The Spirited Back Nine ...

PrincessNelly_NJ

Well-Known Member
I think this is a bit of a fallacy, having worked with a Service Provider in the past, I know that Netflix refused to offer the same sort of caching hardware to Service Providers that Google was giving away for YouTube. Google handled this issue well with the SPs, Netflix was arrogant and triggered a war and then tried to play nice later.

There is middle ground on this issue, SPs absolutely need to be able to prioritize data packets to make voice and video services work and should be enabled to charge both sides of the traffic for the privilege of using their network. However, Service Providers need to be limited on their ability to deny or prioritize similar traffic types at their whim or competitive pressures (Hulu shouldn't get cheaper rates because Comcast is a part owner, etc).

The problem is that the political climate is too charged to find an adequate solution nationally. This needs to look more like the current Telco environment than either sides proposals.
I can somewhat agree with that. But it just goes to show that like gasoline, the internet has become vital to everyday life. And anytime people become dependent on things... bring on the abuse and price gouging.

This will only benefit ISPs. They will collect more money from content providers and consumers.
And surprisingly... it seems very anti-business, imo.
So many companies stand to suffer if ISPs charge too much. Look at how many people dropped Netflix when they raised prices a few dollars... Think of Ebay & Amazon increasing the percentage they take from sellers to cover the cost to ISP to maintain good speeds. On top of consumers being charged by ISPs based on what types of content access online, people won't want to eat the cost.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Second - the utility analogies are poor.. because if you pay attention to your bill, you aren't paying for bit consumption from your ISP.. but you are paying for watt Consumption from your electric company. And just because Telsa comes along and says 'you really want this new super high load service' (aka netflix) the electric company doesn't have to come and upgrade the wires to your house just because you bought a telsa. You want more conduit.. you have to pay for it.

And the big threat of 'if we don't have this... they COULD DO THIS..' - could do? They've already been operating all this time without any regulation preventing those behaviors... in a period where competition for providers was WORSE than it is now. There is a reason providers haven't done these things.. and it's not some fictitious regulation that existing before.

Then what are people paying for?
Why offer "100mbps unlimited" connections if their own network cannot manage to handle these 100mbps lines?
Doesn't make sense other than to lie to customers.
customers are paying which thing to access. Why netflix as to pay more ?

Second.. You cant definitively compare Energy utilities vs Networks.. both have finite maximums but the loads are not instant. Energy need rampups and slowdowns to handle the currents based on sustained LOADS.
Networks have higher variations but do not need rampups or slowdowns when theres high consumption or not (their max capacity can be obtained almost instantly and unlike energy.. you an throttle when the capacity is exceeded)


Under your logic: They(most ISPS) are selling "telsa capable" utility connections even if their infrastructure, generators and transformers cannot handle the load (even less if all users used this capacity at same time).

What about the rumours of most ISPS back in 2001 getting huge $$$ from the government in the guise of "improve your infrastructure to accelerate the commerce and improve economy" and they needed just cashing it instead of expanding ?
What about the constant monopoly concentration, lobbiyism..etc.. (all to block the creation of other networks where the major isps are single major monopolies and keep prices up?)

These videos and the like are popular because they are one way propaganda that can't be contested or challenged with counter points.
You're kidding right? anyone can make a response video, theres comments and sharing.
that "videos cant be contested" is BS.

If they can make Senator Cruz say BS to everyone in favour of his lobbyists.. anyone can contest a video posted online.


Make a cool video... make it catchy.. and promote! Throw a couple FUD bits in there.. and you'll be the darling of the social media circles.

You just described 99% of what political ads show.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
simple explainers are better than ignorance. At least this is bringing some sense of awareness to the issue.

It sounds to me like you are completely in favor of Comcast screwing us…
Im getting the same feeling as well.
I wonder if he has Comcast Stock lol.
Reminds me of Jimmy Thix during the incessant defending on Disney.. a few months ago.

he used so many excuses when in reality the only real excuse he had, was owning stock and improving his percentage value. :hilarious:
 
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Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I can somewhat agree with that. But it just goes to show that like gasoline, the internet has become vital to everyday life. And anytime people become dependent on things... bring on the abuse and price gouging.

This will only benefit ISPs. They will collect more money from content providers and consumers.
And surprisingly... it seems very anti-business, imo.
So many companies stand to suffer if ISPs charge too much. Look at how many people dropped Netflix when they raised prices a few dollars... Think of Ebay & Amazon increasing the percentage they take from sellers to cover the cost to ISP to maintain good speeds. On top of consumers being charged by ISPs based on what types of content access online, people won't want to eat the cost.
The internet is more than that, its an excellent way to get information that is not controlled or filled with agenda from the main media operators. cnn and major tv networks all carry their own agenda based on their own interests. In the internet you can get multiple sources and form a consensus. ( hence why many nations now want to censor internet. Specially in heavily controlled nations like China)
control of the information = control of the population.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
Moving to a model which many non-US carriers use where one entity operates the physical plant while services are sold on a equal access basis would lead to a better and faster internet because US internet ranks somewhere about 35'th in speed and capacity

I don't understand how America is supposed to be (or at least thinks of itself as) the ultimate market-forces driven country, where capitalism and competition thrives and customers benefit... and yet, broadband, cellphones and TV access are more expensive than almost any other Western country, speeds are super slow, and big companies monopolise everything with consumers helpless against it.

Anyone coming to the USA needs to be prepared to step back in time to when internet speeds were slow and prices high, so something is clearly failing in the current model.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
Now everything is a decade old and they want to keep showing Wall St their stellar financial performance which largely was achieved through cuts in CAPEX. So now we see caps and 'fast lanes' and BRAVO-SIERRA arguments about how they will no longer be able to afford to build networks.

Now what other company does this remind me of...
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
No one should control what content I wish to view but me. Consumers should always be in charge of what they see not ISP.
The fight against Net Neutrality is all about $$$$, nothing more.

In most other countries it's not an issue, because if your ISP denies you something, you move to another. The trouble in the USA is so few companies dominate, and in some areas there's only one choice of ISP, so they can blackmail users into signing up or missing out.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I think this is a bit of a fallacy, having worked with a Service Provider in the past, I know that Netflix refused to offer the same sort of caching hardware to Service Providers that Google was giving away for YouTube. Google handled this issue well with the SPs, Netflix was arrogant and triggered a war and then tried to play nice later.

There is middle ground on this issue, SPs absolutely need to be able to prioritize data packets to make voice and video services work and should be enabled to charge both sides of the traffic for the privilege of using their network. However, Service Providers need to be limited on their ability to deny or prioritize similar traffic types at their whim or competitive pressures (Hulu shouldn't get cheaper rates because Comcast is a part owner, etc).

The problem is that the political climate is too charged to find an adequate solution nationally. This needs to look more like the current Telco environment than either sides proposals.

Well said and yes it does - I've been advocating for common carrier for a LONG time.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I don't understand how America is supposed to be (or at least thinks of itself as) the ultimate market-forces driven country, where capitalism and competition thrives and customers benefit... and yet, broadband, cellphones and TV access are more expensive than almost any other Western country, speeds are super slow, and big companies monopolise everything with consumers helpless against it.

Anyone coming to the USA needs to be prepared to step back in time to when internet speeds were slow and prices high, so something is clearly failing in the current model.

No it's the domain of regulatory capitalism where buying legislators to erect barriers to entry and privatize gains and socialize losses to contributors is better than actually building products and services.
 

lobelia

Well-Known Member
I remember when winter storm "Nemo was around and there were a lot of clown fish jokes… Personally? I think that naming a winter storm trivializes it. People are Not going to take it seriously.

Remember when the storm Hercules approached us near the time the movie the Legend of Hercules came out? Conspiracy! I looked it up then too. The weather channel started this naming thing. Who owns the weather channel?
 

Matt7187

Well-Known Member
Remember when the storm Hercules approached us near the time the movie the Legend of Hercules came out? Conspiracy! I looked it up then too. The weather channel started this naming thing. Who owns the weather channel?
Believe it or not, NBCUniversal is one of the parent companies
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Many companies don't out right block but throttle instead.

ISP have been throttling websites like BitTorrent & Netflix (just to name a few.) Netflix began paying both Verizon & Comcast to improve speeds on their sites. And guess what?
They still are throttling Netflix while collecting money from that. Abusing power for financial gain.

A program on TV isn't the same as a website.
If I want to watch Nickelodeon then I know that I can turn on Nickelodeon without my cable signal dropping or cutting in and out while I get the Disney Channel nice and clear.
You know you can turn on Nickelodeon because that is what customers expect, not because of regulations. The same expectations can work with the Internet.
 

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