The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[flynnibus]

If you think Uni deluxes at moderate++ then what do you think of Disney deluxes? Value++ hotels?

IMO - the Disney Deluxes are close to the UNI hotels but with more theme park/Disney details. So they have more than the UNI stuff as an attraction, but as a hotel they are pretty similar and the various pros/cons probably wash each other out. So generally I'd put say the WL over Royal Pacific... but not because it's a greater hotel, but more of an attraction in itself. Neither are top shelf hotel experiences worthy of $300+/night.

 

[flynnibus]

So.. WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO? all to wall street?

Inefficiencies. Pay three people to do the work of one. Do work three times instead of once. Paralysis through Analysis. Bloat in your white collar ranks. Duplication. etc

Wall Street only gets the dividends... everything else is money based on speculation (buy/sell)

 

[Cesar R M]

That Iger stat regarding margins is just sickening. What a quick cheap way to prop that stat up for the great CEO, room to DVC conversion. Has to be... Wait for it... Revolutionary CEO forward thinking.

and he got CEO of the year.
I suppose being a CEO is just grab money as quick as you want while leave a division to rot and then run away!

 

[asianway]

Inefficiencies. Pay three people to do the work of one. Do work three times instead of once. Paralysis through Analysis. Bloat in your white collar ranks. Duplication. etc

Wall Street only gets the dividends... everything else is money based on speculation (buy/sell)

I'd say combination of both but you make a compelling case!

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

IMO - the Disney Deluxes are close to the UNI hotels but with more theme park/Disney details. So they have more than the UNI stuff as an attraction, but as a hotel they are pretty similar and the various pros/cons probably wash each other out. So generally I'd put say the WL over Royal Pacific... but not because it's a greater hotel, but more of an attraction in itself. Neither are top shelf hotel experiences worthy of $300+/night.

ok... I guess I'll give you that
I agree hotels like AKL are rare in the US at least. The theming definitely is so well done and unique that it stands out among the rest.

 

[WildcatDen]

I suppose being a CEO is just grab money as quick as you want while leave a division to rot and then run away!

No, that is COQ of the year. . .

 

[marni1971]

For the same reasons we debunk Disney's 'deluxe' resorts as high-end, the same applies to UNI. I've never considered their three hotels as deluxes.. but rather a moderate++.

The Royal Pacific was far ahead of a CBR or PO last year.

 

[marni1971]

Wait, so Seascape's "statistics" were wrong?

No way. Really?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

"Deluxe" does not necessarily mean "luxury", for the same reason there's a difference between 4 and 5-star category hotels. I think the 3 main UNI hotels qualify as 4-star deluxe (like Shertaon/Westin or Hilton), in the same way Disney hotels like Contemporary and Beach Club are. None are on par with Ritz, Trump or Four Seasons, but they're not Better Westerns either.

"Moderate" implies modest or average, which a hotel like Royal Pacific is not especially post-renovation) and certainly not Portifino Bay. If you have to add multiple +s after the term, than it's probably the next step up.

 

[flynnibus]

The Royal Pacific was far ahead of a CBR or PO last year.

Sure.. but my measuring stick fits things beyond Disney too

 

[flynnibus]

"Moderate" implies modest or average, which a hotel like Royal Pacific is not (especially post-renovation). If you have to add multiple +s after the term, than it's probably the next step up.

Yes, but like the star definitions you cited... there is more than 3 labels. So when someone asks "how does it compare to the Disney system.." of which there are only three distinctions.. yes, I needed to come up with a way to define another level because as the label infers, it fell between Disney's two labels.

 

[crispy]

In 2006 Disney was at 86% capacity. That is the highest they have had this century. They were 79% in 2013 and will be over 80% this year. I think the number will be the 82% or just a fraction higher. In hotel terms that is amazing. The problem here is people talk about empty rooms on a given night without understanding the industry. If a company is averaging over 85% is does not have enough rooms or is charging too little. In fact the highest hotel occupancy was in a given year this century was about 63% nation wide in 2006. However as pointed out earlier Orlando is not anywhere and so occupancy should be higher but over 80% even in Orlando is excellent especially since as everyone else has pointed out Disney is more expensive than neighboring hotels. I bet Universal would love to have Disney's hotel occupancy rate. I just called and they have rooms at each of their hotels this weekend. There is nothing bring with that and it should be expected but it just shows rooms are always available except for 1 or 2 nights a year. That is the hotel business.

Also just for the record if you check my prior posts you will always see when I used rooms for comparison I always used 80% occupancy rates for my numbers and 2 per room. I knew that was low because at Disney and Universal they should average more than 2 people per room but in most years both Disney and Universal should average 80% occupancy. Our. The other hand DVC occupancy average 95%. Therefore provides more attendance for the parks.

While I appreciate your response, it didn't really answer the questions I was asking. I was trying to suss out which resorts have issues and which ones are performing well. The numbers you are providing are talking about the WDW resort as a whole not on an individual resort level. Do the DVC units and values have high occupancy rates? Are some of the moderates in trouble? Are all the deluxe hotels experiencing lower occupancy rates or are some holding their own despite the room prices?

I was asking because it looks like CBR is shifting rooms to sleep 5 as a model of POR which would indicate that whatever POR is doing is working to some extent. It would make sense to look at the resorts that are experiencing high occupancy rates and figure out why they are performing well. Obviously, DVC works to some extent because they are prepaid, but what else is working? It would make sense to examine those business models and implement that at other resorts instead of solely jumping on the DVC bandwagon.

 

[khale1970]

Disney has priced their own rooms out of the market, which may very well have been their plan along. There are people who will pay whatever rate to stay on property, and they'll keep coming, the rooms that are being converted are the ones that used to be filled by those who knew the true value of the dollar they were spending and aren't willing to make that leap anymore.

If people are willing to pay to stay on property and they'll keep coming, they haven't priced their rooms out of the market. They may have priced you or I out of their market, but the market is fine as long as enough people are willing and able to pay their rates.

 

[Nemo14]

It would make sense to examine those business models and implement that at other resorts instead of solely jumping on the DVC bandwagon.

You lost them at "It would make sense"....

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

While I appreciate your response, it didn't really answer the questions I was asking. I was trying to suss which resorts have issues and which ones are working. The numbers you are providing are talking about the WDW resort as a whole not on an individual resort level. Do the DVC units and values have high occupancy rates? Are some of the moderates in trouble? Are all the deluxe hotels experiencing lower occupancy rates or are some holding their own despite the room prices?

I was asking because it looks like CBR is shifting rooms to sleep 5 as a model of POR which would indicate that whatever POR is doing is working to some extent. It would make sense to look at the resorts that are experiencing high occupancy rates and figure out why they are working. Obviously, DVC works to some extent because they are prepaid, but what else is working? It would make sense to examine those business models and implement that at other resorts instead of solely jumping on the DVC bandwagon.

I have often wondered if POR was so popular because it was the only moderate for a family of 5 outside of the cabins.

 

[Nemo14]

I have often wondered if POR was so popular because it was the only moderate for a family of 5 outside of the cabins.

I think that is a large part of it, but it also is a beautiful resort.

 

[ParentsOf4]

IMO - the Disney Deluxes are close to the UNI hotels but with more theme park/Disney details. So they have more than the UNI stuff as an attraction, but as a hotel they are pretty similar and the various pros/cons probably wash each other out. So generally I'd put say the WL over Royal Pacific... but not because it's a greater hotel, but more of an attraction in itself. Neither are top shelf hotel experiences worthy of $300+/night.

Universal's Deluxe Resort hotel rate is largely driven by the transformational experience provided by their unlimited Express Pass for nearly all attractions at Uni's two theme parks. Having access to unlimited fast passes all day long makes for a completely different experience at the theme parks.

If WDW's Deluxe Resorts offered a comparable service, then WDW's Deluxe Resort prices would be well-justified (IMHO).

If WDW offered such a service, then they'd have to build more Deluxe Resort hotels, not convert existing Deluxe Resort rooms to DVC (IMHO).

 

[devoy1701]

If people are willing to pay to stay on property and they'll keep coming, they haven't priced their rooms out of the market. They may have priced you or I out of their market, but the market is fine as long as enough people are willing and able to pay their rates.

Yes. But they're having to shrink their supply in order to keep demand up to warrant that price, which is what the second half of my comment suggested.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

I think that is a large part of it, but it also is a beautiful resort.

It is beautiful. We stayed there recently. Our room was in bad shape though. Hopefully POFQ is better than my experience at POR.

 

[bhg469]

Universal's Deluxe Resort hotel rate is largely driven by the transformational experience provided by their unlimited Express Pass for nearly all attractions at Uni's two theme parks. Having access to unlimited fast passes all day long makes for a completely different experience at the theme parks.

If WDW's Deluxe Resorts offered a comparable service, then WDW's Deluxe Resort prices would be well-justified (IMHO).

If WDW offered such a service, then they'd have to build more Deluxe Resort hotels, not convert existing Deluxe Resort rooms to DVC (IMHO).

WDW would have to go beyond just offering more fast passes to resorot guests though. Universal did the smart thing and limited their fast pass system and it works so much better for everyone. I know people will flame me but disney needs to not mak it available to everyone or at lease limit the free usability of it.

Either that or discount park admission for length of stay..