The Spirited Back Nine ...

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
This almost makes me feel like sony is hiding something much worse than catty emails bashing actors.

Clearly north Korea is not a real threat. The information that these hackers have, however, has to be crippling.
Yeah, but what makes anyone think that North Korea will stop? They have what is reported to be about 100 TERABYTES of data.

Sure, they got the movie out of theaters, but North Korea still has that info. They could continue to cripple Sony for a long time if they choose to do so.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
From Rogen himself: '"There was a moment where [the studio execs] were like: They’ve threatened war over the movie. You kill him [Kim Jong-un]. Would you consider not killing him?' And we were like, 'Nope.'"

Like it or not they trolled, they knew the reaction it could possibly get and they still went with it. And acknowledging that has nothing to do with "sympathizing" with North Korea, get a grip.
No, they didn't troll. They had the balls to make a movie like this and it being their movie, they didn't want to sacrifice the little integrity it had by not killing him. THAT WAS THE POINT.

Ever heard of a film called "The Great Dictator" in which Charlie Chaplin starred in back in 1941? That movie satirized Adolf Hitler. Was Chaplin "Trolling" Hitler?
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
Sony should have never greenlighted this terrible premise for a movie anyway. Would a major studio back a comedy about the assassination of Obama? From all the accounts the movie was a lemon, and not worth the hassle.
Your comparison is not even worth looking at.

Obama is president of the US, and while everyone may not agree with him, no one wants to see him killed. Kim Jong Un is a bad man. What has he done to earn the respect to make this movie NOT be ok to make? As I said in a prior post, Chaplin made a similar movie about Hitler.

This is America and the people who make these movies have creative freedom. This crossed no line that hasn't been crossed before and I actually commend Sony for allowing it to be made, however, I can't think of a worse thing they could have done than to pull the movie altogether. They let them win.
 

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
Your comparison is not even worth looking at.

Obama is president of the US, and while everyone may not agree with him, no one wants to see him killed. Kim Jong Un is a bad man. What has he done to earn the respect to make this movie NOT be ok to make? As I said in a prior post, Chaplin made a similar movie about Hitler.

This is America and the people who make these movies have creative freedom. This crossed no line that hasn't been crossed before and I actually commend Sony for allowing it to be made, however, I can't think of a worse thing they could have done than to pull the movie altogether. They let them win.

I believe other countries feel the same way about the US president, as we do about certain evil foreign leaders. Weapons of mass destruction anyone?
 

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
Free speech is a thing you know...

Entertainment is also a thing...

Not being able to to distinguish between fantasy and reality is not a good sign.

Team America keeps getting brought up and that was even more silly. Remember they made a movie "Lincoln"? I don't remember the end.

As far as a lemon? Christmas releases aren't released on Christmas because they're terrible. They are usually the best crop of movies untul summer.

The movie is currently at 47 percent at rotten tomatoes. Any movie with Rogen and Franco is mind numbing for the over 25 set.
 

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
I also believe in freedom of speech, and not giving in to terrorism. I also believe people should pick their battles. This movie had a terrible premise that didn't seem to be delivered well. It wasn't worth the headache.
 

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
I also believe in freedom of speech, and not giving in to terrorism. I also believe people should pick their battles. This movie had a terrible premise that didn't seem to be delivered well. It wasn't worth the headache.

LOL. So because it was a terrible movie it's ok to give in? What if it was a REALLY good movie?

Also, your first and second sentences appear to be in slight conflict... So you believe in freedom of speech, but only when it's convenient?
 

fillerup

Well-Known Member
There's a centuries old and well understood concept in human behavior. If you want a certain behavior to be repeated, then you reward it. Parents and pet owners understand this intuitively.

The theater chains and Sony have just rewarded cyber terrorism.

If I'm a hacker or terrorist in Krazy Korea or anywhere else, I'm saying to my buddies this morning - "Well, that was easier than we expected - who's next?"

I'm offering solid 4 to 1 odds to anyone who's naive enough to think this is a one and done.
 

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
LOL. So because it was a terrible movie it's ok to give in? What if it was a REALLY good movie?

Also, your first and second sentences appear to be in slight conflict... So you believe in freedom of speech, but only when it's convenient?

When its in reason. Killing the president of another country in a stupid comedy film is not a reason to start a war. The biggest problem I see with the Sony leaks is Melissa Mcarthy starring in an all female Ghostbuster movie.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
When its in reason. Killing the president of another country in a stupid comedy film is not a reason to start a war. The biggest problem I see with the Sony leaks is Melissa Mcarthy starring in an all female Ghostbuster movie.
He is most certainly not a President. He is a petty Dictator who has done a lot of bad things.

There's a big difference. I'm not sure why you are defending this man.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Exactly. North Korea should not have threatened to harm US citizens over a stupid comedy. I'm glad we can at least agree on that.

But that's the beauty part.
"North Korea" didn't do anything; the "Guardians of Peace" did.
Doing all of this through an officially unaffiliated hacker group gives North Korea complete plausible deniability. Well, deniability, at least.
Because Interpol isn't allowed to act on North Korean soil and the entire world is too afraid to ruffle Pyongyang's feathers, North Korea's disavowed hacker attack groups get to act worldwide with complete impunity. Sony's capitulation proves their invincibility, at least in the current geopolitical climate, and you can bet we're going to see many similar hacks, threats, and attacks in the near future.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I also believe in freedom of speech, and not giving in to terrorism. I also believe people should pick their battles. This movie had a terrible premise that didn't seem to be delivered well. It wasn't worth the headache.
You do not understand how free speech works. Free speech only works in a society where we acknowledge that a piece of media, be it a book, film, painting, song, is perhaps offensive to us, but that in silencing an individual/group's right to make said expression, we silence our own right. What we do not find offensive may be offensive to someone else. So where does it stop? You can't not be principled about this.

Perhaps you should read the decision from Hustler Magazine v. Falwell. Rogen and co-writer/director Goldberg and Columbia Pictures have every right to make and release this film. In choosing to restrict the ability for the public to consume the film, in any format, they have set a precedent the Supreme Court sought to avoid. It's not a question of the quality of the film, which you believe perhaps justifies your viewpoint, but that a film that offended a public figure was removed from release after threats were acted upon; I'd argue that Falwell suing Huslter is acting on a threat.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/485/46/
Generally speaking, the law does not regard the intent to inflict emotional distress as one which should receive much solicitude, and it is quite understandable that most, if not all, jurisdictions have chosen to make it civilly culpable where the conduct in question is sufficiently "outrageous." But in the world of debate about public affairs, many things done with motives that are less than admirable are protected by the First Amendment. In Garrison v. Louisiana,379 U. S. 64 (1964), we held that, even when a speaker or writer is motivated by hatred or ill-will, his expression was protected by the First Amendment:

"Debate on public issues will not be uninhibited if the speaker must run the risk that it will be proved in court that he spoke out of hatred; even if he did speak out of hatred, utterances honestly believed contribute to the free interchange of ideas and the ascertainment of truth."

Id. at 379 U. S. 73. Thus, while such a bad motive may be deemed controlling for purposes of tort liability in other areas of the law, we think the First Amendment prohibits such a result in the area of public debate about public figures.

Were we to hold otherwise, there can be little doubt that political cartoonists and satirists would be subjected to damages awards without any showing that their work falsely defamed its subject. Webster's defines a caricature as "the deliberately distorted picturing or imitating of a person, literary style, etc. by exaggerating features or mannerisms for satirical effect." Webster's New Unabridged Twentieth
Century Dictionary of the English Language 275 (2d ed.1979). The appeal of the political cartoon or caricature is often based on exploitation of unfortunate physical traits or politically embarrassing events -- an exploitation often calculated to injure the feelings of the subject of the portrayal. The art of the cartoonist is often not reasoned or evenhanded, but slashing and one-sided. One cartoonist expressed the nature of the art in these words:

"The political cartoon is a weapon of attack, of scorn and ridicule and satire; it is least effective when it tries to pat some politician on the back. It is usually as welcome as a bee sting, and is always controversial in some quarters."

Long, The Political Cartoon: Journalism's Strongest Weapon, The Quill 56, 57 (Nov.1962). Several famous examples of this type of intentionally injurious speech were drawn by Thomas Nast, probably the greatest American cartoonist to date, who was associated for many years during the post-Civil War era with Harper's Weekly. In the pages of that publication Nast conducted a graphic vendetta against William M. "Boss" Tweed and his corrupt associates in New York City's "Tweed Ring." It has been described by one historian of the subject as "a sustained attack which in its passion and effectiveness stands alone in the history of American graphic art." M. Keller, The Art and Politics of Thomas Nast 177 (1968). Another writer explains that the success of the Nast cartoon was achieved "because of the emotional impact of its presentation. It continuously goes beyond the bounds of good taste and conventional manners." C. Press, The Political Cartoon 251 (1981).

Despite their sometimes caustic nature, from the early cartoon portraying George Washington as an down to the present day, graphic depictions and satirical cartoons have played a prominent role in public and political debate. Nast's castigation of the Tweed Ring, Walt McDougall's characterization of Presidential candidate James G. Blaine's banquet with the millionaires at Delmonico's as "The Royal Feast of Belshazzar," and numerous other efforts have undoubtedly had an effect on the course and outcome of contemporaneous debate. Lincoln's tall, gangling posture, Teddy Roosevelt's glasses and teeth, and Franklin D. Roosevelt's jutting jaw and cigarette holder have been memorialized by political cartoons with an effect that could not have been obtained by the photographer or the portrait artist. From the viewpoint of history, it is clear that our political discourse would have been considerably poorer without them.
 
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