The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[WDW1974]

Point 1: It's not a single piece of concept art. There are full scale models, several pieces of concept art, and details about Avatar Land. It will deliver just like Cars Land delivered and you know damn well that it will.

Neo, it seems your only purpose here these days is to bash a CEO was was replaced almost nine years ago. You aren't living in the past, you're living in the ancient past for the purposes of a vast media empire like Disney. Even if everything you say is right (and it isn't), what the eff does that have to do with the management team of Iger, Staggs and Rasulo over the last nine years? What does it say about THEIR leadership, THEIR work, THEIR mindset that WDW is in the shape it is in now -- in 2014?

As to your point above, Cars Land absolutely delivered. But I don't know that Pandora will ... neither do you ... neither do any of the people working on it. Let's talk in 2018 or 2019.

Point 2: As you yourself said Horizons already existed before Eisner entered the picture. He and his team were the ones that ruined Epcot because it wasn't "hip" enough and had Horizons and World of Motion replaced with bare bone thrill rides, set up that ugly fiesta crap in the plaza, ruined Universe of Energy with a stupid ellen degeneris tie-in, etc.

Yes, Horizons existed for the vast majority of his tenure. And when it was removed, it was removed for a $200 million attraction (you can argue the merits of it, but it isn't a situation where nothing replaced it ... like WoL, which will sit empty for Bob Iger's entire tenure as head of TWDC).

There was nothing at all wrong with UoE's redo in the 90s. It increased numbers and guest satisfaction and didn't come off as a commercial for an evil company like Exxon. The issue with it is that it should have been replaced/refreshed as soon as Bob came in. It still will be in its current Eisner-era form when Bob leaves the company in two years.

Oh, and that ugly stuff in the plaza was widely lauded for bringing life to the area. It was supposed to be temporary for the Millennium Celebration ... again, you're blaming the old leadership's creative choices for the current leadership's inertia.

Point 3: Your playing games. Eisner's boys are the ones that ruined Imagination in the first place in 1999 and even if he didn't like the end result the second version (JIYI W/ Figment) was just as awful. Arguably more so since it turned figment into an obnoxious character.

The point was that a CEO can't control every aspect of everything a company the size of Disney does. MDE hated the Imagination redo. That wasn't on him, that was on creatives that sold a bad project and underdelivered on it.

Eisner's boys, as you call them, are still making the decisions today. That would tend to make me believe that the current CEO likes them and the way they think and the decisions/choices they make.

All on Iger.

Point 4: Eisner and his team are the ones that neutered Baxter in the first place and had him just sitting in a corner not doing anything for a DECADE. At least Iger had the decency to let him supervise the Disneyland portfolio for his last few years and gave him authority to green light pet projects like Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough, reopening Captain EO, etc.

Eisner is the one who allowed Baxter to create most of his greatest projects, including designing DLP. ... Tony was not easy to work with and T-land '98 in Anaheim was his project and was a disaster. He survived that based on his talent and savvy and the fact Michael didn't want him to leave. But his pouting over not being included on any aspect of DCA largely kept him doing nothing for the last 3-4 years of MDE's tenure. ... But even with John Lasseter in his corner, Iger did nothing to change that. Instead, he marginalized Tony so that all he did was make a huge salary to tinker until finally being pushed out last year.

 

[Jennifer66]

yes, but will it stand the test of time the way Snow White, Cinderella, and all the other classics have?

Only time will tell, but I really don't think it matters. If WDW put in a solid Frozen attraction (not an overlay at Norway), then the attraction becomes more than the movie. I love Splash, but I've never seen Song of the South. I love the Hulk coaster at Uni, but do not like the movie/TV show, etc.

 

[Nemo14]

Only time will tell, but I really don't think it matters. If WDW put in a solid Frozen attraction (not an overlay at Norway), then the attraction becomes more than the movie. I love Splash, but I've never seen Song of the South. I love the Hulk coaster at Uni, but do not like the movie/TV show, etc.

That probably makes sense if it's done well, but based on the past 10+ years or so, I'm not counting on anything amazing.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It is an E and has been very popular since its debut. It's a nice, long, fun ride that is actually tamer than the Matterhorn in terms of what it does to your body. DCA still has issues (Iger forgetting that DCA's Extreme Makeover had a Phase II planned is part of that), but the coaster and its loop wouldn't be one.

The dislike of the loop is personal preference not my identifying it as a major problem.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Goof why are you always so damn negative? You need an IV of Pixie Dust ... maybe with some meth added.

Seriously, they had plenty of big names ... and as to them being 'aging ex-superstars' well what's the point? That the cast of Dynasty would have been more relevant then? Or maybe the cast of Roseanne or Cosby? Or just Tome Cruise and Bruce Willis and Arnold? 'Cause they were A-listers at the time (missing the point that many at the opening were still considered MAJOR stars) ... By your definition, Robin Williams would qualify as ''an aging ex-superstar'' if he were still alive ... Paul McCartney most definitely.

Geez, just because someone wasn't at the peak of their career didn't mean they were a has been. I met Bob Hope at the event and he was quite old ... and still quite relevant for millions and millions of people.

I'm not being negative, I'm being factual. Me? Of all people, the defender of the aging masses, putting them down because they are older? Come on, you know better then that.

Someone asked how Disney managed to get all those stars to attend the opening. The reason is because they asked them to be there, paid their every little expense plus an appearance fee and allowed them to be in the spotlight one more time. And because of the stage of their career, they weren't all out doing movies or personal appearances so they showed up. Just a simple answer to a simple question. But, read more into it if you wish.

There are two reasons why Disney doesn't have "stars" for the openings anymore. The first one is that they don't ask them to be there, and second, and more importantly, they don't have any "openings" anymore, at least in this country.

EDIT: Something that I meant to mention, but, forgot was that they were asked because all of them represented Hollywood, both in past tense and current (at the time). It only made sense to include them if they could. Now that said, the reasons that they all showed up is probably different per individual, but, when you have a free schedule you are more able to attend something that is as much a fluff celebration as a Theme Park Opening, then if your schedule is full.

P.S. Does anyone besides me see the irony in you calling me negative?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Do yourself a favor ... just check wikipedia for all of the hit films Bette was in, most Disney, in the 1980s ... Does Down and Out in Beverly Hills ring a bell? How about Beaches? Or Ruthless People?

Golden Globes ... Emmys ... yeah, she was a has been. ... Just like Costner and the rest ...

You're slipping there buddy. I didn't say that either Bette or Kevin were has beens. In fact I clearly stated that I didn't know why Costner was there and I don't (or care for that matter) but I do know, as you do, that Bette was at her peak at that point and was also a big part of the "illusion" that this was going to be a working studio. Her film, The Lottery, was filmed there and the segments were and background were shown as a large part of the Back Lot Tour. Under any other circumstance my guess is that Bette would have been to busy during that part of her life to attended the Grand Opening just to be there. There is a difference.

 

[phillip sugarman]

The Guardians of the Galaxy preview has been extended until September 12 with the theater opening up again on September 25 according to the Disneyland refurbishment list. This seems very likely given the timetable that Big Hero 6 will have a preview in there starting on September 25.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Do yourself a favor ... just check wikipedia for all of the hit films Bette was in, most Disney, in the 1980s ... Does Down and Out in Beverly Hills ring a bell? How about Beaches? Or Ruthless People?

Golden Globes ... Emmys ... yeah, she was a has been. ... Just like Costner and the rest ...

Mid 80's Bette Midler? Love that red hair and the burlesque....

 

[PeterAlt]

3.7 billion

Not a small number by any means until you factor in everything from planning to site clearance, surveys, security, design, R&D, WDI budgets, roads, sewers, power supplies.... and then you start building the resort.

Not to mention the Magicbandfastpassreserveanything system cost about half the entire project.

What did we say DLP Phase 1 cost again? The numbers are comparable.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What did we say DLP Phase 1 cost again? The numbers are comparable.

$4.5 - 5 billion in 1992 is equivalent to $7.6 - 8.5 billion today. That's about double.

 

[AEfx]

Also not true.

So he was lying? Wouldn't shock me either way.

 

[PeterAlt]

$4.5 - 5 billion in 1992 is equivalent to $7.6 - 8.5 billion today. That's about double.

Well, consider it opened with an overbuild of hotel rooms and consider how much was spent on HKDL, that number is closer to DLP than HKDL. Remove the overbuilt hotels and Downtown Disney from that equation and we're closer...

OH! Disney had a much bigger financial interest ownership stake in EuroDisney than it does SDL! So, investment dollars per ownership stake comes out to about the same, if not greater for SDL!

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't think it is ridiculous at all.

I brought up on this very forum that there were some inside Disney that were pushing against large Star Wars based expansions in the parks based upon the fact that SWWs appeal to a very limited demographic and that they have studied who attends and why.

In the end, I don't see it making any difference. My parents have never read a Harry Potter book or likely seen an entire movie. They loved the WW at IOA.

IP love can only help a project in themed entertainment, but it doesn't necessarily hurt if people aren't overly familiar IF you do an area or attraction right.

The Frozen phenomenon is just that. And anyone who disses it because it isn't their thing is just being ignorant of what the masses like (much like Potter). Now, it doesn't mean that what the masses love is all that, but that isn't the subject here.

Having the Frozen summer has helped the Studios greatly (largely at the expense of EPCOT).

I definitely agree with this. I know people who are not Potter fanatics who never read the books and maybe saw part of a movie or 2 that loved WWOHP. They probably didn't get some of the details or nuances from the books/movies that fans pick up on, but the area is well done. I have some hope that AvatarLand can be similar. I've seen the movie, but wouldn't call myself a fan. If the land is well done I'm not sure it matters.

The people inside Disney are way off base with the StarWarsLand theory. I disagree with the notion that StarWarsLand would only attract the same SW fanboys that SWW attracts. IMHO SWW is more like a Comicon or a Star Trek Convention. People want to see or potentially meet actors from the movies and buy merchandise. I am a fan of the StarWars movies but I never had any interest in going to a SWW event. I would be very excited to visit a fully immersive SW Land. Yes, you will draw some sketchy fanboys dressed as BobbaFet of Darth Vader, but the majority of people who would be booking a trip to visit a SW Land would be the same demographic they are targeting.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm assuming we all heard about the DTD parking garage construction delays?

 

[Nemo14]

I'm assuming we all heard about the DTD parking garage construction delays?

and we're all surprised?

 

[RSoxNo1]

So he was lying? Wouldn't shock me either way.

He was kicked out of Disneyland, but he does not have a lifetime ban. After the D23 Expo last year, he was one of many people at a touring plans get together at Flo's.

 

[WDW1974]

We are all well aware of Eisner's work. What you seem to be repeatedly ignoring is that almost everything you mention as a negative is a view shared by, continued by and often accelerated by Iger. The emphasis on synergy was pushed by Strategic Planning. That group was disbanded but the people remained, namely the two men who under Iger have been CFO and head of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. Especially when it comes to the theme parks, Iger is almost everything bad about Eisner with almost none of the good.

Bolded for emphasis as it's been 'my song' pretty much since I gave Iger 18 months to show he was different. He isn't ...

 

[AEfx]

And someone traveling from abroad is far more likely to use a travel service than someone who was going to hop in their car and drive to FL. "when to visit WDW" is not some secret that leaked out with the Internet, nor did people en large travel abroad without any consult or research. In fact, it was nearly impossible to do so because you couldn't buy airline tickets direct. Not all TAs are WDW savvy - but the 'when do you visit" topic was never some insider tip and is the subject of just about any travel reference on any destination. The knowledge has been out there for decades... you can't force people to absorb it, but it's been there.

My aunt was (and still is) a librarian in a small town of about 10K residents, and they used to have to buy multiple copies of the Birnbaum books every year. They also always had the newest Fodors, and then the Unofficial Guide once that became more popular, and stocked the various ones that were sprouting up through the 90's. Their policy for Travel books was to update them every three years, but with WDW they had to update them every year as they were so popular. In fact, demand was so consistently high that usually they sold off at a book sale whatever previous edition they were replacing, but with WDW they kept the past two years at least simply because they went out so often.

(And no, it wasn't folks taking them and keeping them forever - this library is really strict and if someone is waiting for a title, you can't renew it and they call your behind every day until you bring it back when there is a waitlist, which there usually was for the Birnbaum one, particularly.

It's going to be one hum-dinger of an In Memoriam at the Oscars next year.

Let's hope they get it right and give the right attention to the legends, instead of lingering over whatever teeny-bopper OD's between now and Awards season. The last few years at the Emmy's and Oscar's it's been a disgrace.

 

[WDW1974]

Some Spirited Musings:

To Jason's comments over Mizner's taking away the complimentary nuts, all I can say is ''Do they even think these things through?'' Insanity ... and I recall having drinks there twice in April (the latter simply multiple gallons of Ginger Ale after Typhoon Lagoon gave me a nasty case, is there any other kind?, of norovirus) and watching the lovely bartender get the 'snacks' from a giant/tacky Costco/Sam's Club type plastic tub. Do these execs not realize that bars that don't have $800 hotel rooms or ANY hotel rooms offer still offer bar snacks that are quality and don't come from warehouse clubs?

Yes, I am aware of -- and angry -- about DLP's wholesale destruction of the wonderful Eddie Sotto-designed Photo shop on MSUSA. I get that most people take pics on iPhones now (not me and not @WDWFigment ... but most). I get that maybe you aren't going to have a photography/film shop forever that actually exists to sell merchandise.But for design and sense of time and place, how do you rip out such a magnificent work of art and place a generic, vaguely Victorian shop that sells largely Parisian crap (clearly not for the locals because why would a Parisian want a Minnie tee with the Eiffel Tower on it?)

Haven't heard anything about @marni1971 's news of new lasers and upgrades to RoE. But anything would be welcome. I just hope those lasers are mounted to the heads of sharks like mine are.

Oh, and for anyone who misses those 'screamer' pyro in the show, please place the blame directly where it belongs -- namely at the feet of Bob Iger. The Weatherman wants 'green' pyro and I don't mean the color.

How do you know you are succeeding in ing off folks with tremendous wealth and power? They have their trained monkeys hit a few keystrokes and mess with your life. Too bad that kind of thing simply encourages me to push further and get meaner.

I'm sorry to all those Halloween fanbois, but I am not interested in the holiday in August. Just not at all. Maybe after Labor Day.

The one thing that sticks with me when about Disney today is the most powerful statement: Walt Disney would be canned by the company today IF he was ever hired to start with. Yes, a company led by the likes of Bob Iger, Tom Staggs and Jay Rasulo ... a company that can hire the likes of Bruce Vaughn and Phil Holmes ... a company that twists reality with folks from Zenia Mucha down to Dr. Blondie ... a company that has Lou Mongello as a de facto spokeman and BRAND advocate ... a company that employs so many troubled spirits ... that company wouldn't want Walt and what he stood for today. Just smoke on that ... and then come back and defend today's WDC and its management team.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Some Spirited Musings:

To Jason's comments over Mizner's taking away the complimentary nuts, all I can say is ''Do they even think these things through?'' Insanity ... and I recall having drinks there twice in April (the latter simply multiple gallons of Ginger Ale after Typhoon Lagoon gave me a nasty case, is there any other kind?, of norovirus) and watching the lovely bartender get the 'snacks' from a giant/tacky Costco/Sam's Club type plastic tub. Do these execs not realize that bars that don't have $800 hotel rooms or ANY hotel rooms offer still offer bar snacks that are quality and don't come from warehouse clubs?

Yes, I am aware of -- and angry -- about DLP's wholesale destruction of the wonderful Eddie Sotto-designed Photo shop on MSUSA. I get that most people take pics on iPhones now (not me and not @WDWFigment ... but most). I get that maybe you aren't going to have a photography/film shop forever that actually exists to sell merchandise.But for design and sense of time and place, how do you rip out such a magnificent work of art and place a generic, vaguely Victorian shop that sells largely Parisian crap (clearly not for the locals because why would a Parisian want a Minnie tee with the Eiffel Tower on it?)

Haven't heard anything about @marni1971 's news of new lasers and upgrades to RoE. But anything would be welcome. I just hope those lasers are mounted to the heads of sharks like mine are.

Oh, and for anyone who misses those 'screamer' pyro in the show, please place the blame directly where it belongs -- namely at the feet of Bob Iger. The Weatherman wants 'green' pyro and I don't mean the color.

How do you know you are succeeding in ing off folks with tremendous wealth and power? They have their trained monkeys hit a few keystrokes and mess with your life. Too bad that kind of thing simply encourages me to push further and get meaner.

I'm sorry to all those Halloween fanbois, but I am not interested in the holiday in August. Just not at all. Maybe after Labor Day.

The one thing that sticks with me when about Disney today is the most powerful statement: Walt Disney would be canned by the company today IF he was ever hired to start with. Yes, a company led by the likes of Bob Iger, Tom Staggs and Jay Rasulo ... a company that can hire the likes of Bruce Vaughn and Phil Holmes ... a company that twists reality with folks from Zenia Mucha down to Dr. Blondie ... a company that has Lou Mongello as a de facto spokeman and BRAND advocate ... a company that employs so many troubles spirits ... that company wouldn't want Walt and what he stood for today. Just smoke on that ... and then come back and defend today's WDC and its management team.

You offer nuts (or pretzels, or something salty) to encourage people to drink. Every decision that's being made is being done at a black and white level. Much like the chips in the soda cups, I wouldn't be surprised if this hurts them more than helps them.