The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
This post struck a chord with me. I have only visited WDW since 2000 so I'm relatively new to them. Even when I try to have a relaxing WDW vacation, I still tend to go into commando mode (insert obvious joke here). A basic package with hotel, park tickets, and dining is so expensive that it's hard to for me to justify doing things like water skiing because I will feel like I have wasted a perfectly good park day - a park that I spent a lot of money to be in.

I think that's why the deluxe hotels have suffered. How many times have you read on these boards "all we need is a place to sleep and shower"? I have said it myself. We spend so much on park tickets that it seems silly to waste time doing other things like sitting at the pool or visiting the spa or plopping down another $50 to go play miniature golf when we have valid park ticket. In turn, it seems like a lot of amenities have been removed because people weren't using them or they weren't bringing in enough profit to justify their existence. That in turn, makes people look for lower priced options because, as you said "WDW is just theme parks + hotels" not a true resort experience. Instead of steering people back into focusing on WDW as a resort with more to offer than just theme parks, they "resorted" to raising prices to cover the ground they lost while continuing to take away things that add intrinsic value. It's kind of a vicious cycle. They seem to realize that there is a problem (the commercial from earlier this year was focused more on the hotel stay than the parks), but I don't think they have hit on a good solution for this.

This is starting to make sense now. I like the way you made your inference and I think you're exactly right. It's so hard to plan "down time" in a WDW vacation anymore, and it is hard to justify spending so much on a hotel room if you're just going to commando the parks. It's not about "something for everyone" anymore...it's all about the parks. People aren't looking to spend a full week at Disney World and divide that time among shopping, lounging by the pool, golfing, and just relaxing. It's all about maximizing that time in the parks.

I might have missed the stats earlier, are the deluxe resorts suffering the most in terms of occupancy rates? If so, then this logic holds true. If guests aren't willing to or don't want to spend on those peripheral experiences, then they have to raise prices on hotel rates for Mods and Values, or increase ticket prices twice a year, and lower costs at restaurants, and focus more on the recurring guests of DVC.

EDIT TYPOS: I swapped out some key words in that first paragraph!
 
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Certainly that is a huge (I'd argue.. 75% or more) of the reason for staying there and justifying the prices. But doesn't change the hotel experience or how it stacks up :)
nah, they'd just tack the 'value' on top of the old prices :(
When my parents took me in the 80s.. we stayed at the deluxes and I felt we had a 'vacation kingdom' experience. It also helps we used to always do the 'all inclusive' keys to the kingdom program so we had unlimited food and recreation. I learned to water ski at WDW, I used to love the mini boats, etc.
Since the 90s.. when I had to pay the bills... we've only stayed offsite, values, or shades of green. I wish my children would have been able to get the kind of experiences I had a kid -- but I don't think it's the choice of hotel that really is holding them back.
The thought that keeps striking a nerve for me is... the things that stand out to me the most about WDW as a child and young adult are NOT THE ATTRACTIONS. It was the sum of the parts, and frankly far more of the experience that wasn't rides. Be it dining, recreation, immersion, atmosphere, service, unique experiences, etc. It wasn't that WDW had POTC that made it such an exotic place to me compared to Kings Dominion... it was everything that made up my vacation that made WDW unlike anywhere else on earth.
To me that is the greatest crime... that Disney has steered everyone into being park commandos that WDW is just theme parks + hotels. We do it now too.. stay in the parks till all hours and do the parks everyday. It's behavior shaped by Disney's offerings and pricing models.

I was just thinking along those same lines, though I have a different view on one point.

The "Vacation Kingdom of the World" mindset is very much alive and well..........in DVC Members.

Being a member myself for over a decade, I've had a chance to chit-chat with a great many other members. We'd discuss our motivations for buying in, etc. Though there is a theme park commando element, most everyone I've talked to was the opposite. While the theme parks may be a component of their trip, it certainly was far from the focus. Most mention the desire escape from the rat race of life, relax and spend quality family time. There is a sizable number that have spent an entire trip without ever stepping foot into any of the parks.

It seems DVC appeals to this type of vacationer and it kind of got me thinking. Maybe the DVCifying of the resorts is, on top of being profitable, a signal WDW is returning to it's "Vacation Kingdom of the World" roots and want to attract that kind of vacationer via DVC. Much like FP+ spreading the crowds around to underutilized attractions, the non-commandos would spread around the property using underutilized assets.

Some off the wall thoughts I know. But maybe plausible given what we are seeing.

Edit: Removed second instance of the quote.
 
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crispy

Well-Known Member
I was just thinking along those same lines, though I have a different view on one point.

The "Vacation Kingdom of the World" mindset is very much alive and well..........in DVC Members.

Being a member myself for over a decade, I've had a chance to chit-chat with a great many other members. We'd discuss our motivations for buying in, etc. Though there is a theme park commando element, most everyone I've talked to was the opposite. While the theme parks may be a component of their trip, it certainly was far from the focus. Most mention the desire escape from the rat race of life, relax and spend quality family time. There is a sizable number that have spent an entire trip without ever stepping foot into any of the parks.

It seems DVC appeals to this type of vacationer and it kind of got me thinking. Maybe the DVCifying of the resorts is, on top of being profitable, a signal WDW is returning to it's "Vacation Kingdom of the World" roots and want to attract that kind of vacationer via DVC. Much like FP+ spreading the crowds around to underutilized attractions, the non-commandos would spread around the property using underutilized assets.

Some off the wall thoughts I know. But maybe plausible given what we are seeing.

Edit: Removed second instance of the quote.

I hope you are right! :)
 

LuvtheGoof

DVC Guru
Premium Member
I was just thinking along those same lines, though I have a different view on one point.

The "Vacation Kingdom of the World" mindset is very much alive and well..........in DVC Members.

Being a member myself for over a decade, I've had a chance to chit-chat with a great many other members. We'd discuss our motivations for buying in, etc. Though there is a theme park commando element, most everyone I've talked to was the opposite. While the theme parks may be a component of their trip, it certainly was far from the focus. Most mention the desire escape from the rat race of life, relax and spend quality family time. There is a sizable number that have spent an entire trip without ever stepping foot into any of the parks.

It seems DVC appeals to this type of vacationer and it kind of got me thinking. Maybe the DVCifying of the resorts is, on top of being profitable, a signal WDW is returning to it's "Vacation Kingdom of the World" roots and want to attract that kind of vacationer via DVC. Much like FP+ spreading the crowds around to underutilized attractions, the non-commandos would spread around the property using underutilized assets.

Some off the wall thoughts I know. But maybe plausible given what we are seeing.

Edit: Removed second instance of the quote.
We are the same way. We never commando the parks, and don't really mind if we miss an attraction, because we know that we will be back soon. We tend to spend a lot more time at the resort, and the parks become secondary. We are lucky if we spend 3 or 4 hours in a day at any one park.
 

John

Well-Known Member
Certainly that is a huge (I'd argue.. 75% or more) of the reason for staying there and justifying the prices. But doesn't change the hotel experience or how it stacks up :)



nah, they'd just tack the 'value' on top of the old prices :(

When my parents took me in the 80s.. we stayed at the deluxes and I felt we had a 'vacation kingdom' experience. It also helps we used to always do the 'all inclusive' keys to the kingdom program so we had unlimited food and recreation. I learned to water ski at WDW, I used to love the mini boats, etc.

Since the 90s.. when I had to pay the bills... we've only stayed offsite, values, or shades of green. I wish my children would have been able to get the kind of experiences I had a kid -- but I don't think it's the choice of hotel that really is holding them back.

The thought that keeps striking a nerve for me is... the things that stand out to me the most about WDW as a child and young adult are NOT THE ATTRACTIONS. It was the sum of the parts, and frankly far more of the experience that wasn't rides. Be it dining, recreation, immersion, atmosphere, service, unique experiences, etc. It wasn't that WDW had POTC that made it such an exotic place to me compared to Kings Dominion... it was everything that made up my vacation that made WDW unlike anywhere else on earth.

To me that is the greatest crime... that Disney has steered everyone into being park commandos that WDW is just theme parks + hotels. We do it now too.. stay in the parks till all hours and do the parks everyday. It's behavior shaped by Disney's offerings and pricing models.

This right here ........BOOM! Ladies and Gentleman.....Judge Flynni does it again!
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
When you look at it purely from a business perspective, converting existing Deluxe Resort rooms to DVC is a low-risk, high-return investment whose potential downside is many years into the future. For an organization that's reluctant to make significant capital investments in Orlando, it's a (financially) sound move.

All things considered, construction of the Villas at the Grand Floridian (VGF) is more difficult to fathom. (And I've heard stories.;)) Moving forward, it appears that Disney's DVC plans will be more attune to what's happenings at the Poly; not what happened at the Grand Floridian.

I understand that you might not consider it a tragedy, but I find it thoroughly depressing to realize that between the Poly and apparently now the WL, corporate Disney effectively is signaling that WDW is 'done'. Yes, there will be updates from time-to-time but WDW's glory days are firmly in the past. :depressed:

Your last statement is an apocalyptic leap based on the first part. Just because they are remixing DVC rooms vs Deluxe doesn't mean they won't reinvest in the parks. I think that is a false correlation. Remember there was a time when UNI didn't invest in their parks and sat back as WDW dominated the industry, folks seem to forget that. At some point the pendulum will swing back and WDW will be more aggressive and folks will forget that they didn't invest heavily right now. If UNI had been more aggressive sooner, Disney probably wouldnt have slowed down in the first place.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Your last statement is an apocalyptic leap based on the first part. Just because they are remixing DVC rooms vs Deluxe doesn't mean they won't reinvest in the parks. I think that is a false correlation. Remember there was a time when UNI didn't invest in their parks and sat back as WDW dominated the industry, folks seem to forget that. At some point the pendulum will swing back and WDW will be more aggressive and folks will forget that they didn't invest heavily right now. If UNI had been more aggressive sooner, Disney probably wouldnt have slowed down in the first place.
What got the pendulum at Uni to swing the other way was Comcast bought them. Maybe someone will buy WDW.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Your last statement is an apocalyptic leap based on the first part. Just because they are remixing DVC rooms vs Deluxe doesn't mean they won't reinvest in the parks. I think that is a false correlation. Remember there was a time when UNI didn't invest in their parks and sat back as WDW dominated the industry, folks seem to forget that. At some point the pendulum will swing back and WDW will be more aggressive and folks will forget that they didn't invest heavily right now. If UNI had been more aggressive sooner, Disney probably wouldnt have slowed down in the first place.
What pendulum? Walt Disney World dominated the industry because of internal factors that have all but been removed.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
What got the pendulum at Uni to swing the other way was Comcast bought them. Maybe someone will buy WDW.

We don't want to go down that road. It almost went that way a few years ago. While a new owner COULD pour money in, they could also cut every unnecessary cost. And with every corporation selling off parts for seemingly no reason - the possibly of TWDC selling off the parks and licensing the characters/properties to the new owners is not far-fetched at all.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
We don't want to go down that road. It almost went that way a few years ago. While a new owner COULD pour money in, they could also cut every unnecessary cost. And with every corporation selling off parts for seemingly no reason - the possibly of TWDC selling off the parks and licensing the characters/properties to the new owners is not far-fetched at all.
No, they couldn't. The agreement would closely follow the 1970s OLC model where TWDC would compel them to adhere to the standards WDPR is supposed to be. It would be the best thing that could happen
 

DisneyDenis

New Member
I am new here, but thought I would add my 2 cents to this discussion. I "own" DVC points at BWV.and SSR.

I am absolutely thrilled that Disney is probably going to do what the OP has stated: convert most/half Deluxe resort Hotel rooms into DVC, except for the Contemporary and YC.

It gives me more 7 month options and recently I have gotten into renting my DVC points. Now more rental opportunities. I might even purchase points at the perhaps - to - be new WL-DVC. I view DVC cost/expense/revenue from renting using an annuity model. I will discuss that on another forum later, but this could work out.

Just expressing my gratitude to the Disney execs whose short term thinking has pleased me a lot.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
No, they couldn't. The agreement would closely follow the 1970s OLC model where TWDC would compel them to adhere to the standards WDPR is supposed to be. It would be the best thing that could happen

Depends on the terms. You're not going to get buyer if said buyer won't make money.
 

Mouse_Trap

Well-Known Member
Don't really want to go OT in this direction and people always feel like they are being singled out ... BUT in almost 40 years of visiting WDW, I feel pretty safe in saying that in my experiences guests have never been cruder, never baser, never more boorish, never trashier (regardless of how much money they have or level of resort they stay at) than they are right now. That's an opinion, and you may not like it but that is my experience. ... I'll also say flat out that UNI resorts TODAY attract a much higher level, more sophisticated and classier traveler than WDW resorts. Just observations ... but like I said, I have been visiting since 1974 and I do travel extensively, so I see a lot of good, bad and ugly.

And the WDW guest of 2014 isn't the WDW guest of 1974, 1984, 1994 ... WDW attracts a much lower element today than it once did.

Interesting observation, I've not been going as long....just a mere 15 years but think I know what you mean.

Do you see this change in behaviours from park guests across the board, international guests (brazilian tour groups excepted) or americans?
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
I am new here, but thought I would add my 2 cents to this discussion. I "own" DVC points at BWV.and SSR.

I am absolutely thrilled that Disney is probably going to do what the OP has stated: convert most/half Deluxe resort Hotel rooms into DVC, except for the Contemporary and YC.

It gives me more 7 month options and recently I have gotten into renting my DVC points. Now more rental opportunities. I might even purchase points at the perhaps - to - be new WL-DVC. I view DVC cost/expense/revenue from renting using an annuity model. I will discuss that on another forum later, but this could work out.

Just expressing my gratitude to the Disney execs whose short term thinking has pleased me a lot.
Short-term thinking, long-term impact. But as long as you're content....
 

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