The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[Gabe1]

I've been a material witness in how it works when discussion board and other posts are called...

Yes and it is very different for Media to protect their sources vs a member of a discussion board.

 

[71jason]

Not to digress from discussing the CNN report, but a bit of action went down somewhat quietly today that I think @WDW1974 might like to hear.

An individual (who will remain unnamed due to his deleting his FB and presumed request of privacy at this point), who was an annual passholder to the Universal Orlando parks, a reportedly "huge" fan and major Halloween Horror Nights fanatic, was banned from the resort (apparently permanently).

The details of the case are what makes it so interesting.

Yesterday, it would appear there was some sort of "incident" that prompted the attention of Universal team members. While the exact details are unclear due to a majority of the discussion (which was conducted on FB) was deleted, there appeared to be some rambunctious, over-the-top behavior (alcohol almost certainly involved and possibly linked to World Cup viewing at Finnegan's). A heated altercation took place between a team member (whose name I will also withhold) and this fan; it apparently intensified to the point where the team member threatened to kick the individual out (this is corroborated by various witnesses to the events). At this point, the guy cut his losses and left the park.

However, at some point later that day, the individual identified the team member on Facebook and publicly declared that he hoped she "dies and goes to hell." Now, horrifying by any account especially if the individual in question was being out of line for a family theme park setting, but as it turns out this wasn't any ordinary TM, but rather someone rather high up in the Universal Art & Design team. The post was tracked, and as of today, the individual learned of his ban when he failed to be able to use his annual pass to enter the park.

In the hours since (before his FB was deleted) he posted several statuses implying a threat of suicide, including quotes like "Universal and HHN were my life and now that they're gone I am as well." He has since allegedly decided to depart Orlando and (wisely) spend some time with his family. I want to clarify this is a fully grown, adult male.

There are several reasons I bring this case up. It reveals a rather ugly underbelly of Universal passholders who apparently treat the parks like a mall, not unlike a problem the Disneyland Resort has been dealing with the past several years - but unlike Disneyland Park, which does not serve liquor (though DCA does in limited capacities), the Uni parks serve fairly freely. These folks (some of whom I have encountered in person at various HHN events) literally base their lives around hanging out at these parks, and in many cases, drinking heavily at them. I don't mean to generalize, but I've personally witnessed many do it, and they all feed into each others' behavior acting like it isn't a big deal or unhealthy in any way. These parks *are* their lives.

Now, finally, there have been repercussions to this behavior. Some of the individual's friends have fairly called him out on the severity and ugliness of his actions - others have attempted to defend him almost to the point of lunacy. Everyone else seems to feel sympathy for the guy being banned rather than acknowledge how messed up his behavior was (and of course how he's reacting to it now!)

I will never understand anyone who moves to Orlando specifically to be around the theme parks (excluding those who are working there in high-level, salaried positions). I have a contempt for those who treat it as a personal bar and create a frankly unpleasant, creepy atmosphere for families and others just trying to enjoy the park, and the sense of entitlement that encroaches out of that. If you're an AP holder, live in the area, and visit often, great - but your actions have consequences and we need to all remember that we're in a family vacation destination, not some random cheap corner bar. It also doesn't matter how much money you've given Universal over the years... it does not give you a free pass to treat TMs of ANY sort (or any guest for that matter) so viciously and rudely.

I applaud Universal for doing the right thing and making sure this guy was banned; he and his ilk have no place in the Universal parks.

I'm going to assume this is the same event I heard about on Sunday, with a "super fan" jumping up and doing the choreography to Beetlejuice in the middle of the show.

Honestly Skip, I think you overstate the role of alcohol and understate the fact that a lot of these "super fans" are just garden-variety stalkers. I've said many times before, every theme park performer gets stalkers. It's a fact of life in the community. You even admit that this phenomenon exists at DL--a park without alcohol. Some of the worst I ever saw were teetotalers at the Adventurers Club--yes, they hung out at a bar all the time and never drank.

As @WDW1974 has alluded to many times (still waiting on that Spirited book), stalker fans have deep-seated mental issues. I think it's far too easy to dismiss it as, "oh, they like to get drunk."

Also, I take issue with your statement that Universal serves "fairly freely." In-park and CityWalk bartenders are far stricter about IDs than either WDW or SW, will not serve more than one drink unless the person drinking it is right there, and routinely cut off people who have had too much. They are true professionals and I resent any implication to the contrary.

 

[71jason]

If I'm there with my kid, I don't take her to La Cava (a bar) for an extended period (yeah, we'll have some salsa, guac and chips while I down a cucumber margarita or something and she has whatever virgin drink she chose, but I it's a bar...period...and she doesn't need to be there long. Venues we completely avoid? House of Blues and ESPN Zone. Why? These are adult environments that a) would probably bore her and b) I suspect would have activities not suited for her young eyes. Not much different than the now defunct Pleasure Island offerings.

Just so you know, HoB and ESPN Zone are just chain restaurants, and incredibly family-friendly. I raise an eyebrow when parents bring children into La Cava; I don't at HoB or ESPN.

ETA: there is a concert venue at HoB, that is often 18+ only, but it is completely separate from the restaurant, with its own entrance and no way to get between the two.

 

[Lee]

Some of the worst I ever saw were teetotalers at the Adventurers Club--yes, they hung out at a bar all the time and never drank.

Ummmmm......

 

[Lucky]

I wonder if more than 0.0001% of CNN employees have been arrested for the same thing?

A former CNN producer and radio reporter lives within a one minute walk of my house. He left (I assume fired) soon after being charged by a female colleague with stalking and harassing her. A few years later his name was on the sex offenders list. A neighbor called the police and learned it involved some unspecified contact the man had with an underage relative. His name was removed from the list not long afterward, so maybe he wasn't convicted of a felony. (I'm not sure what the rules are for the sex offenders list here.) He also made the local crime pages once for soliciting a prostitute.

Good for CNN that he is no longer works there, but note they weren't able to identify him as a creep or predator before hiring him and employing him for a number of years.

 

[gmajew]

If the CNN story brings a crack down on this issue across every walk of life and every business then it was a success! Anyone that messes with a child is scum! END of STORY! It needs to stop everywhere from the US gov, Churches, Schools, Disney etc. It needs to stop.

How do you crack down on it how do you catch the people doing it the people hiding in plain view to many of us? That is the issue and the bigger problem that no one has been able to address. When a person is caught they should be sentenced like someone that killed a man! Because the damage they do to these children is as bad!

Our laws and our courts need to get tougher and make people realize how wrong it is.... then let these people sit in a cell and worry about getting beat by the other inmates.

 

[sshindel]

I already see that folks here are looking to squash the topic as it makes them feel uncomfortable or because it has substance. That's not going to fly with me. And I don't care how many passive aggressive PML fans are whining to @The Mom or @wdwmagic. When a story reaches CNN, no matter what you think of the organization, it is newsworthy. Anderson Cooper is widely respected in journalism circles and the piece that was run tonight appeared quite fair (unless, of course, you don't want to hear about WDW -- and UNI -- hiring pedophiles, some who tried to arrange meetings with children while working at WDW on WDW property using WDW computers while being paid by TWDC).

I see that the PML is becoming a new cause for you to rail against. It's been coming up more and more recently. A few quick notes.
a) Anyone is free to become a premium member. $5 a month (or less if you buy annually) that goes to a very worthy cause, helping this site stay afloat. One of the perks is said PML, where a very many highly important topics are discussed. Yesterday there was a deep, serious discussion on comedy films, with a large series of quotes from the movie Airplane and History of the World.
b) Just like you'd find anywhere in the entire forum, there are members that enjoy your threads, your information, and your posting style, and others that don't. I'm sure this isn't a shock to you, nor should it be to anyone. I'm sure there are people that can't stand seeing my avatar pop up knowing that a post with little substance (or a massive rant about the former glory of EPCOT) is coming up. Personally, I fall into the group that enjoys reading you. Others dont. I think it honestly tickles you to know that you're a topic on the tongues of many posters on these forums, because it means whether or not someone agrees with you, people are discussing the topics you would want discussed.
c) Even if there is the occasional question as to the moderation of the forum in the PML, as anyone is able to do with the "report" feature, I can report (as can anyone who reads in there and reports back to you) that the Mods @The Mom and @wdwmagic treat those requests like they would any other member of the forums. In fact, we get the same response as anyone else would get, "If you think a post is out of line, use the report feature".
d) As you might know from anyone who is reading in there and talking to you afterwards, last night there was almost NO discussion on the CNN story (aside from someone speaking of it and then noting that it was being discussed in this here thread). There were no requests or conspiracies to get the mods, or others, to come in and quash the discussion. This morning there has been some light debate on the topic, just as there has been in this thread, but MUCH less-so than in here.

I think that your main issue is that you feel it's a "secret" area (which it isn't) where people talk about other posters behind their backs without confronting them directly. I'd argue that with the private message conversation feature on the forum, that this is a feature that is available (and likely used quite often) to any other member of the forums. I know you have many PM conversations with people, most of which are likely about the topics in which you'd like to discuss with others, I have no knowledge or implication that you use the feature to talk about other posters, but I'd be willing to place money that the PM feature IS used in that manner by other posters. The only difference between that and the PML (which again, is mostly used as a general Chit Chat section) is that it is common knowledge that anything said in the PML can and will be seen by anyone who feels like paying the site owner the sum of $5. There is no secret knock, no handshake. Just the willingness to financially support a website we enjoy using. Private Messages on the other hand unless shared purposefully, will never make it out into the greater world.

Sorry for the sidebar folks. I just felt that instead of taking this post to a secret area, or PM, I'd non-passive-aggressively post in here and invite further questions or comments if so desired.

 

[George]

@George she's on to us! Quick, say something not creepy.

Wait, this isn't a private message... D'oh!

I hope to do lots of non-creepy activities when we eat breakfast together with @Nemo14 and I won't be naked or anything. There, that should do it.

 

[Nemo14]

I hope to do lots of non-creepy activities when we eat breakfast together with @Nemo14 and I won't be naked or anything. There, that should do it.

Great, now I have to worry about what to wear too?

 

[George]

I see that the PML is becoming a new cause for you to rail against. It's been coming up more and more recently. A few quick notes.
a) Anyone is free to become a premium member. $5 a month (or less if you buy annually) that goes to a very worthy cause, helping this site stay afloat. One of the perks is said PML, where a very many highly important topics are discussed. Yesterday there was a deep, serious discussion on comedy films, with a large series of quotes from the movie Airplane and History of the World.
b) Just like you'd find anywhere in the entire forum, there are members that enjoy your threads, your information, and your posting style, and others that don't. I'm sure this isn't a shock to you, nor should it be to anyone. I'm sure there are people that can't stand seeing my avatar pop up knowing that a post with little substance (or a massive rant about the former glory of EPCOT) is coming up. Personally, I fall into the group that enjoys reading you. Others dont. I think it honestly tickles you to know that you're a topic on the tongues of many posters on these forums, because it means whether or not someone agrees with you, people are discussing the topics you would want discussed.
c) Even if there is the occasional question as to the moderation of the forum in the PML, as anyone is able to do with the "report" feature, I can report (as can anyone who reads in there and reports back to you) that the Mods @The Mom and @wdwmagic treat those requests like they would any other member of the forums. In fact, we get the same response as anyone else would get, "If you think a post is out of line, use the report feature".
d) As you might know from anyone who is reading in there and talking to you afterwards, last night there was almost NO discussion on the CNN story (aside from someone speaking of it and then noting that it was being discussed in this here thread). There were no requests or conspiracies to get the mods, or others, to come in and quash the discussion. This morning there has been some light debate on the topic, just as there has been in this thread, but MUCH less-so than in here.

I think that your main issue is that you feel it's a "secret" area (which it isn't) where people talk about other posters behind their backs without confronting them directly. I'd argue that with the private message conversation feature on the forum, that this is a feature that is available (and likely used quite often) to any other member of the forums. I know you have many PM conversations with people, most of which are likely about the topics in which you'd like to discuss with others, I have no knowledge or implication that you use the feature to talk about other posters, but I'd be willing to place money that the PM feature IS used in that manner by other posters. The only difference between that and the PML (which again, is mostly used as a general Chit Chat section) is that it is common knowledge that anything said in the PML can and will be seen by anyone who feels like paying the site owner the sum of $5. There is no secret knock, no handshake. Just the willingness to financially support a website we enjoy using. Private Messages on the other hand unless shared purposefully, will never make it out into the greater world.

Sorry for the sidebar folks. I just felt that instead of taking this post to a secret area, or PM, I'd non-passive-aggressively post in here and invite further questions or comments if so desired.

I'd like to add four points. 1) You should give me warning before joining, since I spend most of my time bad-mouthing everyone and need time to purge my posts. However, that may not be necessary since as near as I can tell most of you morons don't know how to do a simple search. 2) The annual rate, $50/year is a slight discount off the monthly rate. However, as far as I know, I'm the only one smart enough to sign up for the $40,000/millenium rate. That's only 40 bucks/year suckers! 3) Just like out here, many like spirit and many don't. 4) It is in the PML that you can watch videos of "future attractions" thanks to my time travel device.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Whether the agenda was to hurt Disney or not, I would guess any predator considering getting a job at Disney or Uni may think twice after seeing that program last night. Knowing that they are doing sting operations and such may deter a predator from going near the place. (Orlando in general)

I think they should have emphasized that aspect more. They should have pressed the issue more about what's going to be done and how they will catch them just as a precautionary measure, even if it weren't true, it would be a bluff that most predators would fall for. This is all considering that CNN actually had the children's best interest in mind with this story and not just ratings.

These types of stings are not new, nor is reporting on them new. They're really not a deterrent. The hope is just that the fake victim of the sting is the first victim.

How can companies do more? They're not law enforcement agencies nor are these types of operations able to focus on certain industries or companies.

 

[Cesar R M]

Prison for life isn't always the answer.

Pedophilia and hebephilia are mental issues recognized as psychiatric disorders in the DSM. People who participate in these types of behaviors are sick. Prison will not simply fix a mental disorder; some sort of psychiatry is needed to help fix the problem. It's easy to want to quickly throw pedophiles and hebephiles in jail for the rest of their lives without actually sitting down and thinking about the issue.

Not to mention that most of these pedophiles or sufferers of hebephilia were themselves abused when young.
Its a very nasty "chain" that extends constantly.

 

[xdan0920]

I hope to do lots of non-creepy activities when we eat breakfast together with @Nemo14 and I won't be naked or anything. There, that should do it.

I'm convinced!

 

[stevehousse]

Ok anyone else over this CNN topic already cuz I am!

 

[LapsedWDWFan]

Being on the outside of these companies all I can really do is take the piece for face value to form an opinion. I found myself wondering what can these companies do about it.

Other than the CM from Port Orleans using his work computer for this stuff, I didn't see any reports of workplace behavior that would have alerted the company there was anything amiss with these people.

I believe this was already pointed out but no one had a criminal record so I background check would have been useless.

This is one of those slippery slope issues because just the accusation of being a predator is enough to ruin someone. If polygraphs are implemented, a false positive could be enough to hurt an innocent person.

So in the end I'm still left wondering what can they do. What additional screening can be implemented reliably? I just don't know.

 

[wdwmagic]

I see that the PML is becoming a new cause for you to rail against. It's been coming up more and more recently. A few quick notes.
a) Anyone is free to become a premium member. $5 a month (or less if you buy annually) that goes to a very worthy cause, helping this site stay afloat. One of the perks is said PML, where a very many highly important topics are discussed. Yesterday there was a deep, serious discussion on comedy films, with a large series of quotes from the movie Airplane and History of the World.
b) Just like you'd find anywhere in the entire forum, there are members that enjoy your threads, your information, and your posting style, and others that don't. I'm sure this isn't a shock to you, nor should it be to anyone. I'm sure there are people that can't stand seeing my avatar pop up knowing that a post with little substance (or a massive rant about the former glory of EPCOT) is coming up. Personally, I fall into the group that enjoys reading you. Others dont. I think it honestly tickles you to know that you're a topic on the tongues of many posters on these forums, because it means whether or not someone agrees with you, people are discussing the topics you would want discussed.
c) Even if there is the occasional question as to the moderation of the forum in the PML, as anyone is able to do with the "report" feature, I can report (as can anyone who reads in there and reports back to you) that the Mods @The Mom and @wdwmagic treat those requests like they would any other member of the forums. In fact, we get the same response as anyone else would get, "If you think a post is out of line, use the report feature".
d) As you might know from anyone who is reading in there and talking to you afterwards, last night there was almost NO discussion on the CNN story (aside from someone speaking of it and then noting that it was being discussed in this here thread). There were no requests or conspiracies to get the mods, or others, to come in and quash the discussion. This morning there has been some light debate on the topic, just as there has been in this thread, but MUCH less-so than in here.

I think that your main issue is that you feel it's a "secret" area (which it isn't) where people talk about other posters behind their backs without confronting them directly. I'd argue that with the private message conversation feature on the forum, that this is a feature that is available (and likely used quite often) to any other member of the forums. I know you have many PM conversations with people, most of which are likely about the topics in which you'd like to discuss with others, I have no knowledge or implication that you use the feature to talk about other posters, but I'd be willing to place money that the PM feature IS used in that manner by other posters. The only difference between that and the PML (which again, is mostly used as a general Chit Chat section) is that it is common knowledge that anything said in the PML can and will be seen by anyone who feels like paying the site owner the sum of $5. There is no secret knock, no handshake. Just the willingness to financially support a website we enjoy using. Private Messages on the other hand unless shared purposefully, will never make it out into the greater world.

Sorry for the sidebar folks. I just felt that instead of taking this post to a secret area, or PM, I'd non-passive-aggressively post in here and invite further questions or comments if so desired.

Thanks for posting. You are absolutely correct. I'm not sure what @WDW1974 is getting at with the PML references. As you say, anyone can join and take part in that discussion. Unlike Twitter, or private messages, or even email - where you have to be invited into the discussion. I don't see the issue.

Upgrade to a WDWMAGIC Premium Account

 

[Cesar R M]

Delete these threads? really? I think we've all pointed out that this is a societal problem, not a theme park problem, but I don't think pretending it doesn't exist or sprinkling a little pixie dust on it will make it go away. The problem should be addressed, and as we have so civilly discussed, it does not have an easy solution.

ignore him. seascape is again going mental.

And he was fired, no? What more could be done? No more CM computer access? Put another CM in charge of watching another CM, like a buddy system of spies?



Oh. I was wondering why you bring this up so often. And I know, I can't ask that, because it makes me look like I don't care about the larger issue.



Can you define "fanboi" please?

If you are talking about adults who are fans of the theme parks in the extreme, and I suspect you are. Then who gives a flying crap, if they hook up with Imagineers? Why does it matter what two consenting adults get up to in their personal lives?

15 pages of discussion regarding this CNN report, and all I get out of it is that Disney should do more to prevent it, but no one knows what more they reasonably could do. Disney is dealing with an issue that all major employers and society as a whole is dealing with. And it seems to me they are doing at least as good a job as anyone else.

Honestly, the only issue I seen with Disney.. was not giving a clear statement as Universal ( on dealing swiftly with the employees who break the law).

But If other posters are right, they actually did.. just not to CNN


but like @PhotoDave219 said before.. the CNN story clearly was more for sensationalism than a well levelled report this problem needs.

It seems the news-outlets burned the story of the Church-Priest abuse scandals too much and they had to rely on something as iconic as Disney to make their move.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

So did anyone see the new iPhone app called "MagicBand Budget?"
Interesting...
For $2.99 you can track your spending! Maybe if enough people buy it, they will be able to afford to buy an actual magicband for their ads!

*not an official Disney app.

 

[xdan0920]

So did anyone see the new iPhone app called "MagicBand Budget?"
Interesting...
For $2.99 you can track your spending! Maybe if enough people buy it, they will be able to afford to buy an actual magicband for their ads!

Yay, an over complicated solution for a problem that shouldn't exist!

 

[GoofGoof]

Obviously child predators are horrible, and I hope all businesses -especially those that cater to children do everything possible to keep these people away.

Here's my issue - '74 confirmed that he went to CNN with this story sometime in the last year, and obviously has a vested interest in getting the news out. He also said that he found out yesterday morning that it was going to air last night.

THEN.....he posted here that he had some big news to drop on us, getting everyone all worked up, and ensuring that all of us little minions were here waiting for his post with baited breath. So everyone gets excited, and we keep coming back and checking, and checking....and when he posts, it's to tell us to watch this news story, which of course we all do (mission accomplished).

...and now the big news mysteriously has to wait a few days, until we've had enough time to discuss the topic that he wants to discuss. Okay, I get it. Your news, post it when you want, but I can't help but feel like the kid with the decoder ring -"Remember to drink your Ovaltine."

I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but I think you might be reaching a little. I doubt that the hint of Spirited news was just a ploy to get us to watch the CNN piece.

This is a serious issue with a connection to WDW that's a little more important than some rumors about magic bands, hotel occupancy or cuts in EMHs. I happen to agree with photodave and others that this particular story was not well done, but it brings to light a serious, widespread issue that deserves some discussion time. At the very least it keeps people thinking about the issue.

The other info will come eventually. No point in dropping it into this discussion anyway. It's moving way to fast.