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The Spirited Sixth Sense ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Stitchon
Well-Known Member
There are many people that fraternize with Phillip whom I'd expect more from. It's unfortunate.
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
It runs from here to there with some deviations in between. I find the best practice is to start at the last page and work backwards looking for trends in the topics discussed. When you find the main topic back up six pages to find the chronological beginning.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
You had to be there to understand
Unless you feel like reading 274 pages you are better off skipping back a day or 2 and skimming the topics to get caught up on the current discussion. For me this thread is best enjoyed by checking in at least a few times a week if not every day since topics do change frequently and it's hard playing catch up.
Soarin' Over Pgh
Well-Known Member
I hate to say it but.... I don't think Disney WANTS us to have that level of theme park here.
I don't know what the deal is but I still think it's funds being held back because of NGE.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
I am a huge Star Wars fan, but Potter's places / people / things are every bit as complex. And I don't know how that addresses the issue at hand. Can WDI execute Star Wars adequately in a budget that is of this world.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Iger seems to think so. He wanted avatar and he is getting it. He said he wants Star Wars. Not to mention they bought Lucas film outright and will be making new Star Wars films. Seems like they have some plans.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
Lucasfilm is run by some real professionals. I have no doubt they can give us more Star Wars movies.
Plans for the parks can be good or bad. Contrary to modern Disney fans opinions details DONT make the experience - it has to have substance in its concept. The substance is what is missing from New Fantasyland.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
I think there is plenty of substance there they can work with. Hopefully they can pull it off.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
Agree. Let's hope.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
That's certainly fair, but that's different than saying they aren't able to creatively pull it off. They are still capable... whether they get the budget is a different story. Disney certainly demonstrates they are willing to waste huge amounts of cash though, if only they'd spend it on something worthwhile... In Florida that is.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
Ok, but most high design shops with good designers can design the moon if given some unlimited amount. That just isn't realistic.
Part of being creative is doing it within a reasonable budget, executing something magnificent within constraints. I feel the budgets applied to the last couple WDI creations have been more than enough to accomplish more than they did.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
True. I think New Fantasyland was in some ways not an overspend of resources but a misspend. The end product is certainly pretty and you can obviously tell where money was spent, but it wasn't exactly what we wanted the money to be spent towards (namely headlining attractions). For a similar budget HKDL received its expansion, which has two actual E-tickets attached to it.
They can produce a great product for a ~500 mil budget. While that's still a bloated and expensive dollar figure compared to Universal, Disney drags in money hand over fist. It's not like they can't afford it. If they want to have an "expensive" product (i.e. soaring ticket prices), they need to spend extravagantly.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
I'm in the construction industry. I understand a lot about how private development actually works; how it gets spawned, how it gets funded, and what things actually cost.
Fans need to stop blaming the issues of the lack of development of the parks solely on some mythical bean counter or some high level suit inside the Team Disney Orlando building. It is a complex issue and not one easily solved. As some great posters here have pointed out the culture of the company itself is to blame.
Much of the blame needs to fall squarely on the shoulders of Walt Disney Imagineering. Above everything else I believe the lack of constant attraction development in Disney World over the last ten years is mostly due to the soaring cost and uncontrolled budgets of WDI designed attractions.
When a new attraction does get built it seems to cost 2-3 times what it should if an outside organization were tasked with executing the same thing. So while we expect them to spend extravagantly due to the premium price, we are actually getting half of what we should.
The fans have gotten used to these crazy inflated attraction cost numbers and clamor for the all powerful corporation to pony up more money to make it happen. Face it... If you were running this business you wouldn't build much either since WDI can't seem to deliver market rate attractions.
The system is broken without end in sight. The fans need to stop protecting Imagineering as some sacred cow. Hold them to task. They are ultimately the ones responsible for this.
Fans need to stop blaming the issues of the lack of development of the parks solely on some mythical bean counter or some high level suit inside the Team Disney Orlando building. It is a complex issue and not one easily solved. As some great posters here have pointed out the culture of the company itself is to blame.
Much of the blame needs to fall squarely on the shoulders of Walt Disney Imagineering. Above everything else I believe the lack of constant attraction development in Disney World over the last ten years is mostly due to the soaring cost and uncontrolled budgets of WDI designed attractions.
When a new attraction does get built it seems to cost 2-3 times what it should if an outside organization were tasked with executing the same thing. So while we expect them to spend extravagantly due to the premium price, we are actually getting half of what we should.
The fans have gotten used to these crazy inflated attraction cost numbers and clamor for the all powerful corporation to pony up more money to make it happen. Face it... If you were running this business you wouldn't build much either since WDI can't seem to deliver market rate attractions.
The system is broken without end in sight. The fans need to stop protecting Imagineering as some sacred cow. Hold them to task. They are ultimately the ones responsible for this.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Running with @NoChesterHester 's point, Forbidden Journey's budget was 80-90 million and Little Mermaid's was around 100 million.
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FloridaRes
Active Member
That's the truth! Anytime WDI gets involved in any little thing, like getting a new sign, it costs 10 times as much as it could have from an outside company.
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
Any idea why? This is something I've believed for a long time now and even actual Imagineers I've talked to can't seem to produce a solid answer.
EDIT: Well, that's not true, they did have some answers, and I can share their opinions but I'd like to hear yours first.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
It is not something unique to Disney. It happens in a lot of companies as they grow. They become systematized, bureaucratic and entrenched. This is nothing new either. Bob Gurr cites these sorts of developments as a big reason for his leaving Walt Disney Imagineering decades ago. The obsession with franchises does not help as you now involve even more divisions that have seen similar developments. There is also an opposite distortion in driving prices down based on the outsourcing model where work is done for free in order to secure contracts that @whylightbulb has discussed in the past.
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
Us "fans" are the only ones who really give a damn if the hotel has express or not. I guarantee most booking at Cabana Bay don't even know they are missing out on it.
Even the Uni hotels WITH express, that isn't really a huge reason people stay there. They stay there because they are damn nice hotels right next to the parks.
The GP doesn't know a lot of what they get as far as on-site perks a lot of the time. Even at Disney, it's a pretty small % (compared to the number who stay on property) that actually take advantage of EMH. And if i'm a guest, I don't even know if I see MM+ as a perk for staying at the resorts. To me, a "perk" is normally something extra that you get included and you have the option to choose if you want to take advantage of it. With Disney forcing it on everyone, the option of choosing goes away and (with the system still having issues) can actually become an annoyance.