The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[TeriofTerror]

Thanks for the info, Spirit!
All thoughts regarding the wisdom (or lack thereof) of this concept aside, I'm surprised by the choice of resort. Since WL already has DVC, I'm surprised they didn't start with YC, the one deluxe with no DVC. They must really be enthralled with that whole tepee concept.

 

[ChrisFL]

Thanks for the info, Spirit!
All thoughts regarding the wisdom (or lack thereof) of this concept aside, I'm surprised by the choice of resort. Since WL already has DVC, I'm surprised they didn't start with YC, the one deluxe with no DVC. They must really be enthralled with that whole tepee concept.

Or they know their only cash cow is MK right now...not the other 3 parks

 

[wdwmagic]

No. Disney isn't going to announce this for quite some time. I could have waited another six months and still been ahead of the curve.

I have to admit being conflicted by the whole thing. I don't own DVC. I don't like timeshare. But I do have family that owns it. And my SO 'Angie M' owns it and we've had some truly MAGICal vacations with it both at WDW and DLR.

But it does Walmart a resort. Top resorts are not timeshare (and, yes, I realize that even Four Seasons has some fractional ownership properties). Being able to buy bologna and Tombstone frozen pizza and frozen burritos at my deluxe resort gift shop says something other than 'classy'.

And the Lodges have been among my favorite hotels in the USA, not simply WDW. DVC absolutely dumbs a resort down. I know that sounds elitist and maybe it is, but it is also true.

There is no doubt DVC moving into a resort has a number of impacts. In most cases though, I think the guests staying there as non DVC members win with upgraded amenities. I usually feel it is the villas side that is a bit lacking - often with no dedicated checkin/front desk, no nearby pool etc.

Other than potential price increases and reduction in availability, I don't see this as a bad thing for WL regulars.

 

[danlb_2000]

Well, on a very gloomy, sad and depressing Thursday evening, let's talk some about WDW's future roadmap.

Let's look at what is coming and why? And what the plans say about WDW's current and future business model.

Also, as a favor to Steve and Marcia, let's try and stick to the few topics here. I'll still pop into Seventh Heaven for anything goes type discussion of WDW, UNI and general media and entertainment talk. So, if ya'll are ready, these are some things you may find interesting (if you don't, you don't need to express it here, just move on to one of the countless threads here that does interest you):

WDW's biggest DVC expansion has started and it is not going to take place (for now) where you think;
WDW is effectively done with deluxe resorts. You won't see a new one ever built unless a significant change happens in management;
WDW can't fill the resorts that it has, so be ready to watch rooms disappear;
WDW has thrown in the towel on Flamingo Crossing. It isn't happening. Dead;
Oh, and one little thing about Disney and UNI and how there are no secrets in the business ... we'll talk about that too.

OK, let's go ...

So what do you think will happen with the Flamingo Crossing land? If the hotels get built the will basically isolate the rest of the land from the highway. Think they will sell it?

 

[WDW1974]

Wow! I knew numbers were down, but I thought not by that much

It differs by resort and even by day. ... But while some resorts were packed. Dixie Landings was over July 4th, for instance, but others were not.

There have been days this summer when the GF has been under 50% (not talking about DVC there, again, hotel).

I put the 65-75% range out because I feel 'safe' in doing so for a generality.

WDW can't fill its deluxe resorts. That is why DVC isn't going to the places I mentioned earlier. They have masterplanned a resort for the RC site. I saw this years ago. The plans were leaked online in the last 12-18 months. They want to build it. But do you know how much cheaper it is for Disney to simply take 350 (I don't know that is the number, but likely in the range) rooms out of the WL and simply convert them ... oh, and still raise rates at the WL annually?

The EPCOT idea? They went from the World Showcase Westcot-like idea to simply the parking lot. And when the plans started to get pricey (think new/reworked entrance and a parking structure at Epcot), it sorta went back-burner.

 

[wdwmagic]

So what do you think will happen with the Flamingo Crossing land? If the hotels get built the will basically isolate the rest of the land from the highway. Think they will sell it?

I mentioned this in the other thread, but there are big things happening on that side of WDW with Horizon West. If Disney ditch it, I think other developers will jump in.

 

[Nemo14]

Other than potential price increases and reduction in availability, I don't see this as a bad thing for WL regulars.

But aren't those 2 rather important to WL regulars?

 

[DougK]

Other than potential price increases and reduction in availability, I don't see this as a bad thing for WL regulars.

Yes but price increases and reduction in availability is bad enough isn't it?

 

[wdwmagic]

But aren't those 2 rather important to WL regulars?

I usually assume that the diehard fans are prepared to make reservations a long time out and accept price hikes. I can see the casual guest having a harder time with it.

 

[wdwmagic]

Yes but price increases and reduction in availability is bad enough isn't it?

It is to me. I can't pay deluxe prices as they stand now, never mind what a reduction in inventory would do to them. But there are always those that will pay.

 

[WDW1974]

Well that part was unexpected. Any timeframe on this?

Next you are going to be telling us that the wrecking ball will be heading to Contemporary south in the near future.

As soon as possible. You know the one thing they have little trouble in building quickly is timeshares. I can say pretty confidently that folks will be staying in the new units at WL before all of Pandora is open, let's put it that way.

And, no, no BLT South as I alluded to.

Two reasons on that:

1.) The land there can't currently support it without some major infrastructure work (think erosion, think water bridge);
2.) The Contemporary is already at that tug of war point between lucrative conventioneers and DVCers. Thus far, it's a balance (not that there aren't issues both sides tend to have with the other groups). You add the BLT South and that resort is done as a MAJOR convention hotel.

Indeed, I have heard that every deluxe hotel is in play and that they are trying to determine if it would be possible to add DVC units at moderates. What would that take? A lower buy in per point? Would that harm the business as a whole? But imagine if at CBR, they bulldozed all of Trinidad South and replaced it with DVC. Imagine it, because they have.

BTW, the idea of DVC at a moderate has come up before internally. Someone high up and no longer with the company (think Aulani and you'll figure it out) pushed for DVC at Coronado Springs and was told to basically shut his trap by the Convention folks.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

All this talk makes me wonder if another building at GF might eventually be converted to DVC. After all, they were willing to eliminate almost half of Poly's regular inventory, and GF seems to have even bigger issues with occupancy.

Edit: Scratch that part about Contemporary.

 

[SirLink]

No. Disney isn't going to announce this for quite some time. I could have waited another six months and still been ahead of the curve.

I have to admit being conflicted by the whole thing. I don't own DVC. I don't like timeshare. But I do have family that owns it. And my SO 'Angie M' owns it and we've had some truly MAGICal vacations with it both at WDW and DLR.

But it does Walmart a resort. Top resorts are not timeshare (and, yes, I realize that even Four Seasons has some fractional ownership properties). Being able to buy bologna and Tombstone frozen pizza and frozen burritos at my deluxe resort gift shop says something other than 'classy'.

And the Lodges have been among my favorite hotels in the USA, not simply WDW. DVC absolutely dumbs a resort down. I know that sounds elitist and maybe it is, but it is also true.

DVC should not be tacked on to existing resorts. Full stop. I wonder depending who would be in charge of Disney Parks 10 years from now .... actually more conservatively 25 years from now how easy would it be for them to remove all DVC and the value resorts and revalue every room rate on property...?

 

[WDW1974]

Artist Point is my favorite restaurant in WDW, so I shouldn't be surprised that they're planning on changing it.

And I've always wondered why they didn't continue with concierge DVC rooms after AKV, but this wasn't what I had in mind...

Like I said, I am very torn on the whole thing. The WL is my 'home' at WDW, but due to ridiculous prices I haven't stayed there in seven years. But before that I stayed over 150 nights -- that's just there. AP is also a favorite dining spot that has outpriced me. I went last fall when CMs were getting 40% off. I think if you take 30-40% off the prices there, you actually get to what the experience should command in a real world, no DDP environment.

 

[DougK]

Like I said, I am very torn on the whole thing. The WL is my 'home' at WDW, but due to ridiculous prices I haven't stayed there in seven years. But before that I stayed over 150 nights -- that's just there. AP is also a favorite dining spot that has outpriced me. I went last fall when CMs were getting 40% off. I think if you take 30-40% off the prices there, you actually get to what the experience should command in a real world, no DDP environment.

That is exactly right. Disney does not have to lower their prices to the "cheap" level they just need to be more reasonable and people will flock to the hotels and signature restaurants. 30-40% lower would be a good start.

 

[WDW1974]

because Native Americans often pitched their teepees out on a lake?

I have so many lines that I'd like to offer, but I am not going to derail this thread, let alone only a few pages in!

 

[DougK]

I have so many lines that I'd like to offer, but I am not going to derail this thread, let alone only a few pages in!

Good, Mom is watching you know!

 

[Nemo14]

I have so many lines that I'd like to offer, but I am not going to derail this thread, let alone only a few pages in!

I know!

 

[George]

As a VWL owner, this is going to take me a while to process. Right now, I think WL has almost the perfect balance between DVC and rack rate rooms. With the way they priced points for the GF, I have to wonder how much they're planning on charging. I would think that they've got to be close to the breaking point with regards to both the timeshares and the regular rooms....I suppose they are already there with the regular rooms on the deluxes. Don't people who work for Disney stay at other hotels and look at prices? I'm going to a conference at the end of the month and staying at a real nice looking joint in Aix-en-Provence (near Marseille) and it is running $130 or so a night (already did a rough conversion from Euros). Heck, the partner hotels near DTD aren't that expensive. How could they not consider lowering prices? What happens if you drive up and just ask for a room for a night at a deluxe? Would they go down if I turned around and started to walk away after being quoted $325 or whatever for a parking lot view?

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the info, Spirit!
All thoughts regarding the wisdom (or lack thereof) of this concept aside, I'm surprised by the choice of resort. Since WL already has DVC, I'm surprised they didn't start with YC, the one deluxe with no DVC. They must really be enthralled with that whole tepee concept.

There are definitely eyes on the YC for more DVC.

I think (again, this part is OPINION) the convention crowd may play a factor here. But if you don't see it at YC, expect a chunk of BC to be converted sooner rather than later.

WDW is truly becoming The Timeshare Kingdom of the World. And, let's not BS ourselves or anyone else, that most definitely was not what the resort was about for its first 25-30 years and certainly not what Walt ever had in mind.