The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
seascape said:
But you used percentages of total revenue which given the very nature of Comcast it's misleading. If you wanted to value each companies theme parks separately that would be one thing but your analysis doesn't work. The companies are different and that is why total market value is what matters.

On the other hand looking at Comcast it may be worth much more broken up. With approximately 30 million cable subscribers the cable division alone is worth between 30 and 45 billion using a number between $1,000 and $1,500 per subscriber. I would say based on that Wall Street grossly under values Comcast and it should be broken up.
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I'll try one last time.

I AM NOT COMPARING COMCAST TO DISNEY BASED ON TOTAL REVENUE. I am not trying to prove which company is better, bigger, more loved or worth more. This was not a debate of who is better Disney or Comcast. @ParentsOf4 was discussing how Iger and Disney get a lot of pressure from Wall Street on controlling P&R capital spend. Another poster (sorry forgot who) asked how Wall Street felt about Comcast's spend on Universal and if they got the same pressure to curb spending. My response was that the Theme Park segment is a much less significant portion of Comcast's total business compared to P&R at Disney and gave some numbers to back it up:

Comcast:
Total Revenue $64.7B Theme park $2.2B 3.4% of revenue
Total Operating income $21.4B Theme park $1.0B 4.7% of operating income before depreciation

Disney:
Total Revenue $45.0B P&R $14.1B 31.3% of revenue
Total operating income $10.7B P&R $2.2B 20.6% of revenue

You don't like revenue, that's fine, but it's something most people understand. Theme parks are less than 5% of total operating income before depreciation at Comcast vs over 20% at Disney. Operating income before depreciation is essentially free cash flow from the segment. I'm not sure how you can dispute that theme parks are a bigger part of Disney's business than Comcast's. You want to look at total market cap of both companies, but how will that help to understand the impact of theme parks to the company?
 
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Bolna

Well-Known Member
dupac said:
Remember the Frontierland rumor? the TSI rumor? Is this a similar situation in terms of conflicting sources and a lot of unknown people with information? I did a search but can't tell. I just remember that those were rumors that popped up strong and fast, then died.
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I have been reading this site for over a decade now - as it is the best place to come and read about all kind of fun rumours. I would say there are all kind of dynamics going on, there is not a specific pattern how rumours come to life. The most reliable ones seem to come from one of the "known insiders" here on the board and then when one posts about it, often another one can verify it as well. With the Fantasyland expansion there was suddenly a post on here with the blueprint of the whole expansion (the infamous meet& greet version) that @wdwmagic pulled very quickly (if I remember correctly), but by then it had been copied by others so kept floating around the internet. Then there are also always crazy new people coming in, claiming that they have inside knowledge and come up with some stories. After some time those stories are exposed as hot air. However, over the last few years it seems there is a new class of rumour: the wishful thinking one. It seems that the Disney fans are so dried out with exciting theme park news that the smallest spark can ignite huge fires. People are so quick to jump to conclusions.

And I understand why this happens, the exciting Disney news draught has been going for a long time! The next big thing to come to WDW is Avatar - I still remember how it was announced just briefly before my trip to WDW in October 2011. And then while I was in Orlando and reading around on wdwmagic (yes, I know, why do I do that on vacation - but it's Disney's fault for giving me free wifi and it makes good bedtime reading) I found these posts by @WDW1974:

WDW1974 said:
Exactly ... and UNI has some amazing things headed down the pike. Potter Phase II has grown so large that it has outgrown IOA ... it's like in that movie Jaws 'we're going to need a bigger park' :animwink: ... or is that 'we're going to need to borrow some land for an existing one?':D

Disney hasn't raised the bar in any real way attraction wise (in an existing park) in the O-Town market since ToT in 1994. You could make an argument that KS raised the bar when DAK opened in 1998.

But either way, nothing this CENTURY. :eek:

And, trust me, the very average Little Mermaid ride sure as hell ain't gonna do it.

Oh, and Spidey and Co are staying put ... but pretty much 97% of all fanbois not named JT know that.:king:

~GFC~
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WDW1974 said:
I don't know that I'd go that far. But WWoHP is absolutely the most impressive O-town theme park development of this century BY FAR ... and just wait for Phase II ... so big it's going to be in TWO PARKS! (no, I am not kidding! kiss the plastic sharkie bye-bye!:))

UNI is upping their game and I've seen nothing to show Disney even gets they have a problem beyond the Hail Mary for Avatar, which is so far out in terms of being built, I can't even offer a real opinion because so much can/will change.
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WDW1974 said:
All I can say is if there's one thing scarier than a shark it's a woman with the initials JKR when she sees plans she doesn't like! :drevil:
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WDW1974 said:
It looks like Transformers isn't coming here, after all ... basically because there's too much other stuff on the way, including Potter's HUGE, mind-blowing expansion.

~GFC~
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WDW1974 said:
I haven't seen the plans (and am not going to go over them like a fanboi with the Fantasyland redo art when I do) ... but, yes, they will be removing and moving quite a bit ... but this satisfies Rowling and allows UNI to reap Potter benefits in two gates instead of one.

And I am very much looking forward to it.

Jaws has had its time ...
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WDW1974 said:
Nope. Both expanding in IOA and BEYOND ... and I just heard it this week, but have had it confirmed by two others.

That be the plan ... apparently connected by the Hogwarts Express.

But Amity, Jaws and Fear Factor stage (which isn't used most of the time) would cease to exist under the plan.

~GFC~
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2 years and 8 month later there is land being cleared at AK for Avatar and Diagonalley is about to open in the area that used to be Amity. Oh, and the Transformers ride that @WDW1974 said would not come because so many other things were coming to Universal? It seems to have been open for quite some time already... :cool:

As a Disney fan that makes me horribly envious - I want that for WDW as well! And it feels like there used to be fare more exciting rumours that were based in reality were around in the past for WDW. That's why I say that WDW fans are experiencing a serious draught in big theme park news!
 
dupac

dupac

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
In all fairness, it wasn't.

TF was greenlit literally in one morning and caught a lot of people, including high ups within the same park, off guard.

Quite a day that was.
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I realize that things are fluid. Ideas are thrown around only to be shelved to look at later. Etc. I never expect you all to be 100% right! No one should. And just because you weren't right doesn't mean you weren't right AT SOME POINT. I appreciate all you insiders do. :)

My main point of my post regarding old rumors was just one of curiosity. I just wondered if rumors like these and the Indy one are planted, if fans latch on to sterile facts (an attraction closing) and explode them into maps and diagrams of expansion areas, or if it's like a giant game of Telephone. Probably a mixture.
 
S

seascape

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
I'll try one last time.

I AM NOT COMPARING COMCAST TO DISNEY BASED ON TOTAL REVENUE. I am not trying to prove which company is better, bigger, more loved or worth more. This was not a debate of who is better Disney or Comcast. @ParentsOf4 was discussing how Iger and Disney get a lot of pressure from Wall Street on controlling P&R capital spend. Another poster (sorry forgot who) asked how Wall Street felt about Comcast's spend on Universal and if they got the same pressure to curb spending. My response was that the Theme Park segment is a much less significant portion of Comcast's total business compared to P&R at Disney and gave some numbers to back it up:

Comcast:
Total Revenue $64.7B Theme park $2.2B 3.4% of revenue
Total Operating income $21.4B Theme park $1.0B 4.7% of operating income before depreciation

Disney:
Total Revenue $45.0B P&R $14.1B 31.3% of revenue
Total operating income $10.7B P&R $2.2B 20.6% of revenue

You don't like revenue, that's fine, but it's something most people understand. Theme parks are less than 5% of total operating income before depreciation at Comcast vs over 20% at Disney. Operating income before depreciation is essentially free cash flow from the segment. I'm not sure how you can dispute that theme parks are a bigger part of Disney's business than Comcast's. You want to look at total market cap of both companies, but how will that help to understand the impact of theme parks to the company?
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There are too many issues which have to be taken into account which you leave out. For example.when.the hotels at Flamingo Crossing open and start paying Disney just like those at hotel row and the hotels at universal the money counts as revenue and 100 percent profit because the depreciation is on another company. I am not saying you can't compare the two companies.just that you left some major things out.

That said I do agree that Comcast is valued as a cable company with other businesses while Disney is valued as an entertainment and theme park company. But universal is grossly undervalued and should be broken up. Cable companies have a value of over $1,000 per subscriber. That alone would value Comcast at 30 billion. Add the programming and parks and the value should be much higher than Disney. Comcast should be broken up.
 
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Hyperspace Hoopla

Hyperspace Hoopla

Well-Known Member
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Bolna said:
As a Disney fan that makes me horribly envious - I want that for WDW as well! And it feels like there used to be fare more exciting rumours that were based in reality were around in the past for WDW. That's why I say that WDW fans are experiencing a serious draught in big theme park news!
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I don't understand. Why in the world would anyone be envious. All anyone needs to do is go to Uni and see it. It's just up the road a few miles. Uni is a very good park (2), there is no reason why both cannot be enjoyed. The more Uni puts in there the more things I can go see when I'm in the area. There really is nothing to lose. The Disney police will not lock you up if you spend a day or so in the "other" place.
 
Fe Maiden

Fe Maiden

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
I'll try one last time.

I AM NOT COMPARING COMCAST TO DISNEY BASED ON TOTAL REVENUE. I am not trying to prove which company is better, bigger, more loved or worth more. This was not a debate of who is better Disney or Comcast. @ParentsOf4 was discussing how Iger and Disney get a lot of pressure from Wall Street on controlling P&R capital spend. Another poster (sorry forgot who) asked how Wall Street felt about Comcast's spend on Universal and if they got the same pressure to curb spending. My response was that the Theme Park segment is a much less significant portion of Comcast's total business compared to P&R at Disney and gave some numbers to back it up:

Comcast:
Total Revenue $64.7B Theme park $2.2B 3.4% of revenue
Total Operating income $21.4B Theme park $1.0B 4.7% of operating income before depreciation

Disney:
Total Revenue $45.0B P&R $14.1B 31.3% of revenue
Total operating income $10.7B P&R $2.2B 20.6% of revenue

You don't like revenue, that's fine, but it's something most people understand. Theme parks are less than 5% of total operating income before depreciation at Comcast vs over 20% at Disney. Operating income before depreciation is essentially free cash flow from the segment. I'm not sure how you can dispute that theme parks are a bigger part of Disney's business than Comcast's. You want to look at total market cap of both companies, but how will that help to understand the impact of theme parks to the company?
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My wife and I have 3 kids and they are all great, but sometimes they can be annoying as all #$%^! (my 11yo thinks he's 15, my 5yo acts like she's 17, and my 8yo just tries to make sure he's not forgotten). And when they are particularly annoying we break out the "magic sledgehammer", it's more of an invisible sledgehammer, but it does have magical qualities because when I whack them over the head with it I suddenly feel so much better.

You've certainly earned the opportunity to whack seascape with it. Sorry 'scape, but my god!
 
T

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I don't understand. Why in the world would anyone be envious. All anyone needs to do is go to Uni and see it. It's just up the road a few miles. Uni is a very good park (2), there is no reason why both cannot be enjoyed. The more Uni puts in there the more things I can go see when I'm in the area. There really is nothing to lose. The Disney police will not lock you up if you spend a day or so in the "other" place.
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well said
when I first joined here I was shocked to see so many that are only fans of Disney/universal
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I don't understand. Why in the world would anyone be envious. All anyone needs to do is go to Uni and see it. It's just up the road a few miles. Uni is a very good park (2), there is no reason why both cannot be enjoyed. The more Uni puts in there the more things I can go see when I'm in the area. There really is nothing to lose. The Disney police will not lock you up if you spend a day or so in the "other" place.
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Disney has been able to create emotional attachments Universal has not yet been able to replicate. I would say that a good many people here are Disney fans despite being excited about what is happening at Universal Orlando Resort. That means to some degree there will always be a desire to see the excite at Walt Disney World over it being at other attractions (and the idea of the others pushing Disney to do more is a delusional fantasy).
 

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