The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[lebeau]

Eh, at a certain point, the neglect of WS starts to show. Most notably, movies depicting France, Norway and China that are pushing two generations old. It's like showing video of the Bicentennial and saying, "see, this is what the U.S. looks like."

Don't get me wrong. Disney should absolutely be updating both halves of the park. But I'll take the neglect of World Showcase over what was done to Future World.

 

[Bolna]

Eh, at a certain point, the neglect of WS starts to show. Most notably, movies depicting France, Norway and China that are pushing two generations old. It's like showing video of the Bicentennial and saying, "see, this is what the U.S. looks like."

Yes, when my sister and I watched the France film for the first time in 2011 we commented afterwards that this was like time travel back into the Europe of our childhood thanks to the fantastic quality of the digital film.

 

[sshindel]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.
I wish Disney would do the following
1) Close down Future World for a couple of years
2) Open World Showcase as "Pleasure Island" type experience for dining and drinking. Ticketed cost (minimal, $10-$20/person) to get in but make a majority of its money off of the more adult experiences. I wouldn't cry if it were 21+.
3) Invest eleventy billion dollars into Future World. Singular vision, modular design to allow it's experiences to stay on the bleeding edge, corporate involvement (not just sponsorship) focused on innovation.
4) Reopen it in all it's new-found glory.
5) Reinvent World Showcase one pavilion at a time now that it's become a ghost-town with the new Future World holding all the visitors

I realize the many, many ways why there is no way in hell that this will ever happen, so I wont hold my breath of course. If only I still believed in dreams...

 

[71jason]

2) Open World Showcase as "Pleasure Island" type experience for dining and drinking. Ticketed cost (minimal, $10-$20/person) to get in but make a majority of its money off of the more adult experiences. I wouldn't cry if it were 21+.

I thought I was the only one who thought "Project Gemini" was a good idea. Would have forced TDO to save Future World, while opening up a great adult nightlife area. Imagine if they kept the live bands and added the DJs from NYE? It would be like Food & Wine every night.

 

[CDavid]

It was a very good park that almost none of us appreciated until it was gone. For a time shortly before it changed, how many lines did you have to wait in to see Horizons, WoM, WoL, Imagination, The Seas, The Land? We took it for granted and got bored with it. They all had lines when the park opened, but the times, guest and desires changed and now it's gone. It lived in a brief era that worked during that time, but, stopped.

The "times, guest and desires" is not what changed - Disney changed. Specifically, it lost its vision, focus, and creativity. The company stopped upholding its own standards and started thinking solely of the bottom line, the almighty dollar. Rather than giving us awe inspiring attractions which were unlike anything we could have imagined, Disney chose the lazy, unimaginative route of appealing to the least common denominator. A park based on knowledge, intelligence, and imagination was quite literally and deliberately dumbed down to more closely match expectations of a theme park.

Epcot worked in the 1980's for the same reasons it could - and should - have worked in 2014. Guests didn't get bored; Disney failed to stop a park based on the future from stagnating into the present (or even past), and when it finally did something, it fundamentally altered and undermined the experience. The guests' are not at fault; You cannot explain away Epcot's present-day shortcomings by blaming the customer. Technology and styles have changed between 1982 and 2014, but people have always been interested in quality experiences which are thought provoking, emotionally thrilling, and exceed their expectations. That's always been true and always will be; Epcot Center could have worked just as well today and it did thirty years ago.

While our complaints won't bring about the return of the original Epcot - a 1982 park - perhaps standing up for standards (Disney's own) highlights the importance of not further destroying the essence of the park. The original Journey into Imagination may be gone, but we can stand firm for not having yet another attraction based on the latest popular IP which has no place in Future World.

They are a different generation, for a lack of a better way to put it, and our idea of quality entertainment is different then theirs.

Again, the technology and media used to entertain have changed (or does anyone else here still have a working Betamax?), but quality productions (attractions. movies, books, etc.) are more timeless. The current generation is no more or less interested in theme-park experiences based around academic subjects than we would have been prior to 1982, when we saw what Disney had built.

 

[lobelia]

If only I still believed in dreams...

I think a fairy just lost its wings ......

 

[Goofyernmost]

Who cares if they have nothing to do with what makes the place special? Apparently, not @Goofyernmost. Personally, I find the new parts of new Epcot to be a mishmash of meh. World Showcase has yet to be molested.

I wish I was a little better at properly putting things in words that everyone could understand. I never said, not even once, that I didn't care. What I said was that we have no control over what has already happened. I doubt we have any control over stuff that is yet to happen. I am trying to say that the old "for every action there is a reaction" theory resulted in what we see in Epcot today. Unlike those of us that were there and "got" the message when EPCOT first opened, it was either not felt by the people that followed or it just wasn't what they wanted. They were the majority and Disney responded to it. That doesn't mean that, in our minds, they responded the way we wanted them too.

At the end of the afterglow following Walt's death a major transformation happened. Disney Co. no longer was the fulfillment of a dream. It became a full fledged, absolute, profit only oriented business, run by business men for business men and geared to keep the financials looking healthy. There are a lot of little things that people have a minor aneurism about that I find to be more figments (sorry) of their imagination or faulty memories, but, there are also a lot of big things that I feel will or have the potential to destroy Disney, not only as we knew it, but, completely. The summary of it is we need to accept Disney for what it is now or live a life of frustration, we are not going to change it and nothing is going to happen unless the right person with intestinal fortitude is in charge. Don't see that happening, do you?

You folks can go anyway you please, but, I love visiting Disney Parks. I don't stay in the, "hold um up and strip um of all cash", hotels, restaurants, Pin Trading or Souvenirs. I only involve myself with the parks. Many things that used to be there are gone now, I miss them like you do, but, I will be damned that I am going to let stupid decisions made by stupid executives take away my enjoyment of the parks. I will adapt and enjoy what is there and fondly remember what once was that can't be anymore.

 

[WDWFanDave]

Dear spaghetti monster, I don't think I have the strength to not respond to this post.

Part of me wants to go through piece by piece and attack each of your points. Part of me wants to defend the honor of my beloved Kitchen Kabaret over that overblown clone of a ride that should have stayed in California, take down your idea that a good portion of the original Imagination was boring, scoff at the thought that "once you've seen one fish swimming you've seen them all", debate in detail why swapping Horizons for Mission:Space was a massive debacle, get into the idea of an empty pavilion sitting unused, piece by piece take issue with this post. But, you know what, it's all opinion. You are free to your opinion on Epcot. You'll find some people even agree with parts of it.

What I want to focus on here is something different. More meaningful. It's what EPCOT once stood for, and what it does now. EPCOT as envisioned by Walt is entirely different than what was built. Walt's vision for an experimental community was not going to fly as a theme park (if it would have worked is another interesting point of discussion). But, while there were not people living, working, collaborating, inventing in the EPCOT that was opened in the 80's, I always felt the spirit of what the park stood for. Through entertainment and technology, it was meant to foster the imaginative spirit and inquisitive nature of all of us to realize the things that are possible in the world. It was meant to educate and inspire us to a greater future.
That is what is lacking today. It's all been taken away, given lip service here or there, but based on the (incorrect) assumption that people thought learning was boring, and that kids needed to be talked to at the lowest level possible in order to keep them engaged.

World of Motion gave me the history of travel, and through understanding where we came from, it inspired us to look towards the places we could go in the future. Test Track just lets me know a simplified (and false) version of how they design and test current cars.

Nemo. I don't think I can even say it. What does Nemo do to inspire us? Seabase Alpha let us look towards the time when undersea exploration might help us understand the very nature of our planet in a deeper (pun!) way. The oceans make up 70% of our planet, and we've explored less than 5% of them. Forget the fish, that was NEVER the point of Seabase Alpha. Nemo inspires us to buy merchandise now.

Horizons. Sigh. "If we can dream it, we can do it". Looking towards the future. What Mission Space does is simulate something that for the most part happened in the 60's (substitute the moon for Mars). There is next to NOTHING forward facing in this. Nothing to inspire me to study the universe. Heck, there was nothing there to even inspire me to ride it a second time (ever).

Imagination is a travesty in it's current state, and it used to be the linchpin of the entire park. Through imagination, experience, and education the future was going to be possible. Now we learn about the 5 senses. Great, my kindergartener's mind will be blown.

No one wants to hear me rail against Soarin, believe me. Y'all seem to like that ride.

I loved the points brought up earlier regarding the soundtrack to EPCOT and what it truly meant. Those thoughts made me smile and nod.

I could go on and on. The point here is that what EPCOT was meant to do, it's mission statement:


That is all gone now. Education was replaced for entertainment, and a lot of times in the lowest common denominator (ohh, skunk smell, LOLZ). Was EPCOT perfect? Of course not. Where Disney failed here was it took a step backwards and not forwards. EPCOT needed to be cutting edge at all times. It needed to be always looking one, two, five steps ahead. It needed to change ahead of the times. Instead it was gutted and in it's place was an empty facade with some neon lights that distract the children. And a hangglider simulation about California, you know, the FUTURE!

That noise you just heard...me, standing on my chair, clapping and cheering loudly. Thank you.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

Education can however be made WORSE by politicians intervening which is exactly what we see happening today.

I can do fairly complex math in my head, Today's kids need a calculator to make change from a dollar basic SKILLS are not being taught or being taught very poorly. My great grandmother who attended a 1 room school on the Hungarian plains could do math in her head.

But the schools will spend WEEKS on why we should recycle (it should be obvious to any thinking being WHY) use curly lightbulbs etc, Basic skills like math and english who cares about those.

I was visiting a school in the Netherlands and the kids are learning Dutch/German/French/English/Chinese in the FIRST GRADE! and it's ALL the kids in the class learning ALL the named languages.

We can go rah-rah American Schools the reality is we suck at education here.

No kidding the education in America sucks. The standards went down.

The problem with education being worse today isn't all on politicians. I am saying this base on the responses public school teachers made online to a local paper online. Teachers were blaming how the kids were brought up by their parents based on how bad the kids were behaving in class.

When I was a high school student, I knew a teacher that wanted science to be eliminated from school unless it was environmental science and this was back in the mid 1990's. That means some of the classes or stuff being taught now actually is caused by the teachers themselves.

The other thing is the quality of the teachers. I am saying this based on when I was a public school student. I graduated from a Public High School when Barack Obama was in his mid 30's matter of fact. I had a teacher in high school that had questionable teacher materials.

What I meant by questionable teaching materials is stuff like a global warming video that claimed stuff like California turning into an island is caused by global warming and I saw that global warming video 18 years ago and everyone will be living in biodomes by 2050 as examples of bull crap that I remembered from watching that Global warming video. The sad thing is I am not making this crap up. Anyone that took a science class knows California being turned into an island only could be caused by plate tectonics, not by global warming.

 

[lebeau]

I wish I was a little better at properly putting things in words that everyone could understand. I never said, not even once, that I didn't care. What I said was that we have no control over what has already happened.

I'm going to stop you right there. Because, I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about the future.

I doubt we have any control over stuff that is yet to happen.

You are of course right. We don't have much control over everything. We can vote with our wallets, but Disney won't miss us. Should we just lower our expectations then? I'm not going to pretend the current Epcot is good enough when the reality is it's in sad shape.

I am trying to say that the old "for every action there is a reaction" theory resulted in what we see in Epcot today. Unlike those of us that were there and "got" the message when EPCOT first opened, it was either not felt by the people that followed or it just wasn't what they wanted. They were the majority and Disney responded to it. That doesn't mean that, in our minds, they responded the way we wanted them too.

And I reject that theory. My point is that Epcot did not change because guests rejected the original mission statement. It changed because Disney didn't keep Epcot up to date. Guests rejected the 80s version of future world that had grown stale a decade later. Had Disney kept updating Future World, it would have remained popular. I would wager that as a unique experience, it would be even more popular than it is today. Instead, Disney got cheap and lazy.

Sound familiar?

At the end of the afterglow following Walt's death a major transformation happened. Disney Co. no longer was the fulfillment of a dream. It became a full fledged, absolute, profit only oriented business, run by business men for business men and geared to keep the financials looking healthy. There are a lot of little things that people have a minor aneurism about that I find to be more figments (sorry) of their imagination or faulty memories, but, there are also a lot of big things that I feel will or have the potential to destroy Disney, not only as we knew it, but, completely. The summary of it is we need to accept Disney for what it is now or live a life of frustration, we are not going to change it and nothing is going to happen unless the right person with intestinal fortitude is in charge. Don't see that happening, do you?

So we're never supposed to complain about anything no matter what Disney does because we can't control it? I reject this as well.

You folks can go anyway you please, but, I love visiting Disney Parks. I don't stay in the, "hold um up and strip um of all cash", hotels, restaurants, Pin Trading or Souvenirs. I only involve myself with the parks. Many things that used to be there are gone now, I miss them like you do, but, I will be damned that I am going to let stupid decisions made by stupid executives take away my enjoyment of the parks. I will adapt and enjoy what is there and fondly remember what once was that can't be anymore.

And they will continue stripping things you love from the parks until they no longer resemble the parks you love. Will you still love them then?

 

[jlsHouston]

Dear spaghetti monster, I don't think I have the strength to not respond to this post.

Part of me wants to go through piece by piece and attack each of your points. Part of me wants to defend the honor of my beloved Kitchen Kabaret over that overblown clone of a ride that should have stayed in California, take down your idea that a good portion of the original Imagination was boring, scoff at the thought that "once you've seen one fish swimming you've seen them all", debate in detail why swapping Horizons for Mission:Space was a massive debacle, get into the idea of an empty pavilion sitting unused, piece by piece take issue with this post. But, you know what, it's all opinion. You are free to your opinion on Epcot. You'll find some people even agree with parts of it.

What I want to focus on here is something different. More meaningful. It's what EPCOT once stood for, and what it does now. EPCOT as envisioned by Walt is entirely different than what was built. Walt's vision for an experimental community was not going to fly as a theme park (if it would have worked is another interesting point of discussion). But, while there were not people living, working, collaborating, inventing in the EPCOT that was opened in the 80's, I always felt the spirit of what the park stood for. Through entertainment and technology, it was meant to foster the imaginative spirit and inquisitive nature of all of us to realize the things that are possible in the world. It was meant to educate and inspire us to a greater future.
That is what is lacking today. It's all been taken away, given lip service here or there, but based on the (incorrect) assumption that people thought learning was boring, and that kids needed to be talked to at the lowest level possible in order to keep them engaged.

World of Motion gave me the history of travel, and through understanding where we came from, it inspired us to look towards the places we could go in the future. Test Track just lets me know a simplified (and false) version of how they design and test current cars.

Nemo. I don't think I can even say it. What does Nemo do to inspire us? Seabase Alpha let us look towards the time when undersea exploration might help us understand the very nature of our planet in a deeper (pun!) way. The oceans make up 70% of our planet, and we've explored less than 5% of them. Forget the fish, that was NEVER the point of Seabase Alpha. Nemo inspires us to buy merchandise now.

Horizons. Sigh. "If we can dream it, we can do it". Looking towards the future. What Mission Space does is simulate something that for the most part happened in the 60's (substitute the moon for Mars). There is next to NOTHING forward facing in this. Nothing to inspire me to study the universe. Heck, there was nothing there to even inspire me to ride it a second time (ever).

Imagination is a travesty in it's current state, and it used to be the linchpin of the entire park. Through imagination, experience, and education the future was going to be possible. Now we learn about the 5 senses. Great, my kindergartener's mind will be blown.

No one wants to hear me rail against Soarin, believe me. Y'all seem to like that ride.

I loved the points brought up earlier regarding the soundtrack to EPCOT and what it truly meant. Those thoughts made me smile and nod.

I could go on and on. The point here is that what EPCOT was meant to do, it's mission statement:


That is all gone now. Education was replaced for entertainment, and a lot of times in the lowest common denominator (ohh, skunk smell, LOLZ). Was EPCOT perfect? Of course not. Where Disney failed here was it took a step backwards and not forwards. EPCOT needed to be cutting edge at all times. It needed to be always looking one, two, five steps ahead. It needed to change ahead of the times. Instead it was gutted and in it's place was an empty facade with some neon lights that distract the children. And a hangglider simulation about California, you know, the FUTURE!

OMG, maybe I am just emotional today but I am in tears over what you just proclaimed and your words make me sad that I don't even have a clue or an inkling as to the former glory of my glorious EPCOT.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

We all miss the early days of EPCOT Ctr. I do too, but, you know what we can spend a lifetime looking back and in the process miss today and tomorrow. Epcot, is not the same, true! It has changed from one focus to a more foggy focus, but, it's what we have now. I enjoyed Horizons, but I also enjoy Mission: Space and to me it seems like I am part of it way more then I ever did with Horizons. I enjoyed WoM and thought it was very Disney, but, it's gone and Test Track has replaced it. WoM is not coming back either, there is only so long anyone should mourn the loss of a theme park ride before we move on and get enjoyment out of what is there. I loved Imagination as a complete Pavilion and hate that it no longer is one. I hate that they put Michael (hand to crotch) Jackson back in when it was rejected so many years ago. If I am absolutely honest the only part of the Imagination ride that was jaw dropping was the first part with the turntable, Dream Finder and Figment, after that it was cool but it was also boring in many places. UoE was a 45 minute advertisement for Exxon. Now, like her or not, Ellen has made it at least focused on science and explanations and HUMOR. Don't miss the original at all. Wonders of life, had Body Wars and Cranium Command, other then that, for adults, meh! It is criminal that nothing new has gone in there though.

Let's skip back over to The Land, shall we? Originally there was The Symbiosis Film that I cannot comment on because I have never seen it. Living with the Land is essentially the same ride as when it open. Soarin is a much more immersive show then Kitchen Kabaret that, if you let yourself admit it, was just a kiddy puppet show with catchy music. You never saw an hour long line waiting to see Kabaret, I'm sure. The Seas, OK I miss the Hyrdolators they were a fun part of it, but, today's ride, although dominated by Nemo is longer and at least leaves one with something to look at. Not a huge improvement but at least different. The inside, aquarium view hasn't changed a lot, if you've seen one fish swimming you have seen them all. Interesting but only for short periods of time. Sure they had the diver in the tube, but that wasn't constant and if you weren't there at showtime you didn't get to see it. Turtle talk is more entertaining.

One part that has changed negatively, in my mind, is Innoventions. That used to take up a lot of time, just looking around at things. It was never my favorite and probably not that many others felt it was a must see. I did enjoy it though.

The next is purely my opinion. Spaceship Earth, was never the same after the Walter Cronkite version ended. He was a voice that I grew up listening too and he projected calmness and the sense that everything no matter how much it changed was going to be alright. As for the ending, I haven't see one yet since the place opened up that I didn't think was lame and mostly an afterthought. Sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same.

Epcot remains my favorite park not only for what it once was, but for what it is today. I can venture one thing though and that is, if the bean counters had any reason to think that EPCOT was pulling them in, we would still be looking at everything we did in 1983. The idea that we, as a group, rehash the "old" EPCOT as much as we do seems to just be a futile attempt at nostalgia. They aren't coming back, the world has changed to the degree that it isn't wanted, except for by a group of raging fans. In the overused words of the Frozen song... "Let it Go!"

While you gave your opinion on Epcot, I am giving mine now. I am not saying Epcot should go back to the past because that is not what Epcot was designed for when it was open in 1982. Epcot's direction is bad right now and its not based on Nostalgia either. TDO/Burbank failed Epcot because they haven't been updating it like Epcot was supposed to be because of the nature of Future World. The fact is TDO/Burbank has gotten cheap, but has no problems spending 2.5 Billion dollars on My magic plus.

TDO/Burbank has done a bad job of not updating current attraction or get a rid of attractions that not a lot of people go to anymore.

Imagination is a sad state of affairs. When I went there in late August of last year, Journey into Imagination was a ghost town with cast members bored out of their minds and this was around 11:00 in the morning. That sounds to me like an attraction that needs to be taken out of its misery by updating it or redoing it. Bring back Captain EO isn't the answer because Epcot is supposed by about the future and the film is from 1986.

While Universe of Energy was updated in 1996, it is now turning an an outdated attraction in terms of information. That is big deal because science is a subject that does change in terms of information.

Lets a take look at Circle of life. The film came out in 1995, but it is due for a new film.

I went to Innoventions that last time I went to Epcot, and that was it wasn't busy either and that means something needs to happen there also. The fact is Disney allowed Innoventions to be outdated.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I'm not saying I do not enjoy Epcot. It is just now as powerful an experience as it once was. Now it seems to be a series of disjointed experiences that allow little time for thought regarding the concepts it explores.

I'll say it! It's not a secret I don't like Epcot. But then again, last year was my first time ever being there. I found it to be more of a shopping strip mall and oversized bar than anything it was in the 80s and 90s.

From a "newbies" point of view, the entire front of the park is a desolate wasteland which does not bode well for our future, don't you think? The world showcase was much what it's name states, it appeared to be a showcase and mall with food and drinks of each area.

As much as I wanted to like the park I just couldn't, and can't do it now. It needs so much work. It felt like it was built and then left to rot in the sun but somehow people were inexplicably paying $90 a day to be there.

Next time I go to Epcot, I want to be wowed, as y'all were when you first laid eyes on the brand new park. Unfortunately I just don't see this happening in the next ten years.

 

[Skibum1970]

While you gave your opinion on Epcot, I am giving mine now. I am not saying Epcot should go back to the past because that is not what Epcot was designed for when it was open in 1982. Epcot's direction is bad right now and its not based on Nostalgia either. TDO/Burbank failed Epcot because they haven't been updating it like Epcot was supposed to be because of the nature of Future World. The fact is TDO/Burbank has gotten cheap, but has not problems spending 2.5 Billion dollars on My magic plus.

TDO/Burbank has done a bad job of not updating current attraction or get a rid of attractions that not a lot of people go to anymore.

Imagination is a sad state of affairs. When I went there in late August of last year, Journey into Imagination was a ghost town with cast members bored out of their minds and this was around 11:00 in the morning. That sounds to me like an attraction that needs to be taken out of its misery by updating it or redoing it. Bring back Captain EO isn't the answer because Epcot is supposed by about the future and the film is from 1986.

While Universe of Energy was updated in 1996, it is now turning an an outdated attraction in terms of information. That is big deal because science is a subject that does change in terms of information.

Lets a take look at Circle of life. The film came out in 1995, but it is due for a new film.

I went to Innoventions that last time I went to Epcot, and that was it wasn't busy either and that means something needs to happen there also. The fact is Disney allowed Innoventions to be outdated.

Sometimes, I wonder if part of the problem was that Disney wanted someone to sponsor the ride rather than putting up the funding themselves. Having just returned from a visit, I felt that EPCOT was okay but not a destination park. Hopefully no one will laugh but I remember going in the early 90's and it was great. Now, I was in my early 20's but it was so much fun. Things to do and an entire day was almost not enough. Not anymore. After a few hours this past time, we were deciding where to go next (outside of the park). Not enough attractions for us. I love the old standby's (Spaceship Earth and others) but hate walking past the former Wonders of Life pavilion and other places that are now remnants of a more interesting past.

 

[ford91exploder]

well I agree in theory but if we suck so bad why do these kids from all over the world still come here for college.... also when a lot of these kids throughout the world get filtered out by age 12 and only their top students actually go the AP/college route where as we force all of our kids to take the ACT and go to college...again this is just my opinion (someone with two educational degrees and 18 years experience) but the educational experience is superior to what it was 20 years ago but the American home has disintegrated and the value of education is not appreciated
kids are reading far more than they did 20 years ago...I know I didn't have several books to read for summer reading like kids do today...again most of what I say is anecdotal but still from a professional point of view
anyways you make great points

You bring up a GREAT point, That being the disconnect between our failing K-12 system and the world class universities we have in the US, I spent more than a decade as an administrator and considered an academic officer at Harvard yes one of thousands. My favorite time of year was always Freshman Weekend or as we called it "Startup" any you would see kids from EVERYWHERE converging on the Yard.

My personal opinion is because the K-12 system is largely under political control so schools are political footballs but since the majority of the selective universities are private and compete for faculty and students excellence instead of political expedience becomes the deciding factor governing the policies of the institution.

The rest of the world the university system is generally under government control and like all government agencies tend toward mediocrity, There are of course exceptions Cambridge and Oxford in the UK, Uppsala, some of the ancient French and German universities, nearly all of which predate their governments by hundreds of years.

 

[ford91exploder]

No kidding the education in America sucks. The standards went down.

The problem with education being worse today isn't all on politicians. I am saying this base on the responses public school teachers made online to a local paper online. Teachers were blaming how the kids were brought up by their parents based on how bad the kids were behaving in class.

When I was a high school student, I knew a teacher that wanted science to be eliminated from school unless it was environmental science and this was back in the mid 1990's. That means some of the classes or stuff being taught now actually is caused by the teachers themselves.

The other thing is the quality of the teachers. I am saying this based on when I was a public school student. I graduated from a Public High School when Barack Obama was in his mid 30's matter of fact. I had a teacher in high school that had questionable teacher materials.

What I meant by questionable teaching materials is stuff like a global warming video that claimed stuff like California turning into an island is caused by global warming and I saw that global warming video 18 years ago and everyone will be living in biodomes by 2050 as examples of bull crap that I remembered from watching that Global warming video. The sad thing is I am not making this crap up. Anyone that took a science class knows California being turned into an island only could be caused by plate tectonics, not by global warming.

This is the kind of CRAP my DW complains about, We are both coaches in FIRST Robotics so we have a science orientation, When DW brings home yet another bad science piece I want to scream, The little pieces where the cops come in and encourage kids to 'inform' on their parents for illegal activities. Damn that's straight out of the old (and apparently resurgent) Soviet Union.

I'd really like the schools to confine themselves to providing kids with Academic skills, There is a waitress in the local Chinese restaurant - her parents are factory workers in china she went to the school for factory workers and she is far more academically competent than the majority of the graduating seniors and she just had her 21'st birthday. She also speaks better english than the majority of seniors as well.

Draw your own conclusions about the success of the US K-12 system.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm going to stop you right there. Because, I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about the future.

You are of course right. We don't have much control over everything. We can vote with our wallets, but Disney won't miss us. Should we just lower our expectations then? I'm not going to pretend the current Epcot is good enough when the reality is it's in sad shape.

And I reject that theory. My point is that Epcot did not change because guests rejected the original mission statement. It changed because Disney didn't keep Epcot up to date. Guests rejected the 80s version of future world that had grown stale a decade later. Had Disney kept updating Future World, it would have remained popular. I would wager that as a unique experience, it would be even more popular than it is today. Instead, Disney got cheap and lazy.

Sound familiar?

So we're never supposed to complain about anything no matter what Disney does because we can't control it? I reject this as well.

And they will continue stripping things you love from the parks until they no longer resemble the parks you love. Will you still love them then?

I'd be all in favor of complaining if it had the chance of a snowball in hell of making a difference, but, if it makes us all happy, why not. I complain about things as well, just not the same stuff. I try to keep my life a little less stress filled by not getting upset about things I can do nothing about.

I agree, EPCOT could not keep up with change in technology. When most of the stuff, including Tomorrowland, was envisioned, the world was moving a lot slower then it is now. It's shoveling **** against the tide. So I will concede that this was probably a bigger reason then lower attendance was, but, it was a real problem and it wasn't just cost. It also became much harder to see far enough into the future to build, revamp attractions faster then technology. It wasn't working anymore even when they did things faster.

Would I still love them then if everything was stripped away?... probably not, but somebody would so it really wouldn't matter to them, as you say, unless business really started to fall off, and that, in spite of popular belief, is possible. Of course, it depends on what it's replaced with. In my mind if I walked in there and saw nothing but Marvel or Star Wars, I would be a loyal used to be a Guest. I'm keeping an open mind on Avatar. There is nothing about the movie that calls me in. But, I will check it out when it opens, if I'm still alive. I'm getting older and might be running out of time. I know that those last sentences will have the Marvel, Star Wars and Avatar police make camp out in front of my place and arrest me on sight, but, again, my opinion, not necessarily that of the rest of the world.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I hope WDW1974 could answer the question I have with mymagic plus. Does anyone know how much many is Disney spending on marketing Fastpass plus?

I am asking this since I saw commercials on marketing Fastpass plus.

 

[NoChesterHester]

I hope WDW1974 could answer the question I have with mymagic plus. Does anyone know how much many is Disney spending on marketing Fastpass plus?

I am asking this since I saw commercials on marketing Fastpass plus.

One billion dollars!

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'll say it! It's not a secret I don't like Epcot. But then again, last year was my first time ever being there. I found it to be more of a shopping strip mall and oversized bar than anything it was in the 80s and 90s.

From a "newbies" point of view, the entire front of the park is a desolate wasteland which does not bode well for our future, don't you think? The world showcase was much what it's name states, it appeared to be a showcase and mall with food and drinks of each area.

As much as I wanted to like the park I just couldn't, and can't do it now. It needs so much work. It felt like it was built and then left to rot in the sun but somehow people were inexplicably paying $90 a day to be there.

Next time I go to Epcot, I want to be wowed, as y'all were when you first laid eyes on the brand new park. Unfortunately I just don't see this happening in the next ten years.

Very good point that I forgot to mention. Change the name... it is no longer Future World and that name is misleading to say the least. Right now it is present and past world. It needs a new identity. I wish I was clever enough to think of a name, but the more I think about it there isn't one single thing in there that isn't either Yesterday or Today.

Wanna have a survey here on line with suggestions for a new name for Future World (keep it clean). Maybe we could e-mail the powers that be to consider a new name.