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The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)


Well-Known Member
Original Poster
We still stay at Wilderness Lodge pretty regularly, but it's with our DVC points. Paying out of pocket, I think about $180-200/night is my max for it, and that's exceedingly rare without a CM discount.

I highly doubt the teepees will happen, if only because someone up the food chain has to have enough sense to ultimately nix the idea. It's one case where things will be better for politically correct-ness.

I agree on the first point. I admit to being shocked at the second, but I saw the proof with my own eyes. I don't find it as politically incorrect as just a poor design choice. I wonder how large they will be. I believe they are planned to be the same size at the Poly units (which are not grand villas like some folks have said).

I think they could change the design on them, but I don't believe it will happen.

BTW, I owe you an email and I am very behind on getting in touch with folks (too much time here, I reckon), but will be in touch.

[QUOTE="WDWFigment, post: 6221779, member: 40563]
What I wouldn't mind seeing happen is cabins akin to those at Fort Wilderness. I love those cabins, and I think they will fit well with the National Park lodge style...since many N'tl Park lodges also have adjacent cabins. Plenty of land around there without putting them over the water, which literally makes no sense in the context of the theme.

I also love Artist Point, but probably wouldn't go back for a full meal (well, maybe the salmon). It's a soup and dessert type place--not because the entrees are bad, but because of price and because their Smoky Portobello Soup is excellent, as are several desserts. Plus, I just love that setting. The art in there is beautiful.

I think more DVC at WL has the potential of being a good thing for average guests, but it also has the potential of being a very bad thing. I would not say that DVC additions have across-the-board been bad for regular guests at other resorts, though. I guess we shall see how it plays out.[/QUOTE]

I will steadfastly state that every resort that has had DVC added has suffered a notable and noticeable drop in quality and service after the addition. Timeshare isn't compatible with a deluxe resort stay. AT least, not the way Disney has been doing it. ... I'd say they've been most successful at DAK Lodge.

[QUOTE="WDWFigment, post: 6221779, member: 40563]
ETA: I look forward to a thread with only a few topics to follow. It seems like there are a few people in other threads who feel the need to compulsively post even when they have nothing to say, which makes following along...tedious, to say the least.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to try myself. I think I'm using the Seventh Heaven as the anything goes deal (it already is) and this will be for what was placed in my first few posts. If it doesn't reach 500 pages, that is perfectly fine. I just ask that people only post if they really have something worth adding and something that fits with the conversation. It makes things easier on everyone. I can't keep up with the last thread and I know I'm likely missing worthy reading when I just skip 10 pages.


Premium Member
This is the Four Seasons in Bora Bora, these villas are 1300 a night.

Tikiman has said that the ones at the poly will be around or above 1000 per night and will include those small plunge pools.


Well-Known Member
There's one key question here. Who in their right mind would shell out $16-$20k for DVC right now?
We did last month because the villas at Floridian look beautiful and we missed staying there. Staying on-site has always been an important part of the experience to us, and now we won't be impacted by the skyrocketing rates of regular deluxe rooms.

That said, I can envision many future trips where we skip the parks entirely or head to Universal.


Well-Known Member
This is the Four Seasons in Bora Bora, these villas are 1300 a night.


Those are beautiful, as are the ones in the other picture you shared. Those images just don't agree with my automatic mental picture that is associated with "teepees." I'm not saying you're wrong, but to me those look more like cabins with grassy roofs than teepees. Apparently Google images agrees with me, because all I could find when I did a quick search was images closer to the one I shared lol. In fact, the hotel you are referencing calls these "bungalows."


Well-Known Member
I haven't heard 'all' about any resort. But part of me thinks it is just a matter of time. How in the heart of summer WDW can have thousands of rooms at GF, Poly and BW out of service tells the tale of them going over what the market will bear. They don't seem to get that it will happen at the mods and values too, it already has to some extent. Anyone who is paying triple digits for a value motel at WDW has no clue what the market is or is just addicted to Pixie Dust.
I'm glad you confirmed what others said including myself and was told we were full of it on the other Spirited thread. Occupancy at most deluxes have been way below normal for the summer. But what do I know, I've only been going to the WDW for over 30 years, might work in the news business and have some friends who are CM's. Not as high on the food chain as people you know. But everything is fine at WDW, let's keep up those #olafsummervacation hashtags going, right, right :banghead:


Active Member
This is a Bean Counter dream- Disney can oversell those weeks on a DVC unit, and at the same time cut back on housekeeping since DVC isn't cleaned daily. Goldmine. All be it current short term short sighted.

I wish the highest levels of management would get their heads out of their bonus checks.

Totally don't agree with their strategy, sigh, but I do see why it's being done.


Well-Known Member
Original Poster
My view is that overall this is a bad thing if, as alluded to in the OP, this is part of an overall business strategy which I would call, "Doing anything we can to avoid lowering prices so they more readily align with the market".

That is 100% exactly what they are doing here.

Even though they discount like hell (even now, even after all the tales from Iger and Rasulo and Staggs), the idea that they could simply say the highest price room at the Poly would be $500 (like Christmas week) will never enter their minds. They are sold on an unsustainable business model that has finally cracked in the last decade. It doesn't work. So, they'll have $1000 rooms at the Poly, they'll just be a much smaller number than they have today.

Too bad, Soup and Salad Sandra doesn't read here because this would be the perfect O-Sentinel story that will never get written!

The Mom

Premium Member
Oh, George. You bring up so much I'd like to discuss, but can't sit here for the night.

First, Disney execs absolutely know what real world prices are and they especially know what the O-Town market commands. A little hint you don't need: it ain't $600 a night for what amounts to a 3-star room in the real world.

As to driving up? Hahhahahahahah.

You think this is still 1984? You think Jack Wagner is on WDW Radio (the real thing, not the Amity Corless deal) telling folks that rooms are available for the night as they drove down the two lanes of World Drive?

You can't walk up to a WDW resort that has 40% of its rooms empty and get a room. They can't/won't book you. They do everything from their call center. Try it sometime it is so laughable. They'll dial the Sand Lake Rd call center that Georgie K staged his resurrection from, get put on hold while listenting to Small World (just like you'd do from home) and if something shows as available at the resort they'll book you in (no discount either unless you're say an APer and an AP rate is in the computer and you ask).

I often wonder if a security guard is even capable of dealing with someone who drives up to the gate of a resort and asks about staying the night.

True Spirited Tale: in 1997 I spent six nights at Coronado Springs on an AP rate with a sibling. We were going to drive home that night but after a long day at EPCOT, neither one of us felt like doing the 3 1/2 trek down the Turnpike (it's not a fun drive!) We went back to CSR and explained the situation ... we had to get two managers (one who wasn't on-site) who somehow reopened our folio and simply added a night (albeit in a different room) at the same $84 rate we had paid for the other nights. It literally took 70 minutes when the resort was a quarter empty and all rooms were in service.

I've mentioned that once upon a time (pre- 1990) I would call a deluxe resort (usually Poly or Contemporary) in the morning and ask them what was the best rate they could give me if I checked in that afternoon? If I could get a good rate, I'd pick up my daughter after preschool, and off we'd go. (I had APs)


Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Interesting. So basically Disney is canibalizing itself to turn non profitable space into that which they think makes them money. This must mean they are not forecasting growth in attendance to an extent. Which makes sense given the economy continues to barely move forward. People's discretionary income continues to dwindle as costs of living increases.

It's not the economy, though (and I agree that it is a factor for many people). It's Disney's pricing and business model. Plain and simple. Cut through the opinion, the hyperbole and the BS (that part is never from me) and that is what you get.

UNI is in the midst of building what will likely top out at about 12,000-14,000 rooms. Does anyone see the timeshare wing at Portofino Bay? Did I miss it on my two stays there in the last year?


Think for yourselfer
I have to wonder, is DVC anywhere near it's saturation point?

Presumably, Disney is using some type of formula for projecting future DVC demand. I just wonder if it needs to be tweaked.

How many points is Disney currently sitting on? As in, unowned, for sale through Disney?

I own DVC, and this really rubs me the wrong way. I've never had a problem booking VWL at 7 months. And whenever I do book DVC, I feel like VWL always has availability.

Like @George said, the simple solution here is to simply get your prices in line with the rest of planet earth. Heck, they just need to get close. And occupancy would shoot way up. I suspect, they could even ditch Free Dining, and the various other "discounts" if they did that.

Instead, Disney is solving it's occupancy problem the same way a chainsaw solves the problem of a loose yule post.

Also, teepees? Over water? At a national park style lodge? What?!?!?


Well-Known Member
Original Poster
There were permits filed in May with the South Florida Water Management district for the hotels. The plans say they will be Spring Hill Suites (normal hotel), and TownPlace Suites (Extended Stay). Orange county tax map also shows the ownership of the land as "Jl Orlando Hotel 2 LLC "

Those are them. I know that nothing had been done on the site as of last month ... but I was planning (seriously!) of heading there last week and having a 'tasteful pictorial' done of me posed in the middle of the road (I think you could sleep in it and not worry about being hit!)

Let's see if they get built.


Well-Known Member
We've seen anecdotal evidence here that some DVC owners spend less than the average guest that books a package because they don't visit the parks as much, cook in their room instead of eating at expensive Disney restaurants, use their rooms as a base to visit other theme parks... :cautious: Anyway, besides this being a short-term money grab, are there any incentives planned to get DVC owners to spend money more money? If sales at VGF are slow, why do they think MORE DVC will sell well especially if no incentives are added?

I just don't get the logic...not even gonna talk about the teepees.


Well-Known Member
Speaking of DVC, I have to say these timeshare wings are spreading like a cancer across property. Not only that, but the design choices are becoming increasingly inconsiderate as time goes on. Just look at what's changed since BWV (where the deluxe portion and DVC wing were built simultaneously).

-VWL and BCV are both fine - they added unique architectural elements and complement the existing resorts.
-Saratoga ("Let's use pre-existing infrastructure to build a standalone resort with practically no personality and a generic condo vibe. It'll surely sell out!")
-AKV Kidani Village has an entire portion that looks like an unthemed military bunker when you approach it by bus/car.
-BLT (need I say more)
-VGF's exterior looks flat and boxy, it eliminated most of GF's beach, and it intrudes on the Wedding Pavilion. Besides the lovely interior, it takes away from the original resort.
-Poly's new bungalows obstruct the views from existing longhouses and are being built over a murky, mosquito-infested lagoon.

This track record makes me fear where the next new or add-on DVC will be constructed. That said, the Wilderness Lodge project also sounds messed up to me...


Well-Known Member
I mentioned this in the other thread, but there are big things happening on that side of WDW with Horizon West. If Disney ditch it, I think other developers will jump in.

And I still think those plans are already made, have been for some time, and the parties involved have been working on it for a while now.


Well-Known Member
Since I stay offsite the only reason I don't want them to burn them all to the ground is what it would do to the prices offsite. I know that everything has a connection to everything else and in some form or the other, over time it will have a serious affect on my plans. However, since I am older then dirt, it probably won't happen until I am no longer able to go anyway.


Well-Known Member
Original Poster
When will construction begin on this WL expansion? Staying there in Nov and it's bad enough the pool will be closed.

Don't know. But you are safe in November, beyond the pool issue.

BTW, there apparently was some major behind the scenes angst because when the Poly pool closes next week guests will be offered one-day tickets and transport to BB (and you can bet if they ask for a second day, that those will be comped). Well, some folks at the CRO started telling WL guests the same thing only that isn't what will happen. WL guests will be allowed to pool hop to either the Contemporary main pool (no BLT) or FW's main pool.

It's OK, though, I'm sure Disney is taking $75 a night off your room for closing the main pool, right? ;)


Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see the financial statement said for the quarter. I am not sure I agree with you that DVC'S are bad and short sited. Remember DVC are right to use and not permanent ownership. In 2042 lots revert back to Disney ownership to renovate and resale. In the meantime the profits from the sales can be invested into the parks resulting in more DVC sales and park attendance. As for mid priced resorts Disney can continue to sell those rooms which do okay and then leave the values for off site. As an incentive DVC can negotiate with the parks for extra fast passes thus keeping their prices high. This does not have to be a negative. Some may see it that way but it can be looked at as a positive addition. Time will tell who is right but I like the DVC model.

Edit to add. I almost forgot. No matter what anyone says Disney makes a nice profit from the management fee and all the services they provide to the DVCs.

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