The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[Kman101]

Man. TDO really has no clue, do they?

Thanks for all the info Spirit!

And I'm guessing they aren't very concerned with the falling attendance at AK and DHS? I agree that it's a shame EPCOT doesn't see such a drop because, unlike what some think, it DOES need attention, as much as DHS does. Take away the food and booze fests and then they'll see. I think it also helps Epcot that it's on a monorail berm and 'close enough' to the MK and some resorts.

 

[WDW1974]

DVC should not be tacked on to existing resorts. Full stop. I wonder depending who would be in charge of Disney Parks 10 years from now .... actually more conservatively 25 years from now how easy would it be for them to remove all DVC and the value resorts and revalue every room rate on property...?

They can't. And that's the problem.

From 1991-2000, DVC amounted to four resorts, two of which were not even at WDW, one not even in the state of Florida. Since then ... well, take a look. I know DVCers hate this, but the increase in their ranks has come right along with the Walmarting of WDW and the parks getting stale and neglected. I wish the DVC rank and file started a campaign to bring change to WDW. I'd certainly help them. But I get the feeling that even those unhappy, the ones who stay at WDW but visit UNI instead, just are apathetic about things.

 

[Longhairbear]

I'm an owner at Wilderness, and stunned at this news. I don't know what to think. Seeing the new decor in the villas at WL, it makes sense but theming suffers in my opinion. Tee Pees....???? Really?
I know I will be happy about the price I paid for my DVC back in 2003 once I see how much new points will cost when they start selling them. Perhaps my maintenance fee might go down a bit...or go up.
So Jim Lewis wanted DVC to go into CS?

 

[Tigger1988]

@WDW1974
When will construction begin on this WL expansion? Staying there in Nov and it's bad enough the pool will be closed.

 

[Funmeister]

This mistake will not be easily fixable in the event the DVC bubble bursts post hotel conversions.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Man. TDO really has no clue, do they?

Thanks for all the info Spirit!

And I'm guessing they aren't very concerned with the falling attendance at AK and DHS? I agree that it's a shame EPCOT doesn't see such a drop because, unlike what some think, it DOES need attention, as much as DHS does. Take away the food and booze fests and then they'll see. I think it also helps Epcot that it's on a monorail berm and 'close enough' to the MK and some resorts.

That's the thing - food and booze can't be separated from modern Epcot. In fact, these boozy 'festivals' keep Epcot buzzing for nearly a third of the year. And let's not forget the waterside additions to World Showcase Lagoon, although not all of them are successful (Spice Road Table sits empty for much of the day). Or the $50 dessert party with mini cronuts and cheap champagne. In all seriousness, my favorite part of Epcot right now is the ice cream place in France. What does that say about the park?

 

[Kman101]

That's the thing - food and booze can't be separated from modern Epcot. In fact, these boozy 'festivals' keep Epcot buzzing for nearly a third of the year. And let's not forget the waterside additions to World Showcase Lagoon, although not all of them are successful (Spice Road Table sits empty for much of the day). Or the $50 dessert party with mini cronuts and cheap champagne. In all seriousness, my favorite part of Epcot right now is the ice cream place in France. What does that say about the park?

Very true. I love Epcot, but take away the festivals and there's literally .... not much. And I'm sure they know that. All those do is pad the pockets and attendance numbers, which seems good enough for them. And for me personally, most of the rides are a one and done. Sure I'll re-ride them but, honestly, meh ...

 

[arko]

I have so many lines that I'd like to offer, but I am not going to derail this thread, let alone only a few pages in!

I am guessing they are going for this look, something tells me the crystal clear water won't be there

 

[WDW1974]

As a VWL owner, this is going to take me a while to process. Right now, I think WL has almost the perfect balance between DVC and rack rate rooms. With the way they priced points for the GF, I have to wonder how much they're planning on charging. I would think that they've got to be close to the breaking point with regards to both the timeshares and the regular rooms....I suppose they are already there with the regular rooms on the deluxes. Don't people who work for Disney stay at other hotels and look at prices? I'm going to a conference at the end of the month and staying at a real nice looking joint in Aix-en-Provence (near Marseille) and it is running $130 or so a night (already did a rough conversion from Euros). Heck, the partner hotels near DTD aren't that expensive. How could they not consider lowering prices? What happens if you drive up and just ask for a room for a night at a deluxe? Would they go down if I turned around and started to walk away after being quoted $325 or whatever for a parking lot view?

Oh, George. You bring up so much I'd like to discuss, but can't sit here for the night.

First, Disney execs absolutely know what real world prices are and they especially know what the O-Town market commands. A little hint you don't need: it ain't $600 a night for what amounts to a 3-star room in the real world.

As to driving up? Hahhahahahahah.

You think this is still 1984? You think Jack Wagner is on WDW Radio (the real thing, not the Amity Corless deal) telling folks that rooms are available for the night as they drove down the two lanes of World Drive?

You can't walk up to a WDW resort that has 40% of its rooms empty and get a room. They can't/won't book you. They do everything from their call center. Try it sometime it is so laughable. They'll dial the Sand Lake Rd call center that Georgie K staged his resurrection from, get put on hold while listenting to Small World (just like you'd do from home) and if something shows as available at the resort they'll book you in (no discount either unless you're say an APer and an AP rate is in the computer and you ask).

I often wonder if a security guard is even capable of dealing with someone who drives up to the gate of a resort and asks about staying the night.

True Spirited Tale: in 1997 I spent six nights at Coronado Springs on an AP rate with a sibling. We were going to drive home that night but after a long day at EPCOT, neither one of us felt like doing the 3 1/2 trek down the Turnpike (it's not a fun drive!) We went back to CSR and explained the situation ... we had to get two managers (one who wasn't on-site) who somehow reopened our folio and simply added a night (albeit in a different room) at the same $84 rate we had paid for the other nights. It literally took 70 minutes when the resort was a quarter empty and all rooms were in service.

 

[wm49rs]

They can't. And that's the problem.

From 1991-2000, DVC amounted to four resorts, two of which were not even at WDW, one not even in the state of Florida. Since then ... well, take a look. I know DVCers hate this, but the increase in their ranks has come right along with the Walmarting of WDW and the parks getting stale and neglected. I wish the DVC rank and file started a campaign to bring change to WDW. I'd certainly help them. But I get the feeling that even those unhappy, the ones who stay at WDW but visit UNI instead, just are apathetic about things.

They've rolled that particular boulder up the hill one too many times, only to have it roll out from them....

 

[WDW1974]

Due to its Convention Center, the smallish Yacht Club (630 rooms) is one of the few WDW Deluxe Resorts that consistently runs at a high occupancy rate. Realistically, there's no good place to squeeze in a new DVC building while converting existing hotel rooms to DVC there doesn't make a lot of financial sense.

I was expecting The Spirit to announce the Boardwalk Inn (whose occupancy has been atrocious at times) was going to be converted to all DVC.

I haven't heard 'all' about any resort. But part of me thinks it is just a matter of time. How in the heart of summer WDW can have thousands of rooms at GF, Poly and BW out of service tells the tale of them going over what the market will bear. They don't seem to get that it will happen at the mods and values too, it already has to some extent. Anyone who is paying triple digits for a value motel at WDW has no clue what the market is or is just addicted to Pixie Dust.

 

[cw1982]

I am guessing they are going for this look, something tells me the crystal clear water won't be there

I don't know... when I think of teepees, I think more of stuff like this:

I have no idea how that would look over water, but my thinking is probably pretty silly, so surely I have it wrong.

 

[Nemo14]

I don't know... when I think of teepees, I think more of stuff like this:

I have no idea how that would look over water, but my thinking is probably pretty silly, so surely I have it wrong.

Don't call me surely...

 

[rudyjr13]

There's one key question here. Who in their right mind would shell out $16-$20k for DVC right now?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Not really true as my pal @PhotoDave219 will gladly chime in on. EPCOT is doing great business (I think it needs an asterisk but still) because it just mints money in food, beverage and merchandise sales. They don't care how stale it is precisely because of that. But this sorta goes off topic a bit ... but it does factor in. MK and EPCOT are fine no matter what the UNI fanbois say, which is sad because they both deserve major new additions. The other two gates are in free fall (no, I don't care about TEA numbers whatsoever as I know they are guesses) ...

Yup. As far as Disney is concerned, Epcot & their festivals are a gold mine. Think $1M a day in grosses on a slow F&W day.

Disney does not seem to be concerned with attendance as it is with revenue.

 

[culturenthrills]

That's the thing - food and booze can't be separated from modern Epcot. In fact, these boozy 'festivals' keep Epcot buzzing for nearly a third of the year. And let's not forget the waterside additions to World Showcase Lagoon, although not all of them are successful (Spice Road Table sits empty for much of the day). Or the $50 dessert party with mini cronuts and cheap champagne. In all seriousness, my favorite part of Epcot right now is the ice cream place in France. What does that say about the park?

The bakery in France is my favorite place for a quick meal. The ham and cheese croissant is one of the best deals in all of WDW.

 

[arko]

I don't know... when I think of teepees, I think more of stuff like this:

I have no idea how that would look over water, but my thinking is probably pretty silly, so surely I have it wrong.

This is the Four Seasons in Bora Bora, these villas are 1300 a night.

 

[Mike S]

I don't know... when I think of teepees, I think more of stuff like this:

I have no idea how that would look over water, but my thinking is probably pretty silly, so surely I have it wrong.

Well, they already TP'd Cinderella Castle once. Just makes sense todays TDO would eventually TP another area of WDW with how little they care.

 

[rudyjr13]

You can't walk up to a WDW resort that has 40% of its rooms empty and get a room. They can't/won't book you. They do everything from their call center. Try it sometime it is so laughable. They'll dial the Sand Lake Rd call center that Georgie K staged his resurrection from, get put on hold while listenting to Small World (just like you'd do from home) and if something shows as available at the resort they'll book you in (no discount either unless you're say an APer and an AP rate is in the computer and you ask).

This happened to me in Feb. Was supposed to check out on a Thursday but Philly got hit with a blizzard so we extended our stay. 2 toddlers at an airport during a canceled flight was not something we were willing to do. Was at BLT, they said there were no rooms which was utter BS. Wound up at the Grand spending way too much for 2 nights.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There are a couple of factors to consider when deciding whether to convert hotel rooms to DVC. The first is occupancy rate. Hotels with lower occupancies are better candidates for conversion. The second is size. At least 300 rooms need to be available to justify the conversion.

Both the Yacht & Beach Clubs have pretty good occupancies and should be safe for now.

Despite being small, the Boardwalk Inn has had poor occupancy. With only about 370 rooms, its small size makes it ideal for a full conversion to a DVC-only resort.

Having just stayed at VWL last week, I was surprised that the hotel's occupancy was at 79% for summer season even as its DVC was at 98%.

The large Animal Kingdom Lodge, Contemporary, and Polynesian already have lost hotel rooms to DVC. Eventually, they could lose more.

If AKV sales weren't so bad over the last 5 years, I suspect we'd see more DVC conversions there sooner rather than later

The Poly is having about 360 of its 850 rooms converted. Supposedly, even more rooms were going to be converted but then Disney got cold feet.

Although no hotel rooms have yet been converted at the large (860 rooms) Grand Floridian, Disney was hoping for strong VGF sales to justify converting rooms there. So far, VGF sales have not met expectations. Really, the Grand Floridian is another Deluxe Resort that's just aching for DVC conversions.