so golden that Wall Street just expected a never-ending stream of ever-increasing profits and that just doesn't happen in a REAL free economy. Ebbs and flows. Ups and downs. Peaks and valleys.

I don't see your point about tent poles because that really didn't start until Iger. Eisner was quite happy with films that were made on modest budgets with talent that wasn't at its peak and could be hired for less. I don't see how his 1980s and 90s strategy led to Iger's 'every film we release must cost at least $200 million and be part of a franchise' strategy.

I don't view 1994 as the time things spiraled down, either. I think because of Frank's tragic passing, folks (mostly in the fan community) like to use it as an arbitrary time when Michael 'lost it' ... as in he was fine that first decade with Frank, but a disaster on his own in that second one. Neither is true. They are just simplistic ways of talking about a complex series of events. One can argue that one of Michael's biggest successes (and legacy's) was in purchasing CapCities/ABC, which brought the ATM machine in Bristol into the Disney fold. Although Frank was in on the talks to buy a network, the trigger was pulled post Wells death.

True enough. I don't know that I have ever heard Michael's feelings on Tom. I have heard his opinions about Jay and they were not high at all. I think 'crude' may have been the best thing Michael ever said about him.
That desire to deliver on the unsustainable growth is exactly what I was referencing. Instead of accepting the inevitable slow down as natural and healthy, that desire allowed for cuts to be a means of growth. The tent pole strategy was seen more in animation during Eisner's tenure. I understand it is different than live action with a far more limited set of releases, but like with growth the expectations only grew more and more with each film. It is really all different reflections of the same mindset: bigger, BIGGER, BIGGER.

1994 and Wells' death I consider important because it really showed Eisner's insecurities in terms of others competing for that top spot. I still would like to read Working Together but where I think Eisner and Wells really differed from a Walt and Roy is that Eisner wanted to be both top creative and top executive. He could not always be the one to demand the creative vision because I think he always feared being replaced if the right people lined up against him, much the way the right people lined up against Miller.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
That makes me cringe in the same way that 'Homeland Security' does ... it just isn't something that works the way they think it does. But what do I know? Everyone that posts here must be a loser that wears Mouse Ears daily and gets government disability checks, right?
I still havent got my Disney benefits check yet ;)


You're linking to an article. Getting the title correct isn't plagiarism. However when I changed a title to "Game of Fancy King Chairs" Bantam books still came after me because I kept all the other words the same (well, I did change Eddard to Edward but apparently that wasn't enough).
this suddenly reminds me of the whole "you got rick rolled" that was popular a few years ago.
made that song very popular lol.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
@WDW1974 :

I agree that Eisner was generally better for the company than the management that began in 2005. But in your opinion, what made Eisner go off the deep end in the late 90s into the 2000s? What initiated the cheap-quels, the rise of Strategic Planning, DCA v. 1.0, and the eventual dumbing down of the American parks? In his final days, many big-league players refused to work with him. His early track record was stunning; is he an example of a successful man who believed his own press?


I know people want a simple answer, and it is complicated. But I think I will try here and offer one: insulation.

As Eisner grew Disney it became a far different animal than the small neglected fawn he rescued from the hunters. Instead of a tiny company, Michael was leading a huge corporation that was growing in all sorts of ways from new film banners to new theme parks to all sorts of new business ventures -- some good (cruise line, retail stores, TV networks), some bad (Internet portals, regional entertainment ventures), some in between (sports franchises, animation studios all over the globe).

The bigger Disney grew, the less Michael was able to truly gauge what was going on at the micro level because he was on top and folks always fear the top guy (we have folks here who are afraid to contact George Kalogridis because they think a phone call or an email will result in a lifetime ban from Disney and the FBI coming to their doors!) and because people in every division would only focus on the good things happening. There is an example I'd love to share on just how much Disney execs would lie and cover things up when Michael was around, but I won't because it, frankly, is too valuable to me to place here.

Michael became so insulated. I recall trying to speak to him at a Disney Parks event a few years before he stepped down (now, realize that I knew him, he knew me and my family ... I wasn't a fanboi angered that Disney was closing Horizons. Well, I was but that was another side of me.) and Disney PR and marketing staff literally played keep away with him. They were blocking like they were the freaking Seattle Seahawks. ... So, I saw Jane head to the restroom, parked myself in front with a glass of champagne and waited for her to come out. She saw me, smiled, we chatted and I then escorted her back right through the crowd of 'obstacles', right back to Michael. I watched the then head of DLR PR Dept. seethe and visibly turn red as he shook my hand and greeted me by first name.

Mind you, while people were leaving the company and others who shouldn't have been coming (Mike Ovitz) came, Michael was dealing with health issues, the death of Frank, the ''gall'' of ''the little midget'', the financial troubles with Euro Disney, the delays starting the DCL, park/resort ideas that were met by resistance and fell apart (in California and Virginia) and many other issues that have been detailed in books and online. But Michael was kept in a bubble that, despite what some believe was not self-imposed, largely by his own exec team for their own reasons. I once overheard him talking about DL maintenance issues with another top level exec who is no longer with Disney by saying ''How did this get so bad?''

INSULATION. That's my simple answer. By the time he realized how bad so many things really were, there were no palatable options. He didn't want to leave Disney, even in 2005. But he just had no choice.

When did it start? Probably way back in 1984. But it got serious around 1997 and it never got better. That's why the fanboi in me wishes he would have resigned after opening DAK.

Now ... just to touch on a few things you brought up above.

The cheap-quels were not a terrible idea in and of themselves. And what brought them about was the success of the first few (the first Aladdin one made a boatload of $$$, despite not having Robin Williams back) and the sheer number or artists Disney was employing at the time. They had animation studios from Australia to France back to Japan. Like everything else with Disney (then and now), they went nuts with them, thinking that you could make hundreds of millions on Aladdin 5: Jafar Tours with a Boy Band and Cinderella 11: The Castle Gets a Queen.

Strategic Planning was just a bad move that was en vogue with every 'cutting edge' company in the 90s. If you read some of the corporate drivel, then it didn't sound so bad. It seemed to make sense. It was all about synergies and taking advantage of existing BRAND strengths to grow the business as a whole. But at the end of the day, it was just drivel.

DCA 1.0 ... uhm ... ah ... that's way too long of a topic to even begin. But the best analogy is a snowball starting at the top of a mountain and rolling. And it should have been stopped multiple times before it became an avalanche, but people (often very respected like Marty Sklar and John Hench) were left back in the ski lodge when that little ball started picking up size and steam. DCA 1.0 happened because multiple high level folks at Disney simply wouldn't stand up and say 'This isn't smart and here are all the reasons why!'

Dumbing down of the US parks (more FL)? That came from the whole Strategic Planning mindset. That came from moving folks into the business from hospitality (Lee Cockerell) and retail (Paul Pressler), listening to consultants who came up with new business models (no, why have an antiques store in Liberty Square that can't carry its own financial weight?) that basically pit every location against every other one. Instead of being parts of a show, things like unique merchandise, entertainment, not allowing costumes off property and themed trash cans became 'fat' ... things that could be cut. Disney had so much quality back in the 90s that cutting was easy. It helped the bottom line and didn't hurt quality all that much ... but well, there's only so long that you can play that game. 15-plus years later and they still are following that.

I probably should have just stopped with one word, but I am quite passionate about this particular subject.
 
Last edited:

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Ok, then why is he taking disney selfies in shanghai and touring epcot for all to see? You're implying that he's looking to re-inject himself somehow, but he wont challenge rasulo and staggs if the opportunity prsents?
Color me confused, '74!

And im not being argumentative(sorry if it sounds that way), just literally confused as to what Mikey is up to.

Michael is simply asserting his power. The SDL pics were quite powerful because that resort would never have happened without him, yet Bob wants all the credit for opening China's mainland when he in fact almost blew a decade's worth of negotiations and needed an epic economic crisis to get the Central Government in Beijing to sign a deal with Disney. ... Disney still hasn't put out one photo of Iger at SDL, which shows weakness with Iger and Disney and shows the Chinese are in control. It isn't easy to explain, but I've lived and worked there multiple times and Bob Iger being afraid of his overlords would be the best way of describing things. He doesn't want to do anything that would upset the government because they view the resort as theirs, not Disney's.

Michael has no such concerns.

And, to be clear, I am not implying anything. I am stating that Michael is toying with the folks who run the company because he doesn't like the idea of a Disney future under Rasulo or Staggs. I think you've only seen the first few salvos of what may be a fun social media campaign.

Also, let's be crystal clear again: Eisner doesn't want to return to Disney (he might take a Board seat, but that would never be offered) ... that is not what this is about. This is political. This is agenda driven. This is sorta like why I am here typing and making fanbois cry into their plush.
 
Last edited:

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
Shame on you for jumping down someone's throat even when they corrected you. No, you were biased to jump on me about it. Go back to the original post, notice how there are TWO paragraphs, not one? Then rewind the clock and recall when writing, why do you start a new paragraph?

If you want a simple example of my thought... just look at the shoes that girls wear now. Platform stilettos used to be tramp shoes... now... teenagers wear them.

Knee high boots used to be exotic sexy... now... they are business casual.

Let's not forget... in 1990... this image was supposed to be a hooker...
julia-roberts-pretty-woman.jpg


Looks like a mom picking up dry cleaning these days...

Modern Cinderella...I love this movie.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Not bad. I think that a requirement for the CEO should be an innate understanding of how having the most visited vacation spot on the planet earth reeking of quality impacted the company in positive ways that were both quantifiable and intangible.

Again, I ask, when do you see Bob Iger out and enjoying the Disney parks when there isn't a media opp?

When? ... Oh yeah, you don't because it never happens.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
But isn't that part of your defense mechanisms when you don't want anyone to challenge you or your position? You maintain strength by keeping others down.. even if in your own perception of them.

I don't know. I would never keep good people down because of my own insecurities and failings. I do get that is how things largely work in American business today. ... Maybe that's why I am a Faux Top One Percenter instead of a genuine one.

As to Michael, I am sorta biased and I want to give an honest response. He certainly liked his power and position, that's for sure. And he took threats to that power seriously (yes, Jeff K., I am looking at you). I just don't really know to what extent this was an issue. It existed. It has been overhyped. But it isn't complete BS either.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
Again, I ask, when do you see Bob Iger out and enjoying the Disney parks when there isn't a media opp?

When? ... Oh yeah, you don't because it never happens.

Sure he has. He was there for the opening of Harry Po....wait no. It was the announcement of Cabana Bay hey hey...no..not that one. AH...Cowabunga Dude! The Simpons! He was definitely..not..there for that. Transfor....no. Dispicable NO! Groundbreaking for Diagon(e) forever...nope. Wait a minute..those are all at Universal.

My point is he has not been at a lot of announcements because in order to do so you actually have to have announcements to be made. Four pressers about an overpriced under-whelming New Fantasyland is hardly a photo op. What an assbag.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but was Eisner shaking his head and muttering "What on earth have they done?" seeing what's become of Future World and well every other section of the parks that has changed for the worst? Pointing out what used to be there with the help of an old map, anniversary book, and youtube?

One of my all-time favorite Michael Eisner tales was his response after riding Imagination 2.0 ... and I know it is true because I know the person who rode behind him. Michael was so angry and just yelled ''Where the (f word deleted) did my $53 million go?'' There were other angry comments after but that's the important and telling line.

I can tell you as sure as I am here that if he had known how that disaster would have turned out that we would still have the original (stale, but intact) today.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom