The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[flynnibus]

. WDW has always done a consistent job maintaining and updating the resorts.

I don't agree. They have lagged industry trends. Decor, in room amenities, technology, perks, etc. where is the innovation? Where is the leading the industry in their resorts?

You pat them in the back for "getting there eventually"

Disney has been doing stuff... But they've done it late, too slow, and honestly not enough to maintain their past lead in their industry. They succeed based on the brand and locking others out to keep their location and park/transport perks exclusive.

Magical express is the last innovative thing they've done IMO. Nextgen has lots of potential for innovation.. But I still would say its in the teething phase and so much is about integration with other Disney elements and less about the resorts

There are some baby steps with things like how they are experimenting with checkin, etc but most have not been disruptive forces

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Are there pics out there of the new rooms?

Got a link or could your share? Id appreciate it.

These were from another Disney site, but I'm linking straight to the Photobucket accounts (here and here). According to one of the people who stayed in them (as of one week ago), Buildings 41, 42, and 43 are complete. 44 is nearly done, and 45 and 46 are being worked on. That means Jamaica will be the first village where this update is complete.

I've never stayed at CBR before, but I like these rooms a lot more than the previous Nemo design. Queen beds (and the new pull-out) are also a plus.

 

[BrerJon]

Seriously though, this further DVC expansion is all you need to see to understand that current WDW management is only concerned with short-term profits. No one at TDO appears to care what WDW will be like 5 years from now, let alone 10, 25, or 50.

Although nor do those (in my mind insane) people who buy DVC expecting that they will still want to visit after 20 more years of neglect, price increases, and cutting.

Yes, the people Disney is looking to sell DVC to may love WDW today, but what in the world makes them think they'll still love it in a decade? The decline in quality, care and price hikes mean standards will eventually slip to a point where DVC is just overpriced accomodation for an Orlando holiday, instead of a WDW focused trip, and I'd hate to own DVC points when that happens. The faith in TDO that anyone buying DVC must have just beggars belief.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

These were from another Disney site, but I'm linking straight to the Photobucket accounts (here and here). According to one of the people who stayed in them (as of one week ago), Buildings 41, 42, and 43 are complete. 44 is nearly done, and 45 and 46 are being worked on. That means Jamaica will be the first village where this update is complete.

I've never stayed at CBR before, but I like these rooms a lot more than the previous Nemo design. Queen beds (and the new pull-out) are also a plus.

Thank you! We stayed there in April of 2012... and we weren't terribly impressed. I guess there was a reason it was a moderate resort priced in line with the values...

Now, back to your regularly scheduled, spirited programming.

 

[flynnibus]

Ok....

Reporting or PnL does not lock dollars into unit. It's just accounting.

Contrast that with legal definitions on "colors of money" which dictate what appropriations can be spent on, or re appropriated without tax implications.

Those don't apply to lock profits into subsidiaries purely because they are subsidiaries

 

[doctornick]

I think you're right, but sooner or later those scraps will dry up too unless there are major changes, and not just rumors of things that might happen in the next decade.

I think a lot of people bring their families to WDW because they have sweet memories of the place when they were kids. Their experiences as kids there were truly magical,and there was always something new and exciting to look forward to and return to. But what about today's kids? When they grow up and have families of their own will they feel that same nostalgic draw, will they really see any value to investing in DVC?

I don't know about long term, but I do think that most families that go to WDW still have a grand old time. The issues are more with "staleness" and repeatability than it not being a good destination. Suffice to say that I frequently see folks post WDW pictures on Facebook with lots of positive commentary.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I am a very disgruntled DVC Member. I bought in 3 years ago with my fiancé and while we really love aspects of it, I am incredibly ed off at what the parks have become. I would gladly just stay at the resort and go to UNI... next years trip will have a large portion at UNI because I am dying to go see Diagon Alley. Disney needs to wake up sooner rather than later because while they have some of my money, they won't be getting much more in the future if this keeps up.

I'm not asking this to be flippant... It's a sincere question...

The problems in the parks were highly evident long before 3 years ago when you bought in. What are you seeing now that you didn't 3 years ago? Or is it a situation where at the time you were more new to the parks and just couldn't notice the issues? Was it an impulse buy or something (like we hear happens to SOOOOO many people)?

I'm genuinely curious.

EDIT TO ADD: Probably 12 years ago I went through the whole DVC spiel. This was when we first started vacationing at the parks a few times a year, when we started having kids. We had maybe 10 visits under our belts at the time (so it's not like we were complete rookies). We got so far as to have the paperwork sent to us and everything... But I just couldn't bring myself to make a multi-decade commitment. Thank the flying spaghetti monster I didn't sign on that dotted line. Since then, we've seen what's continued to happen at the property, and just gotten smarter in general. For example, if we had known about resale at the time, there's no way we would have even gotten as close as we did at the time.

But my point is... We were fairly familiar with the parks and so forth, and even WE almost pulled the trigger on what would have been looked at for decades as an albatross and an impulse buy. If WE almost did that... I can't think of how many thousands of others do the same thing and actually put pen to paper.

 

[jt04]

Now why do people here who hate DVCs care? If Disney wants to do this it has no effect on the parks but it does give Disney a source of money that could be used to upgrade and build new attractions and yes even a 5th gate. The cash flow from DVC sales is huge. Especially if they are just converting rooms. The cost should be under $50,000 a room. If the points averaged 100 a week at $160, a point that would take 3 weeks of point to cover the costs and start having a profit. If they can sell 40 more weeks that a $2,000,000 profit per room and a conversion of 300 rooms at WL, BWK, BC, and GF, would result in over 2.4 billion dollars. Now don't tell me it costs Disney anywhere near $600 a week to take care of these rooms a week. That is what the maintenance fees are at $6.00 a point. As everyone also knows timeshare have a much higher occupancy rate and my numbers still leave 9 weeks unsold. They can't sell them all because they need to update at time but you can see huge profits which a good portion of should go to the parks. Then in 2042 it starts all over again. This is long term huge profits and money for the parks which is what we all want. It may not be the business model you like but it is a good business model and DVC care about the parks because the parks drive the sales.[/QUOTE]

Exacty. Long term capital investment that will fuel new content for the resort (see Pandora and Disney Springs) and that 5th gate. Thanks for bringing a bit of reasoned sobriety to this thread.

 

[stevehousse]

I hope Martinique is completed by Nov when I go!

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I don't agree. They have lagged industry trends. Decor, in room amenities, technology, perks, etc. where is the innovation? Where is the leading the industry in their resorts?

You pat them in the back for "getting there eventually"

Disney has been doing stuff... But they've done it late, too slow, and honestly not enough to maintain their past lead in their industry. They succeed based on the brand and locking others out to keep their location and park/transport perks exclusive.

Magical express is the last innovative thing they've done IMO. Nextgen has lots of potential for innovation.. But I still would say its in the teething phase and so much is about integration with other Disney elements and less about the resorts

There are some baby steps with things like how they are experimenting with checkin, etc but most have not been disruptive forces

Maybe I'm easily impressed, but WDW has tens of thousands of rooms to maintain at this point, and I recognize that they're doing it. I don't always see the changes as improvements (in fact, GF's and BWI's regular rooms are so hideous that I can't imagine ever staying in them again), but this doesn't strike me as an area where WDW deserves straight criticism. There's only so much innovating you can do with the room designs, and they're playing around with things (such as TVs embedded in the VGF bathrooms and the rising number of pull-out beds to increase room occupancy at several resorts - families have wanted that for years). As for the Nextgen updates, those are coming - they're already experimenting with a simpler check-in process, and a WDW resort stay is already seamless in many ways (such as DME taking your bags from the airport to your room, and bell services moving your bags from one resort to another if you have a split-stay). Besides that, WDW does regularly update the resorts and their public areas, so I'm not going to whine that they aren't doing everything to my preference. There are bigger fish to fry.

 

[flynnibus]

Sure, I totally get the long-term vs short-term argument.
I guess I'd be amazed if they didn't have someone run the numbers to model that out over time. It doesn't mean that they didn't do it of course, but it'd be one of the first questions I'd ask if I were making this decision AND all I cared about is the bottom line (like we suppose folks there do).
If all I cared about is $, I'd have someone prove to me that the bird in hand is worth the two in the bush over the long term.

You left out the dimension of "under my watch". People care less about legacy... And more about stats you can quote "in my last position, in 3yrs I reduce OpEx 8% and improved occupancy rates by 15%"

Where that group will be 5+ years after they leave is less important to them and won't even be part of the discussion for their next role.

It's part if our "disposable economy". No one cares if your legacy folded later...

 

[flynnibus]

Maybe I'm easily impressed, but WDW has tens of thousands of rooms to maintain at this point, and I recognize that they're doing it.

Stand back and ask yourself this... How many of these refurbs are replacing things that wear out... Replacing things that have limited lifespans... Vs reimaging things to improve and innovate?

This isn't a company getting by on razor thin margins...

 

[sshindel]

Stand back and ask yourself this... How many of these refurbs are replacing things that wear out... Replacing things that have limited lifespans... Vs reimaging things to improve and innovate?

This isn't a company getting by on razor thin margins...

I'd argue this IF it meant that they were saving a little money in the resorts to be able to invest in the parks, but well...

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

These were from another Disney site, but I'm linking straight to the Photobucket accounts (here and here). According to one of the people who stayed in them (as of one week ago), Buildings 41, 42, and 43 are complete. 44 is nearly done, and 45 and 46 are being worked on. That means Jamaica will be the first village where this update is complete.

I've never stayed at CBR before, but I like these rooms a lot more than the previous Nemo design. Queen beds (and the new pull-out) are also a plus.

Ok... that shut me up. Definitely much better. I might actually stay there next year after seeing these!

 

[Kman101]

I'm with you, @Kman101, but for slightly different reasons. It's not about giving them credit for minuscule accomplishments, but rather placing the criticism where it's deserved. WDW has always done a consistent job maintaining and updating the resorts. Even in the "dark ages" of recent management, they've still continued refurbing rooms, working on each resort's pool, and maintaining public areas. They even undertook a large project about 4-5 years ago to add marble flooring to Grand Floridian's lobby - not needed, but a very nice touch in retrospect.

So I don't see a reason to be mad at WDW for doing what they should be doing anyway, because they are doing it (in this one case). We aren't always happy about the changes at certain resorts (just like DL fans weren't happy to see the waterfalls at the Disneyland Hotel go), but WDW hasn't been slacking here. Instead, the criticism belongs on the lack of park maintenance, as well as this growing strategy that pushes DVC wherever it could possibly fit, without regard for the surroundings. These are the actual problems right now.

You said it so much better than I did.

 

[darkwingeeyore]

These were from another Disney site, but I'm linking straight to the Photobucket accounts (here and here). According to one of the people who stayed in them (as of one week ago), Buildings 41, 42, and 43 are complete. 44 is nearly done, and 45 and 46 are being worked on. That means Jamaica will be the first village where this update is complete.

I've never stayed at CBR before, but I like these rooms a lot more than the previous Nemo design. Queen beds (and the new pull-out) are also a plus.

We stayed at CBR on our last trip in December 2012. Lots of problems with the bathroom fan which at first made my husband very suspicious of everyone. But beyond that the room and especially the bathroom just looked like it needed some TLC. I like the new decor.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Ok... that shut me up. Definitely much better. I might actually stay there next year after seeing these!

Thank you for posting and wow they did a much better job on the rooms. Maybe my wife will be willing to go back there now.

 

[Ignohippo]

Yes, Disney is going back to the WL.

No, they won't be building any (OK, not entirely true) new villas. What they will be doing is converting a large number of rooms in the main building from hotel to DVC. In addition, much infrastructure work is planned from a total redo of Artist Point, to expanding the pool deck to adding a new concierge lounge (actually multiples, one exclusive for DVC).

As both myself and @ParentsOf4 have articulated, WDW's current business model is fundamentally flawed and broken. And those geniuses who run Disney have come to the same conclusion. They just don't get why. They think DVC is the Golden Goose and they only care about short-term gains. It's not that the WL couldn't fill 98% of its rooms most of the year IF they lowered prices. It's that WDW's model doesn't allow for $150 a night rooms beyond CM discounts.

Take a look at this summer. Do you have any clue how pathetic WDW load levels are? The entire main building at the Grand Flo is empty as rooms are being redone to look like Vegas rooms from 2010. The Poly has multiple buildings that are empty. The BW has many rooms out of service for hard good rehabs. And guess what?

They still are lucky to have resorts that are 65-75% full (not total occupancy, available occupancy which is a huge difference).

This is such a brilliant move on Disney's part.

With eroding numbers due to stagnant parks, inflated prices, and incredible additions by your competitors, certainly the perfect way to combat that is to reduce the number of hotel rooms.

I'm sure that will do amazing things to increase park attendance, increase guest spending and get people from staying off-property.

FACE PALM. This is the perfect thing to do to drive customers away and send them willingly to their competitors. Disney is handing their guests over to the competition on a silver platter.

 

[stlphil]

The smart guy balances the lost opportunity of those rooms over time to the upfront gains of dvc... Trying to include operating cost changes (like you said)... And even tries to include cannibalization into the opportunity compute.

Or the short timer says "these rooms are empty, let's flip them and take the money now... The upfront costs are easily beat by the sale dollars"

There is a cost to market, fill, and maintain those rooms. If you are struggling to do that successfully now... Doesn't it sound amazing to just remove your problem and get paid to do so?

This is why it comes back to short term vs long term. The long term takes both time and effort. Dvc is get paid now AND take less effort over time.

Does the farmer work the fields or does he sell the property to the developer for a one time profit ?

Look around... You see it in so many parts of TWDC... Desiring ownership of the operation is less desirable than just collecting money while someone else does the heavy lifting.

Desiring to do it in house to control the quality and execution has taken a backseat to financial justifications

Great concise description of the situation.

I'd argue that part of the reason (beyond financial which I agree is the main driver) is that this is a company that has clearly lost their confidence in their own abilities, and ultimately has lost their nerve to even try for quality and innovation.

 

[ASilmser]

Not to get off on a tangent but we just did a long weekend at the DVC at Hilton Head. It's pretty nice. Old school Disney in a lot of ways. A high level of service and a lot of stuff to do. While I was there I saw 3 different guys painting things that needed touch up. This wasn't a renovation or anything, it was a maintenance guy doing touch up work since he saw a scrape. I feel like that's how WDW always was in the past.

Vero beach is awesome too. . . relaxed and groovy. Great cast members. But they have to be. . . they are the only gig in town (not really, but the pace and activity are a near 180 switch from your typical theme park vacation in Orlando). On our next trip to O-town, we are seriously considering doing a "land and sea" vacation, but instead of DCL, we will go to Vero.