The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[PhotoDave219]

Random thought: WDW proves the opposite of the point 'You get what you pay for.'

The way that business part of the operation and the mandating of profit margins makes me not want to give the company any money. Makes me not want to visit.

Because as important as the guests (and cast) are, the Wall Street people & the quarterly reports always seem to take prescient.

 

[WDW1974]

Not surprising considering the negativity that wafts out of places like this.

However, I am sure there are people of influence that will see the wisdom of investing in the parks at WDW and will make it happen.

just want to make sure I have this straight since it has been a long day ... but you are suggesting that negative posts on Disney fan site discussion forums is why WDW has been a very stale place since the dawn of the 21st century? That is what it appears. Is that what you mean (feel like I'm interviewing a fanboi that has been touched inappropriately and trying to make positive what I am reading is what you are saying)?

 

[WDW1974]

So BobI pretty much left a major hint at Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford returning for Star Wars Episode VII.

That's pretty much been a given for many months now. They should all be back.

 

[WDW1974]

Looks like I didn't miss much of the webcast...I did leave before it was done, but not before:

Pin Trading Guy...I think he's the one...wants to know when they're going to roll out My Magic Plus and My Disney Experience to Disneyland. The way his voice sounded...well, I think it was almost jealousy.

Here's what I propose...when they send the MSEP back, package up the whole NextGen ball of crap and send it too. Then have DL write WDW a check for it, run like hell to the bank and cash it, and then spend it all on new attractions in DHS and EPCOT.

Yep, I know...never gonna happen. Kinda like the chances of me staying at WDW again for a vacation anytime soon.

No. No. AND HELL NO!!!

WDW has been so screwed up that it will take years, billions and vision to make it shine again.

Why would you ever wish that on DL? I know you are joking, Dave. ... but that's scary stuff!!!

 

[WDW1974]

The day/night views look completely different.

Looks like the accountants looked at the night artwork and told them to go back to the drawing board.

Two different plans. One that was lifted heavily from the HKDL proposal. That is the 'night' version. That isn't what is being built.

Not only that but I see that the Pirates flume ride has been replaced by a standard PotC attraction? But to my limited knowledge there were some pretty big budget cuts right @WDW1974 ?

The flume version was proposed for SDL, but as far as I know it never went far.

And, yes, there have been cuts. Every budget gets cut except for NGE. You all can decide for yourselves why that may be ...

 

[WDW1974]

For as much as you dislike Iger's treatment of the Parks, he has done a lot for the company itself. It is a stronger business today than it was when he took over. While I agree that there are risks to that paradigm, and @ParentsOf4 has an almost religious zeal in pointing them out, everything that is broken now is fixable.

Hopefully in Iger's next act as he cedes control of the CEO chair to someone else, he'll pick a more creative member of the team and continue his strong financial controls.

It's only stronger if you look at the surface and don't scratch it. The foundation is decayed in many areas (much like WDW's parks are ... quick someone, Tweet Dr. Blondie about the Tree of Life crumbling!) ... The business model that Iger and Co are using isn't sustainable. Think about it: they pay their workers nothing, they keep raising prices and cutting quality and they are doing GREAT ... they are making record profits.

But, and I really hope everyone reads this post and lets it sink in, what happens when they finally get a blip in the business? What happens if some evildoers crash a few planes? What happens if the 'economic recovery' lie is shown to largely be just that? What happens if there are weather disasters in the USA? What happens if ... people simply decide that WDW is too pricey? What happens if Disney has 2-3 $200 million writedowns from making every film a tentpole release?

What happens if all sorts of little things just start adding up? You can't cut any more (they'll try, of course). And you can't charge $150 for a day at EPCOT and raise adult drinks to $20 each. You can't cut salaries of people who make $8 an hour. So then what?

I can tell you very simply that if that day comes, Disney will start shedding 'assets' simply to stay above water. I know that fanbois won't let that trickle into their heads (they are too busy clutching Oswald plush while wearing their D23 Dreamfinder tees and drinking out of Orange Bird mugs) but that IS reality.

Cuts won't be closing a dining facility, letting an attraction fall apart or closing marinas. That's all been done when things ostensibly have never been better for TWDC.

No, cuts will be selling Marvel off or Pixar ... or parts (or all) of P&R.

That business model isn't sustainable forever. And Iger only cares about the next 2 1/4 years. After that, the company could crumble and it won't be his legacy.

Oh and I love @ParentsOf4 ... really. Not in the fanboi/Imagineer way, either. I absolutely believe he is looking for employment with his posts here, and I'd hire him ... after I hired myself and @Lee.

EDIT (to add): That said, I agree with everything you wrote except the part of everything being fixable. Sometimes, the damage is just too much, too deep. WDW, for example, is so decayed in quality (if not infrastructure) that Walmart is the rule. I don't see them able to go back to Nordstrom or Saks. Maybe ... maybe they can get back to Macy's.

And, Iger wants his replacement to be either Staggs or Rasulo (whomever survives their duel to the death) and that just can not happen for Disney to ever come close to what it once was. Those guys will continue his policies and the current business model. They absolutely will destroy the company just as all those Wall Street bankers cost the American people trillions of dollars with their Ponzi and other schemes.

 

[WDW1974]

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Fact.

I am looking at catching things much larger than flies. Why would you even want a fly?

 

[FigmentJedi]

Sure, he announced Cars 3 and Incredibles 2. No one should at all be surprised by those.

Cars 3 was a given. The ride's never gonna end with that franchise and the Planes series has pretty much buried DisneyToon's future output with the Tink stuff supposedly ending after Pirate Fairy.

Incredibles 2's been pretty much hyped and built up by the internet to be Pixar's answer to Half-Life 3: Something that was bound to happen sometime, but believed to be highly unlikely to happen any time soon and that's why people are freaking out about it, especially with Brad Bird on board.

 

[Cesar R M]

That's pretty much been a given for many months now. They should all be back.

This video again proves relevant

No. No. AND HELL NO!!!

WDW has been so screwed up that it will take years, billions and vision to make it shine again.

Why would you ever wish that on DL? I know you are joking, Dave. ... but that's scary stuff!!!

You know, the scary part will be when WDW and many sectors of Disney.. reach a level where they CANNOT be fixed without a complete utter expensive rebuild.
Something that will sink Disney's share value and will be blamed to the poor CEO that gets the crumbling kingdom from IGER.

It's only stronger if you look at the surface and don't scratch it. The foundation is decayed in many areas (much like WDW's parks are ... quick someone, Tweet Dr. Blondie about the Tree of Life crumbling!) ... The business model that Iger and Co are using isn't sustainable. Think about it: they pay their workers nothing, they keep raising prices and cutting quality and they are doing GREAT ... they are making record profits.

But, and I really hope everyone reads this post and lets it sink in, what happens when they finally get a blip in the business? What happens if some evildoers crash a few planes? What happens if the 'economic recovery' lie is shown to largely be just that? What happens if there are weather disasters in the USA? What happens if ... people simply decide that WDW is too pricey? What happens if Disney has 2-3 $200 million writedowns from making every film a tentpole release?

What happens if all sorts of little things just start adding up? You can't cut any more (they'll try, of course). And you can't charge $150 for a day at EPCOT and raise adult drinks to $20 each. You can't cut salaries of people who make $8 an hour. So then what?

I can tell you very simply that if that day comes, Disney will start shedding 'assets' simply to stay above water. I know that fanbois won't let that trickle into their heads (they are too busy clutching Oswald plush while wearing their D23 Dreamfinder tees and drinking out of Orange Bird mugs) but that IS reality.

Cuts won't be closing a dining facility, letting an attraction fall apart or closing marinas. That's all been done when things ostensibly have never been better for TWDC.

No, cuts will be selling Marvel off or Pixar ... or parts (or all) of P&R.

That business model isn't sustainable forever. And Iger only cares about the next 2 1/4 years. After that, the company could crumble and it won't be his legacy.

Oh and I love @ParentsOf4 ... really. Not in the fanboi/Imagineer way, either. I absolutely believe he is looking for employment with his posts here, and I'd hire him ... after I hired myself and @Lee.

EDIT (to add): That said, I agree with everything you wrote except the part of everything being fixable. Sometimes, the damage is just too much, too deep. WDW, for example, is so decayed in quality (if not infrastructure) that Walmart is the rule. I don't see them able to go back to Nordstrom or Saks. Maybe ... maybe they can get back to Macy's.

And, Iger wants his replacement to be either Staggs or Rasulo (whomever survives their duel to the death) and that just can not happen for Disney to ever come close to what it once was. Those guys will continue his policies and the current business model. They absolutely will destroy the company just as all those Wall Street bankers cost the American people trillions of dollars with their Ponzi and other schemes.

At this point we can agree that Iger is only focusing on one last grab to get his biggest bonus ever.. then run away and say "sorry folks, not my fault now!" when Disney crumbles and as to sell sections and fire thousands of employees.
I hope he really doesnt pull an ENRON on disney.. making the priced subsections (entertainment + parks) run dry and move the money to the wall street zone only.
and Agree with you on the Ponzi schemes.

 

[SirLink]

Two different plans. One that was lifted heavily from the HKDL proposal. That is the 'night' version. That isn't what is being built.



The flume version was proposed for SDL, but as far as I know it never went far.

And, yes, there have been cuts. Every budget gets cut except for NGE. You all can decide for yourselves why that may be ...

Oh I know why but at a certain point Disney's benefit for better data analytics isn't going to make it worth - when the net result has been costs have went up yet no real profit has been earned.

 

[danv3]

Cuts won't be closing a dining facility, letting an attraction fall apart or closing marinas. That's all been done when things ostensibly have never been better for TWDC.

No, cuts will be selling Marvel off or Pixar ... or parts (or all) of P&R.

At this point, selling off Parks and Resorts to a company that is actually interested in running theme parks is probably the only thing that could reverse the decline. I honestly can't believe we've gotten to a point where I actively hope for P&R to be sold off, but here we are.

 

[RSoxNo1]

As to those questions from the audience, even back in the good old days of shareholder meetings (and I go back to the early Michael and Frank meetings) you'd always get a fair amount of crazies asking questions or making comments that most people have no interest in. But if you had 20 questions, a good 10-12 were always good and meaty and something that the press would be writing about. Now? I don't know the last time I heard a solid question asked in a strong and polite manner. It's been years ...

I would argue that while it was a bit self serving, the guy that talked about the DAS card was a solid question that was fairly concise and well said. I believe you mocked it earlier, but his statement that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction is accurate. Speaking on behalf of my brother, the system in place at Universal is slightly different, but substantially better. The difference is that instead of return times if the wait is more than 10 minutes, it's a return time if the wait is more than 30 minutes.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I hope he really doesnt pull an ENRON on disney.. making the priced subsections (entertainment + parks) run dry and move the money to the wall street zone only.
and Agree with you on the Ponzi schemes.

I'm only quoting this in case something goes down, I want to be in the "I told you so" crowd.

 

[WDWFanDave]

No. No. AND HELL NO!!!

WDW has been so screwed up that it will take years, billions and vision to make it shine again.

Why would you ever wish that on DL? I know you are joking, Dave. ... but that's scary stuff!!!

Yep, nothing but sarcasm there, glad you could tell.

I think I'm about done with all of this. Trip last fall was just disappointment after disappointment at WDW. And I stay connected here hoping, just hoping, to see some real hope for the place. Avatar isn't it, Disney Springs isn't it. Those just aren't going to restore the magic. Without a dramatic shift in the corporate culture, they will indeed hit a 'tipping point' and the way back will be dimly lit, if at all.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit, in the not too distant future, to see rumblings of them completely closing one of the 'gates', under the guise of a complete re-do, only to drag their feet, and leave it a ghost town. If I had to guess, it would be DHS, as the outdoor food and shopping mall known as Epcot likely rakes in far too much cash and profit for that to be on the chopping block, plus they're already working in AK and MK won't go away. And, @WDW1974 I wish I was joking about that part.

One more thing before I go...'74 if you get a chance, can you pull up the PM I sent you last fall and see if you can connect me with someone? I do still have a very bitter taste in my mouth from that trip, and I have a bit more time available since my mom recently passed away and I'd like to follow up more on that. Thanks!

 

[SJN1279]

Wouldn't surprise me a bit, in the not too distant future, to see rumblings of them completely closing one of the 'gates', under the guise of a complete re-do, only to drag their feet, and leave it a ghost town. If I had to guess, it would be DHS, as the outdoor food and shopping mall known as Epcot likely rakes in far too much cash and profit for that to be on the chopping block, plus they're already working in AK and MK won't go away. And, @WDW1974 I wish I was joking about that part.

Not going to happen.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Tim Delaney's HKDL Pirates looked wonderful. Instant classic for a new generation that needs thrills. And without all those video screens...

 

[jt04]

I am looking at catching things much larger than flies. Why would you even want a fly?

Good point. There must be a better analogy to get the idea across. You have become much better (expert even) at providing criticism and justifying your opinion. Others here are just boorishly negative which is tiresome (like you once were). And it drowns out well thought out content like you provide of late.

Since I took such a hit here on my opinion, I feel I need to give an example of how pure negativity is counter productive. We all know what happened after the AC closed around here. And what did all the endless atttacks on management accomplish? Hmmmm.

And now that there are rumors of the AC coming back in some form those critics are nowhere to be found. Because they know very well that negativity could get the rumored project scaled back or even canceled. I am going on the assumption the rumors may be true. Apparently AC fans think they are true too.

The squeaky wheel sometimes just gets replaced.

~Kungaloosh~

 

[rael ramone]

As for paying CMs, I was talking to a friend today and the subject of Disney's poor pay for frontliners came up. What is amazing about the folks who defend Disney is the whole thought process behind it. You pay premium prices and then some for a MAGICal WDW vacation. Don't you want the best workers to ensure you get what you paid for with your hard-earned $$$? How do you reconcile that with $8 an hour wages? Or busdrivers making $11 an hour when Orlando city drivers (mass transit is ONLY for very poor people in a place like O-Town) start at $14 per hour? Why would you ever defend Disney? (all that extremist 'I'm going to be Bill Gates someday and I don't want my money going to lazy immigrants that pop out eight babies' BS aside)

It would have been awesome if it was addressed at the meeting this way:

'Sir, when you check in to see the progress of NGE and see how the 2 Billion plus Skynet program is advancing, do you ever drive around the area and see the Hoovervilles....whoops, excuse me....Igervilles.... that the cast members are forced to live due to the pathetic compensation'?

As I already commented somewhere (either here or in the other thread) Premium Service is priced into the cost of the ticket, food, lodging, merch, etc. Funds that should be used to ensure that the CM's have the compensation to provide the Premium Service the guest paid for are being diverted to the 'precious' share buybacks.

It's not a case of 'I don't want to have to pay for them to make more'. You already are.

 

[truecoat]

The first Terminator had a budget of $50 million. Coincidentally, Cameron was the director/writer for all these.

The first Terminator didn't even make 50 million. It's actual budget was under 7 million and it made in the neighborhood of $38 million. It was still considered a big success back in '84 with those figures.

 

[rael ramone]

Wouldn't surprise me a bit, in the not too distant future, to see rumblings of them completely closing one of the 'gates', under the guise of a complete re-do, only to drag their feet, and leave it a ghost town. If I had to guess, it would be DHS, as the outdoor food and shopping mall known as Epcot likely rakes in far too much cash and profit for that to be on the chopping block, plus they're already working in AK and MK won't go away. And, @WDW1974 I wish I was joking about that part.

How long would it take DHS to go back to nature?