The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[flynnibus]

I agree with what I think is your general point that inflation needs to be taken into consideration when comparing hotel prices. Any comparison of hotel prices from prior years needs to factor in inflation and the larger economic climate.

However, as a business traveler, I rarely pay over $225/night for some of the nicest hotels in most North American and European cities, including for 2-room suites. (Prices in London and some Far East counties are just nasty though.) When corporate rates are available, I can pay under $100/night in the U.S.

It's not about extremes tho.. my point was the middle has moved up dramatically.

Even with corporate rates.. I pay $110-$150/night in markets like SanJose. I had to pay $130/night in freakin Wisconsin last week.. staying in Manhatten is 200-300/night easy.

I'm not saying Disney isn't overpriced - I just think some of the reference points are dated and impractical now.

I can't find a NICE hotel offsite that can sleep my family for $60-80/night. Maybe if I stuffed in a motel room or something.. but practical is more like $100-120 as a reasonable expectation. So if Disney charges $120-150... with some areas plus/minus from the other... they are in the ball park. If an upgraded room were in the $200 range... that's what I would expect.

That doesn't mean I think their $300-$500 rates are grounded in anything but insanity... but I also don't think their value/mods are 2-3x overpriced. Just overpriced by a margin many might justify. Personally I find the amenities of the room in the values more deplorable then the price. I think the minimum standard is too low for a Disney property.

I think the UNI properties are overpriced as well... but they can be justified because of the Express pass perk. Canbana I have to think about yet..

Still need to decide where to stay when we hit uni in November.. or if I decide to skip Uni and maybe try discovery cove.

 

[Cesar R M]

True....except my local news station talked about how he got hurt. That would be considered a spoiler by many. I won't mention it here, although I'm through ADwD, so I fear no reprisal.

After seeing Peter Mayhew at SWW, Star Wars fans should be less concerned with spoilers and more concerned with how a 70 year old man who just had double knee replacement surgery and can barely walk 5 feet with a cane is going to reprise his role as Chewbacca. I also thought it was funny that he had to do his autograph session indoors because of the sun/heat, but was supposedly off to film SW7, shooting in the middle of a desert.

EDIT: That came off sort of harsh. I love Peter Mayhew, and wish him the best. I'm glad he's back, and wouldn't want to see anyone else play Chewie. I just hope they can use some movie magic to make Chewie more mobile....

but we're not talking about your local station lol, we're talking about a linked news.

anyway.. I suppose they wanted to squeeze as much hype as possible by using the original actors.
Else fans would be crying foul after the horrible second trilogy (and replacing the original Anakin with the young brat that cant even act)

 

[Cesar R M]

That's mainly a WDW thing.

I've noticed they have vendors working longer lines at Disneyland. Pirates or Splash Mountain on a busy day will have Coke vendors come through. I've bought ice cream bars while waiting in the Submarine Voyage extended queue in Tomorrowland. And in Cars Land they have vendors inside the queues on busy days.

Here's some kids in 1950's service station outfits selling drinks and popcorn in the interior queue for Luigi's Flying Tires in Cars Land.

Here's a young lady selling chocolate covered bananas in the long Standby queue for Radiator Springs Racers.

that looks nice!
I still wonder why they never implement these in WDW!

*edit*
I was watching the Waldorf Astoria.
That hotel looks damn well!

 

[Nemo14]

In general, people are willing to pay more to stay onsite. Disney could not charge the prices they do if this was not true. The question is: How much more?

If, for example, Disney offered onsite guests unlimited FP+, I think we'd agree that occupancy would improve, even at the current prices. If Disney offered this to only Grand Floridian guests, then I suspect Grand Floridian occupancy would approach something close to 100%.

My point is that each perk (such as Disney's Magical Express) adds value to staying onsite. This doesn't mean that staying onsite costs the same as staying offsite when all expenses are taken into consideration. It means that the gap in cost between staying onsite and offsite is sufficiently small enough for guests to say to themselves, "This onsite benefit makes it worth it to me to stay onsite."

The mental calculation that occurs in everyone's head is different. Each consumer has their own price point. However, in general, as Disney adds perceived value to staying onsite, the number of people staying onsite will increase.

But sooner or later, don't you think the perceived value vs. the actual cost in hard-earned money will tip the balance to the point where people will flock to the Wonderful World of Offsite Accommodations? I know it did for us and we've never looked back.

 

[FigmentJedi]

I'm not sure that the success of the movies is related to the Disney brand. Look at John Carter and Lone Ranger. The little castle in the beginning didn't really help.

Neither did taking off the "Of Mars" part of the title.

 

[COProgressFan]

I agree with a what you are saying completely, but also remember that it gives Disney the ability to go on and market to people "Book now to take advantage of our newest deal! 35% off!". Who cares if the rooms only are ever sold at rack rate 1 night out of the year, the discount value is still there, even if only on paper. It gives them nice banner ads on websites, nice TV ads, etc to get people in.

May be so, but it certainly seems tacky when nearly every ad is touting a "sale" price. "Now Stay and Play for up to 30% off!" and "Last chance for a 35% off rooms this summer"! certainly doesn't sound like the branding or image of a supposed world-class resort destination. (Especially for savvy folks who know that the "last chance" will just be replaced by a new offer with the same discount a week later. And try mentioning that to the folks on the WDW Facebook page, or better yet the Disney Parks blog, and you'll be lynched by raging pixie dusters).

It diminishes the value of the brand that Iger is supposedly so concerned with, and seems quite desperate. If the product were any good, it would speak for itself. But we have seen how they have been going for a more downmarket approach for years now.

 

[ParentsOf4]

But sooner or later, don't you think the perceived value vs. the actual cost in hard-earned money will tip the balance to the point where people will flock to the Wonderful World of Offsite Accommodations? I know it did for us and we've never looked back.

People already have flocked offsite, which is why Disney's occupancy rate is the lowest since 2004 when they had a lot few DVC rooms artificially inflating the occupancy rate.

In the hotel industry, WDW's occupancy rate used to be stellar. Now it's just about average.

Anyone running a successful business who would settle for average industry performance should be slapped silly.

Disney needs to devise a strategy that not only increases occupancy but improves it to such an extent that they need to build more hotels.

We talk about Disney coasting, living off nostalgia and past glory at the theme parks. Well, they are doing the same at their hotels as well. Disney leadership needs to get hungry, not greedy.

 

[sshindel]

May be so, but it certainly seems tacky when nearly every ad is touting a "sale" price. "Now Stay and Play for up to 30% off!" and "Last chance for a 35% off rooms this summer"! certainly doesn't sound like the branding or image of a supposed world-class resort destination. (Especially for savvy folks who know that the "last chance" will just be replaced by a new offer with the same discount a week later. And try mentioning that to the folks on the WDW Facebook page, or better yet the Disney Parks blog, and you'll be lynched by raging pixie dusters).

It diminishes the value of the brand that Iger is supposedly so concerned with, and seems quite desperate. If the product were any good, it would speak for itself. But we have seen how they have been going for a more downmarket approach for years now.

The thing is, those ads are targeted at the non-core Disney fan(boi?). The people who are not always paying attention to it close enough to know that they are always on sale. Just that they are on sale right now, and I just happen to be thinking about vacation.
Those of us that know there is always another deal around the corner just take it as a fact of life, and learn how best to work the system to meet our needs.

Not saying you are not correct to a large extent, and it has lead to a great deal of dissatisfaction among us rabid fans, but the general public likely never notices it.

 

[COProgressFan]

That doesn't mean I think their $300-$500 rates are grounded in anything but insanity... but I also don't think their value/mods are 2-3x overpriced. Just overpriced by a margin many might justify. Personally I find the amenities of the room in the values more deplorable then the price. I think the minimum standard is too low for a Disney property.

I largely agree with this. The drastic price increases, along with a diminished quality at the resorts (I would argue at all levels, especially deluxe), has pushed us off site.

The level of service at Disney resorts can range from excellent to poor on any given trip, in any given resort, no matter what you paid. The CMs at the GF have the same training and pay as those at Pop. I don't know if the problem is poor training of CM's, or low morale, lack of empowerment, or poor management culture, but there are often times when you encounter a service problem, and no one can or will help, or the help is a poor CM throwing a bone to get you away from them.

Couple that with rooms and public areas of questionable cleanliness and maintenance, and they're just not worth the exorbitant price (for me) anymore. There is little excuse for filthy carpets and moldy bathrooms, even in Florida.

There was a time when Disney resorts were some of the best operated, unique resorts in the world. Much like their park operations, however, they just stopped caring.

 

[Smiddimizer]

I think that's very simplistic. You have to have a desire ... an interest ... just to go see a film. The No. 1 film at the box office last weekend was co-penned by a good friend's nephew (Michael Weber of 500 Days of Summer fame). But I am not a 19-year-old female and the whole idea of a love story involving young people with cancer just isn't what I go to the movies to escape into. I want to escape from things (today that would be school shootings, Iraq coming apart, sharia law etc) I want something that transports me and entertains me, much like theme parks.

I am not sure I would have ever seen The Avengers, let alone in a theater, except that it was an 86 degree day in Germany and they are not big on AC over there!

The Avengers is as escapist as they come, with some damn clever gags and dialogue that can almost forgive that it succumbs to the "NYC is firebombed" trope. But unfortunately, no matter how many Marvelettes beat that drum, you *must* think of it as a sequel. They just don't develop the characters enough for it to stand on its own legs.

THAT is what describes this sudden surge in popularity. The "Avengers Initiative" sucks you in because it leans on the other films. It's not just a franchise, it's a series as well. Captain America 2 might as well have been called Iron Man 8.

But the better question...in fact more what you were probably getting at...is why is it popular HERE? Because its disney. The only media conglomerate that breeds fanboyism in and of the name itself.


I also had a post about the UAE deal that either got deleted or lost in cyberspace when my internet went down...but basically, it's crazy and kind of telling that the new generation, in the birthplace of the world's greatest economy, considers an essentially monarchal system (that's putting it gently) the latest greatest model of affluence. Not that they think about it that way...they just see skyscrapers, water parks and figure 8 bikinis and think...dayum.

Abrams is likely gonna do a bang on job with SW, and I'm still gonna see it and enjoy it. But Tunisia seems to be enjoying a nice summer...why didn't they go back to where it all started? This is shady business disguised as movie magic.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

But I've heard good things about Knott's Berry Farm lately. And if Matt Ouimet is there, it's obvious why. The thing I don't think a lot of SoCal Disney fans realize is that Knott's Berry Farm 15 minutes away in Buena Park has the potential to be just as much as a competitor for DLR as Universal Studios Hollywood does once they open their version of Potterland in 2016. I don't know that the TDA suits realize that either.

The thing is that TDA is perfectly fine with turning business away at this point. They recognize they are already at the saturation point for what DLR can handle and keep guest satisfaction high. This is evidenced by them stopping sales on the select annual passes, participation in the CitiPass (tickets to Universal and SeaWorld), and by them limiting the number of consecutive days that can be purchased. These are all indicators of a message of "we've got all the business we can handle, take your money elsewhere".

Anaheim's issues are completely different from Orlando. Anaheim's problem isn't capacity from an attraction perspective, it's that they don't have enough of a geographical footprint to put more people into the tight confines of Disneyland park. Gridlock on the park's pathways lead to decline in guest satisfacton.

This is the exact opposite of what is going on in Orlando. Orlando's "blessing of size" is currently our curse. The parks can physically cram in more guests, the issue is what to do with them while they are there. There isn't enough attraction capacity. To offset that lack of capacity and provide a way to mitigate guest satisfaction, TDO came up with the nightmare that is MM+. In their eyes, virtual time management was a better (translate that into cheaper) solution than building more infrastructure (rides and attractions).

I'm sure there will come a point where Anaheim will be concerned about taking back days from their competitors; but, that will likely happen when expansion comes and that day will be a good one for all fans of DisneyParks. For now, all TDA needs to do is keep the locals happy - which means keeping the parks fun. If they have to upset some by taking away some of the cheaper annual passes to keep them out of the parks, so be it.

 

[jdmdisney99]

That's mainly a WDW thing.

I've noticed they have vendors working longer lines at Disneyland. Pirates or Splash Mountain on a busy day will have Coke vendors come through. I've bought ice cream bars while waiting in the Submarine Voyage extended queue in Tomorrowland. And in Cars Land they have vendors inside the queues on busy days.

Here's some kids in 1950's service station outfits selling drinks and popcorn in the interior queue for Luigi's Flying Tires in Cars Land.

Here's a young lady selling chocolate covered bananas in the long Standby queue for Radiator Springs Racers.

They were selling churros and pretzels when I was waiting in line for Minion Mayhem earlier this year.

 

[WildcatDen]

The park hasn't been the same since the Brady Bunch left...

I do not recall the King's Dominion episode.

 

[WildcatDen]

Just have to share this...from April at Kings Dominion. Can't wait to go back (and doing that soon!)

View attachment 56316

Nice. There is a rumor that King's Island may make a Bellagio type of refurb to their International Street fountain. That would be great to have a big show prior to their rather disappointing fireworks.

 

[Cesar R M]

THAT is what describes this sudden surge in popularity. The "Avengers Initiative" sucks you in because it leans on the other films. It's not just a franchise, it's a series as well. Captain America 2 might as well have been called Iron Man 8.

But the better question...in fact more what you were probably getting at...is why is it popular HERE? Because its disney. The only media conglomerate that breeds fanboyism in and of the name itself.

Hu, why iron man 8? it had nothing to do with Iron man..

As for popularity.. imho.. you're wrong.
Marvel was starting to raise the bar with their movies.. Iron man for example, was out in 2008..
Marvel buyout rumors started by the start of 2009.. and completed in 2009.

Marvel simply started the movement.. Disney just jumped at the opportunity before it exploded and gave it even more momentum.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Nice. There is a rumor that King's Island may make a Bellagio type of refurb to their International Street fountain. That would be great to have a big show prior to their rather disappointing fireworks.

A Las Vegas style show?!?! Mykinda show

 

[Goofyernmost]

Disney needs a 'fat 5k' or 'walkers half-marathon'

Anyone that knows me (none of my internet friends) know that what I am about to say is not a put down. I'll explain after.

The Disney 5k is already a 'fat 5k'.

I feel that is absolutely great. I have said before and I will say again, I admire more, people that are not physically svelte and yet will go out and try to do something that in the past they have never been able to do. In the case of people that are very overweight and have lost weight either through surgery, diet or just plain making a massive effort, it is vitally important that these people have a place to do something like this. It is not a contest and never should be. For many it is nothing more then an opportunity for people to test themselves without fear of being laughed at or discounted as unable.

It has been brought up many times on these boards that it isn't really a serious event. Of course, it isn't it's Disney for goodness sake. Want to run seriously? There are some "real" events with famous names. The Boston and New York Marathon comes to mind.

Since it's Disney's job to make people feel good, I can't think of a better way that benefits so many people and allows them to lose the self loathing that so many lived with for years. This is one thing that can honestly and proudly be defined as a place where everyone is a winner.

 

[whylightbulb]

Hello all. I know I've been quiet but I've been extremely busy with Diagon. Looking forward to the next project to fight the battle again.

 

[Nubs70]

Disney needs to devise a strategy that not only increases occupancy but improves it to such an extent that they need to build more hotels.

We talk about Disney coasting, living off nostalgia and past glory at the theme parks. Well, they are doing the same at their hotels as well. Disney leadership needs to get hungry, not greedy.

This will come off as greedy an really tourqe people off....but..

1. Go modified island strategy. Stay to play.
2. Increase single day non resort stay park ticket to $367/day. You in effect pay for a room.
3. Since non resort stay volume will plummet, existing acreage of day visitor parking can be repourposed for new hotel sites.
4. Eliminate non DVC owner AP programs.

 

[PhotoDave219]

[I heard a date being floated around as the 30th for possible opening and to expect soft openings next week…