The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[PhotoDave219]

This is about the most insane thing I have heard in a long time...

You'd be surprised how far the rabbit hole goes down when you're on the front lines....

 

[LithiumBill]

I'd like to think this isn't the pinnacle of design, just the start of an amazing new age of creativity in the business.

THIS! Yes, this is why everyone should be rooting for UNI to succeed with this level of detail, because eventually, all other parks need to take notice, and step things up!

I wonder, @WDW1974 , what you think the best way to theme Star Wars into DHS? What would be the ideal experience / attraction / level of detail?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Even though I think @PhotoDave219 is an a-hole he is correct. You would be amazed at some of the stuff they used to have available for purchase at Property Control. Things that were purchased...and never used. #Velodrome

Dont worry, the feeling is mutual.

 

[danlb_2000]

It's a brilliant way to take people money and buy a 2 day park to park ticket rather than a 2 day ticket, one day in each park. It's a rip off and everyone knows it. Just like the Disney land 2 park ticket. You can't see everything in both parks in a day, you need 2 days at Universal and probably more than 2 days at DLR. Both companies are ripping off the customers with these tickets but Universal is worse because the only way to ride HE is with a park to park ticket.

You may not like it, but millions of people will pay it without hesitation.

 

[stlphil]

I don't know what can be gained from talking to/with folks who always agree with everything you say.

One of the pleasures of this MAGICal forum is being able to talk to crazy poopie-heads such as YOU!!!

One of the pleasures of this MAGICal forum has been watching debates between you and Flynn. I find it fascinating that often the more you two seemingly agree on a topic the more, uh, intense the argument (I originally used the term "hot and heavy" but didn't want to provide low-hanging fruit for the inevitable jokes). The nuance of those arguments has been entertaining, but more importantly has been greatly informative.

However, it seems of late that your views are much more aligned, with less disagreement. My theory is that Disney's levels of greed and incompetence have elevated to the point that there is very little room left for nuance to an objective viewer.

 

[WildcatDen]

Also, a word to the wise. Disney watches these boards and this thread in particular.

Ooohhh. Let me straighten my tie and add another coat to my wingtips. . . Any openings in Supply Chain down there? SAP experienced.

 

[WildcatDen]

low-hanging fruit for the inevitable jokes

May I suggest Boxer Briefs? A good pair rolleyes keep the 'fruit' in place.

 

[asianway]

If you really want to see something disgusting look at the carpet in the corners of any hotel room, Disney included. The corners will look brand new, compare that to traffic areas. I have never seen any place as bad as the All Stars or Pop Century.

@WDW1974 did they use PDQ Consulting? Those guys are scum

 

[CDavid]

Aren't you the one who's paying 5k for 4 nights at WDW?? Because you think it would cost the same if you stayed off property?? And you've never ever even been to WDW?? You should probably wait until you actually go before you comment about others.

You have got to be kidding - $5,000 for four nights? I would humbly submit that if someone is paying that outrageous a price, they need to check more thoroughly into Disney resorts, pricing, and amenities. Quickly.

The ordering of food can be done at BOG for lunch with fast pass. What's wrong with that? If you do it, your food is at your table right after you sit down. Lots of restaurants are using an automated ordering system now, why should you have to wait till your inside the restaurant to do that? Again no one has to order in advance but why do you want to make me waste my time? Is it that you know best for everyone else and everyone has to do things the way you want? Let me take advantage of technology and enjoy my vacation the way I want.

So you think I should be excluded from anything other than fast food because I want to use technology that saves me time? How nice of you to feel that everyone has to live and eat the way you say. Must be nice to be so powerful and controlling of others. I think everyone should be free to use technology to save time, you obviously don't.

First, you have edited a quotation from my post in such a way to change the context of what I said. Please do not attempt to twist what I or others have said.

Second, nobody has said anything about wasting your time, restraining you from technology, controlling how you live, or taking your away your personal freedoms. That's a red herring.

The problem with ordering meals far in advance is the absurdity of pretending guests will know today what they are going to want for lunch a week from next Tuesday. Further, the primary advantage the option pre-ordering provides is to rush guests through the dining experience, to get them out the door and another party seated as quickly as possible. That's a good thing from Disney's perspective, but its rather poor customer service. Most people want to take their time and enjoy an experience - lunch at a Disney restaurant - for which they are paying premium prices. It is not something the majority of guests just want to get over with. If diners just want to get out as fast as possible to move on to the next experience to rush through, they would have just grabbed a bite at Casey's Corner or something.

Just like there is the occasional kid who honestly prefers celery sticks over a Mickey Ice-cream bar, there are a few obsessive-planner types who think a Disney vacation should be planned down to the minute. For them, pre-ordering meals weeks in advance makes sense, perhaps, but for the other 99% its just silly. I'm not completely sure its an exaggeration to say some families objective is not to enjoy themselves but to work the plan they've crafted no matter what, and get the parks done as soon as possible!

 

[71jason]

You're being overly dramatic now. not need to bring your overzealous "patriotism" nor your politics paranoia to a restaurant talk.

Future reference, far more effective to report a troll for bringing politics up rather than feeding him by responding.

 

[flynnibus]

However, it seems of late that your views are much more aligned, with less disagreement. My theory is that Disney's levels of greed and incompetence have elevated to the point that there is very little room left for nuance to an objective viewer.

Simply topic shifts I think...

 

[jt04]

Is that a threat or a promise?

It is a promise if I find out they have broadband.

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

Maybe the aspiring pundits should understand the resort and it's visitor patterns/behaviors before trying to draw conclusions?

What are the visitor patterns/behaviors? Wouldn't filling high profit hotel rooms be paramount? If filling hotel rooms is not important or part of the visitor patterns/ behaviors why did they just build the new value resort? Pretty head scratching business plan.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Re: reading over the last several pages of discussion about the MM+ situation in Orlando and the thoughts about how the lines, thanks to FP+, are still long and those "pressure release valve" attractions like Pirates and Mansion that we all use to flock to when the parks got busy because they could consume guests with their hourly capacity - those rides now have significantly longer and slowing moving lines.

I for one am shocked.

A complex system designed to take guests out of line for really popular attractions by giving them the perpection of value in a reservation at an attraction that would have minimal wait time, isn't having the resort wide guest satisfaction it was designed to?

No matter how you slice it, there is not magical <pun intended> fix for increasing capacity other than adding actual capacity. You do so by either putting more people through attraction lines. This can be done by either increasing the number of people in an attraction at any given time (more seats per ride vehicle or more seats in a theater), reducing the amount of time in an attraction (speed up the ride or shorten the show), or... adding more attractions.

Let's get out the white board and see how Orlando is applying this formula:

Number of people per attraction cycle - this one is hard to accomplish due to the very nature of how rides and attractions work. It's hard to put more seats on a ride vehicle because the rides are engineered around the stresses and forces placed on the vehicle. For shows, it's a bit easier to find space to squeeze in seats. Studios recently did this for Fantasmic!. That's the only attraction I can think of that has been "plussed" in a way to add capacity. I'll give TDO a C- for this effort. *That is unless you want to call nuking the Hub in a way to squeeze more FP+ cattle in for Wishes. If that is the case, then A+ for TDO <rolls eyes>

Reducing the amount of time in an attraction - this one is unfortunately way too easy to accomplish. It has already been done for many attractions. Reduce down the cycle time on a spinner or take a section of a show out. The most recent example of this was with the Country Bear Jamboree. A perfect example of the madness of FP+. Since they were anticpating more guests being steered towards the attractions with historically minimal waits, they took the latest refurb as an opportunity to prune some songs out of the show to squeeze in a few extra cycles per day. This "minus-ed" behavior of cutting show quality could easily be applied to Omnimovers by speeding up the belt slightly. Prior to Mermaid opening, there was discussion about if MK's would run an at a faster speed than DCA's. Of course if you speed up the ride, you then have to maintain it... a double edged sword for TDO indeed. I'll give TDO a solid B+ for their efforts into cutting show quality to "improve" capacity for everyone's betterment. Such swell people to keep us in mind.

now the big one,

Adding more attractions - Let's see... just give me a moment to review this extensive list of every added attraction to the resort over the last 10 years. Surely there is some capacity to be found there. Hey, Mermaid is an Omnimover that replaced a low capacity dark ride, that gained a few hundred guests per hour. Captain Jack Sparrow's projector show can cram in a few. Belle's meet and greet, but, not really a meet and greet can get a bit of a line even if it can't put through great numbers. Toy Story Midway Mania certainly has great capacity - er, well if you think ~1000 per hour is great. I'm sure there's a few others that are slipping my mind. TDO has certainly added attraction capacity at a 1:1 ratio to overall attendance increases right?

There in lay the entire problem in Orlando - there is no desire to increase actual capacity. MM+ was designed around the concept of not having to spend on attractions. It was a "magic bean" sold by the bean counters to virtually increase resort capacity. A very high tech version of the shell game to make you think you can come out ahead.

You can't make something from nothing.

If your happiness at a WDW vacation was previously predicated by a repeat visit to something like the Haunted Mansion because of its fast moving lines... those days are now as dead as the Hatbox Ghost.

 

[Bairstow]

Re: reading over the last several pages of discussion about the MM+ situation in Orlando and the thoughts about how the lines, thanks to FP+, are still long and those "pressure release valve" attractions like Pirates and Mansion that we all use to flock to when the parks got busy because they could consume guests with their hourly capacity - those rides now have significantly longer and slowing moving lines.

I for one am shocked.

A complex system designed to take guests out of line for really popular attractions by giving them the perpection of value in a reservation at an attraction that would have minimal wait time, isn't having the resort wide guest satisfaction it was designed to?

No matter how you slice it, there is not magical <pun intended> fix for increasing capacity other than adding actual capacity. You do so by either putting more people through attraction lines. This can be done by either increasing the number of people in an attraction at any given time (more seats per ride vehicle or more seats in a theater), reducing the amount of time in an attraction (speed up the ride or shorten the show), or... adding more attractions.

Let's get out the white board and see how Orlando is applying this formula:

Number of people per attraction cycle - this one is hard to accomplish due to the very nature of how rides and attractions work. It's hard to put more seats on a ride vehicle because the rides are engineered around the stresses and forces placed on the vehicle. For shows, it's a bit easier to find space to squeeze in seats. Studios recently did this for Fantasmic!. That's the only attraction I can think of that has been "plussed" in a way to add capacity. I'll give TDO a C- for this effort. *That is unless you want to call nuking the Hub in a way to squeeze more FP+ cattle in for Wishes. If that is the case, then A+ for TDO <rolls eyes>

Reducing the amount of time in an attraction - this one is unfortunately way too easy to accomplish. It has already been done for many attractions. Reduce down the cycle time on a spinner or take a section of a show out. The most recent example of this was with the Country Bear Jamboree. A perfect example of the madness of FP+. Since they were anticpating more guests being steered towards the attractions with historically minimal waits, they took the latest refurb as an opportunity to prune some songs out of the show to squeeze in a few extra cycles per day. This "minus-ed" behavior of cutting show quality could easily be applied to Omnimovers by speeding up the belt slightly. Prior to Mermaid opening, there was discussion about if MK's would run an at a faster speed than DCA's. Of course if you speed up the ride, you then have to maintain it... a double edged sword for TDO indeed. I'll give TDO a solid B+ for their efforts into cutting show quality to "improve" capacity for everyone's betterment. Such swell people to keep us in mind.

now the big one,

Adding more attractions - Let's see... just give me a moment to review this extensive list of every added attraction to the resort over the last 10 years. Surely there is some capacity to be found there. Hey, Mermaid is an Omnimover that replaced a low capacity dark ride, that gained a few hundred guests per hour. Captain Jack Sparrow's projector show can cram in a few. Belle's meet and greet, but, not really a meet and greet can get a bit of a line even if it can't put through great numbers. Toy Story Midway Mania certainly has great capacity - er, well if you think ~1000 per hour is great. I'm sure there's a few others that are slipping my mind. TDO has certainly added attraction capacity at a 1:1 ratio to overall attendance increases right?

There in lay the entire problem in Orlando - there is no desire to increase actual capacity. MM+ was designed around the concept of not having to spend on attractions. It was a "magic bean" sold by the bean counters to virtually increase resort capacity. A very high tech version of the shell game to make you think you can come out ahead.

You can't make something from nothing.

If your happiness at a WDW vacation was previously predicated by a repeat visit to something like the Haunted Mansion because of its fast moving lines... those days are now as dead as the Hatbox Ghost.

All that's very well and good, but maybe their problem is that adding New Fantasyland and advertising the bands is working too well?
Couldn't attendance just be higher than expected?

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

Anyone ever stop and wonder if Disney built two new E-tickets at MK it might mske the park even more crowded than it already is?

 

[GLaDOS]

How long out should people make Universal reservations for the DA opening? Its a little odd a quick check reveals you still have a myriad of choices for where to stay that week on Universal property, including all the Lowes resorts. Maybe the pundits might be correct in predicting it might not be as successful as phase one?

Not exactly sure what your point is here. Diagon Alley won't be as successful because you can still book rooms on property? The resorts didn't fill up last time either, and the line was still backed up to the parking garage to get in.

 

[Cesar R M]

Anyone ever stop and wonder if Disney built two new E-tickets at MK it might mske the park even more crowded than it already is?

It would actually spread more crowds from the other rides.
Thus balancing the load. (and keeping more people busy in the attractions and less in the walkways)

Unless Disney decided "OH LOL WE ADDED 2 E TICKETS, LETS EXPAND OUR MAXIMUM DAILY CAPACITY FROM 250,000 PPL TO 300,000 FOR NO REAL REASON!"

 

[flynnibus]

What are the visitor patterns/behaviors? Wouldn't filling high profit hotel rooms be paramount? If filling hotel rooms is not important or part of the visitor patterns/ behaviors why did they just build the new value resort? Pretty head scratching business plan.

If you can't continue with coherent trains of thought.. this will be my last reply to any of your posts.

No one said filling hotel rooms is not important - but that doesn't mean the hotel room availability is the tracker for the resort's crowd levels (your assertion). UNI's resorts represent only a tiny portion of their visitors (hence why they could give them all front of the line passes).

In addition, they just announced the opening date less than a week ago.

 

[lebeau]

It is a promise if I find out they have broadband.

That would completely defeat the purpose.