The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[DonaldDoleWhip]

How high will the maintenance fees climb when there's no or very few non-DVC rooms bringing in revenue for it? The maintenance fees, coupled with the average per stay over the life of the DVC contract is always what's kept me away. Same old argument for/against DVC I know, I just sometimes feel as though the per night rates are inflated mainly to drive folks to DVC just because of the perceived value those high rates create.

What can I say - it worked. It's really no different from Food and Beverage's strategy ever since the DDP rose to prominence.

That might be one of the reasons why this DVC influx has harmed WDW beyond repair - they need the rack rates (and even the post-discount rates) to be as high as they are, so DVC makes sense to more people. In our case, it worked because we wanted some guaranteed nights at GF each year. Other people will abandon ship (which must be happening already, based on the occupancy rates being discussed).

 

[jt04]

Which translated out means that they feel that no matter what Uni does it is not going to break the trance like hold WDW has on the public. They will have to share the people, but, all that will do is help control the crowding currently happening at WDW. I don't for a minute doubt that this bubble will eventually break, but, until then it is business as usual for the WDC.

It is not a bubble. And easier transportation and an ever expanding international customer base ensures that. Just wait a couple years DAK will show that growth along with DHS just in numbers going through the gate.

 

[PhotoDave219]

This company...... Man. It's just all about the money. Reflection of modern business today, how much can you screw your customers, screw your employees and milk it for every dollar possible.

That's CEO of the year material....

 

[Captain Chaos]

They can't. And that's the problem.

From 1991-2000, DVC amounted to four resorts, two of which were not even at WDW, one not even in the state of Florida. Since then ... well, take a look. I know DVCers hate this, but the increase in their ranks has come right along with the Walmarting of WDW and the parks getting stale and neglected. I wish the DVC rank and file started a campaign to bring change to WDW. I'd certainly help them. But I get the feeling that even those unhappy, the ones who stay at WDW but visit UNI instead, just are apathetic about things.

Here is the question: Where are you going to find the unhappy DVC members? I can stand up and say I am one of them, but, I'm the only one I know. I have friends who are DVC members, and if you dare mention the decline of the parks, they become more vicious than the V infected vampires on True Blood. Find them on fan sites? Hardly a chance of that happening. Any Disney fan site I read, in the DVC sections, you won't find many disgruntled DVC members. And if you do, they all say the same thing, A DAY IN A RUN DOWN MK IS BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. If you dare say you are going to stay in your DVC but visit only Uni, you get chastised.

So, do disgruntled DVC members, who are appalled by the state of decay in WDW and want change, exist in large enough numbers to even get their attention?

Or would Disney even care?

 

[Captain Chaos]

This company...... Man. It's just all about the money. Reflection of modern business today, how much can you screw your customers, screw your employees and milk it for every dollar possible.

That's CEO of the year material....

Which is why he received CEO of the Year.

 

[doctornick]

They simply did/do not see UNI as a real threat? Arrogance? complacency? All of the above?

I don't think that's really it. I think it's more that they don't care if Uni is thriving or outshining them. They are concerned more about short term profits. Specific to Uni:

1. They probably feel "a rising tide lifts all ships" and figure that they will benefit by having Uni draw people to central FL and will get some of those vacation days
2. They are still insanely profitable even if they lose some days to Uni

To bring it more directly to this topic, they are probably more bothered by decreased resort occupancy than losing theme park days. And we are seeing their response.

 

[jt04]

Here is the question: Where are you going to find the unhappy DVC members? I can stand up and say I am one of them, but, I'm the only one I know. I have friends who are DVC members, and if you dare mention the decline of the parks, they become more vicious than the V infected vampires on True Blood. Find them on fan sites? Hardly a chance of that happening. Any Disney fan site I read, in the DVC sections, you won't find many disgruntled DVC members. And if you do, they all say the same thing, A DAY IN A RUN DOWN MK IS BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. If you dare say you are going to stay in your DVC but visit only Uni, you get chastised.

So, do disgruntled DVC members, who are appalled by the state of decay in WDW and want change, exist in large enough numbers to even get their attention?

The DVC owners at SSR are likely to be even more pleased soon. I know I would be if I had Disney Springs right outside my door.

 

[Fantasmicguy]

Sleepee Teepee Motel - $29 a night...

Fun fact the Cozy Cone Motel from the movie Cars were based of these.

Edit: They were actually based on the wygwogm motels( similar design as these )

 

[danv3]

Here is the question: Where are you going to find the unhappy DVC members? I can stand up and say I am one of them, but, I'm the only one I know. I have friends who are DVC members, and if you dare mention the decline of the parks, they become more vicious than the V infected vampires on True Blood. Find them on fan sites? Hardly a chance of that happening. Any Disney fan site I read, in the DVC sections, you won't find many disgruntled DVC members. And if you do, they all say the same thing, A DAY IN A RUN DOWN MK IS BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. If you dare say you are going to stay in your DVC but visit only Uni, you get chastised.

So, do disgruntled DVC members, who are appalled by the state of decay in WDW and want change, exist in large enough numbers to even get their attention?

Or would Disney even care?

I'm a disgruntled DVC owner. And no, Disney doesn't care. They know people like us are locked in for nearly 30 more years. I'm just thankful I only bought a small contract (100 points) at resale and paid cash.

 

[TinkerBelle8878]

I guess the good news is that there's not going to be any more Deluxe DVC built.

The bad news is that they've ruined everything with it already. When they were building the Beach Club DVC years and years ago, I saw the construction and thought..I don't like whatever this is. It crowded that whole area more and made it undesirable. Growing up, my family stayed at Y&B because of the 3 kids, 5 people, 1 room issue. Only the Deluxes would fit us. So long before Boardwalk was built, back when Beaches and Cream had milkshakes that were the size of McDonald's large beverage cups, this area was lovely to walk and swim in Stormalong bay at night and see Illuminations fireworks.

DVC ruined Contemporary, is going to ruin Poly too. This isn't doom and gloom but facts.

I'm sorry the news of no more Deluxe DVCs didn't pre-empt the Poly DVC.

The only good DVC, in my opinion, if they HAD to build it would've been in the River Country area. Just because its sitting there decaying and at least it would be something.

As for Disney knowing about Potter 2.0 back when the shark was still swimming, that's when the iron should've struck with Lucasfilm. Forget James Cameron and Avatar. They could've saved money and alot of planning time if they really wanted to fight back.

 

[Richterbon23]

Here is the question: Where are you going to find the unhappy DVC members? I can stand up and say I am one of them, but, I'm the only one I know. I have friends who are DVC members, and if you dare mention the decline of the parks, they become more vicious than the V infected vampires on True Blood. Find them on fan sites? Hardly a chance of that happening. Any Disney fan site I read, in the DVC sections, you won't find many disgruntled DVC members. And if you do, they all say the same thing, A DAY IN A RUN DOWN MK IS BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. If you dare say you are going to stay in your DVC but visit only Uni, you get chastised.

So, do disgruntled DVC members, who are appalled by the state of decay in WDW and want change, exist in large enough numbers to even get their attention?

Or would Disney even care?

I am a very disgruntled DVC Member. I bought in 3 years ago with my fiancé and while we really love aspects of it, I am incredibly ed off at what the parks have become. I would gladly just stay at the resort and go to UNI... next years trip will have a large portion at UNI because I am dying to go see Diagon Alley. Disney needs to wake up sooner rather than later because while they have some of my money, they won't be getting much more in the future if this keeps up.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm a disgruntled DVC owner. And no, Disney doesn't care. They know people like us are locked in for nearly 30 more years. I'm just thankful I only bought a small contract (100 points) at resale and paid cash.

Glad you are disgruntled.... But as I type this response, I notice you are staying at Saratoga Springs and Boardwalk Villas in 87 days. Maybe this is why Disney won't care. Yes they have our money, but, to the point I was making above, even disgruntled DVC members still go despite being disgruntled. That's the point. 74 says he'd like to see some sort of DVC member uprising. Where would we find such members? I already know the answer is nowhere, unless he knows something else which he hasn't shared on here.

DVC members will still go to WDW, still visit their parks, despite complaining left and right. And I'm not calling you out, I went last year. But, i do have a good reason: my brother wanted to go for the first time in 12 years. So, I went with him. otherwise, yes, my plans were a few days at Universal's parks and doing other things with friends, no WDW parks.

I'll have a good chunk of points for next year (over 400) since I have no trips this year. I'm really tempted to do a solo trip, visit universal, and other sites in Florida with friends, and no Disney parks or restaurants. Or maybe visit other Disney DVC resorts in other states, availability pending of course.

 

[GoofGoof]

Here is the question: Where are you going to find the unhappy DVC members? I can stand up and say I am one of them, but, I'm the only one I know. I have friends who are DVC members, and if you dare mention the decline of the parks, they become more vicious than the V infected vampires on True Blood. Find them on fan sites? Hardly a chance of that happening. Any Disney fan site I read, in the DVC sections, you won't find many disgruntled DVC members. And if you do, they all say the same thing, A DAY IN A RUN DOWN MK IS BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. If you dare say you are going to stay in your DVC but visit only Uni, you get chastised.

So, do disgruntled DVC members, who are appalled by the state of decay in WDW and want change, exist in large enough numbers to even get their attention?

Or would Disney even care?

No and nope. They don't exist in large enough numbers and Disney doesn't care much either. As they keep increasing DVC there could be a tipping point where DVC members make up a large enough group to get noticed. DVC still only makes up about 10 to 15% of hotel rooms on property and at least half of the park visitors don't stay on site (maybe more than half) so 5% to 10% of total visitors max. If they were all unhappy (which they aren't) it could maybe be a big enough number to start a movement, but the guest base of WDW is so varied and would be really hard to organize. Guests from all over the U.S., Brazilians, British and other Europeans including lots of one time or infrequent visitors. It's not like DL with its large base of AP holders who could be somewhat rallied by a small group into action.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I am a very disgruntled DVC Member. I bought in 3 years ago with my fiancé and while we really love aspects of it, I am incredibly ed off at what the parks have become. I would gladly just stay at the resort and go to UNI... next years trip will have a large portion at UNI because I am dying to go see Diagon Alley. Disney needs to wake up sooner rather than later because while they have some of my money, they won't be getting much more in the future if this keeps up.

But, are you still going to go to the WDW parks? Which, again, was my point above.

Are DVC members disgruntled enough to NOT step foot into one WDW park or restaurant? So far, that answer has been no. Even though Uni may be getting more and more days from DVC members, they aren't giving up WDW parks.

 

[doctornick]

Call me naive, but if you are disgruntled DVC owner, isn't the easy answer to sell? It seems like DVC still has pretty good resale value, right?

 

[Captain Chaos]

No and nope. They don't exist in large enough numbers and Disney doesn't care much either. As they keep increasing DVC there could be a tipping point where DVC members make up a large enough group to get noticed. DVC still only makes up about 10 to 15% of hotel rooms on property and at least half of the park visitors don't stay on site (maybe more than half) so 5% to 10% of total visitors max. If they were all unhappy (which they aren't) it could maybe be a big enough number to start a movement, but the guest base of WDW is so varied and would be really hard to organize. Guests from all over the U.S., Brazilians, British and other Europeans including lots of one time or infrequent visitors. It's not like DL with its large base of AP holders who could be somewhat rallied by a small group into action.

And GoofGoof hits the nail on the head. There wouldn't be enough disgruntled DVC members to make Disney stand up and take notice.

 

[Mike S]

Just one last point on the UNI tidbit that I teased on the first page.

I'll go into depth more (likely over the weekend, but if I disappear for a few days ... please, don't fill this with BS and rants about be promising!) but have talked a lot to some friends who work for UNI and (this may or may not be a surprise ... folks here all have varying degrees of knowledge about the business of parks) and understand this: Disney, at the highest levels, knew exactly (and I do mean exactly) what UNI was building in Potter 2.0 when the shark was still lurking in Amity.

They knew. They were aware. They had chances to put things on a fast track. And what you have is New Fantasyland, new DVC and MM+ ... (please, I'm begging here, don't take this into a compare and contrast the companies deal ... we've done that in approximately 6,569,900 threads here!) ... But there are no secrets in the business at the highest levels and it was well known what would happen (probably well before I even put it out there).

That is just maddening. How could NO ONE at Disney want to get something big open this year to combat Potter? (I will laugh in the face of anyone who brings up 7DMT) If what you say is true then it's possible the higher ups in Disney also know about Universal's plans for a third park and all their other expansion plans and probably won't do anything about those either I know you said you don't want this thread to become another "Disney vs. Uni" topic but I just had to get that out. I won't bring it up again.

 

[GoofGoof]

Glad you are disgruntled.... But as I type this response, I notice you are staying at Saratoga Springs and Boardwalk Villas in 87 days. Maybe this is why Disney won't care. Yes they have our money, but, to the point I was making above, even disgruntled DVC members still go despite being disgruntled. That's the point. 74 says he'd like to see some sort of DVC member uprising. Where would we find such members? I already know the answer is nowhere, unless he knows something else which he hasn't shared on here.

DVC members will still go to WDW, still visit their parks, despite complaining left and right. And I'm not calling you out, I went last year. But, i do have a good reason: my brother wanted to go for the first time in 12 years. So, I went with him. otherwise, yes, my plans were a few days at Universal's parks and doing other things with friends, no WDW parks.

I'll have a good chunk of points for next year (over 400) since I have no trips this year. I'm really tempted to do a solo trip, visit universal, and other sites in Florida with friends, and no Disney parks or restaurants. Or maybe visit other Disney DVC resorts in other states, availability pending of course.

Not to get off on a tangent but we just did a long weekend at the DVC at Hilton Head. It's pretty nice. Old school Disney in a lot of ways. A high level of service and a lot of stuff to do. While I was there I saw 3 different guys painting things that needed touch up. This wasn't a renovation or anything, it was a maintenance guy doing touch up work since he saw a scrape. I feel like that's how WDW always was in the past.

 

[Funmeister]

The only way to get the attention of Disney is lower DVC sales. Not sure how anyone could effectively notify the general public with a "buyer beware" type message.

At this point the debates are beginning to run together. They are tiring. I am just about convinced that nothing will change until the "value engineering" of the entire resort reaches a critical mass (not being able to cheapen it any further) and a major house cleaning takes place. I anticipate nothing will happen until 2016 at the earliest when Iger leaves (unless he decides to stay longer...again.)

Any insight @WDW1974 on what it would/will take for the pendulum to begin swinging back the other way? If ever?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Call me naive, but if you are disgruntled DVC owner, isn't the easy answer to sell? It seems like DVC still has pretty good resale value, right?

And you bring up another good point. If you are disgruntled, SELL. Even more incentive for Disney to not care. Which is why it is useless for DVC members who are not happy or who are disgruntled to even try to unite to show Disney how unhappy they are... DISNEY: Sell your DVC, we don't care. We still have your money and we'll have a very easy to appease new member. Or don't sell, who cares? We still have your money so shove this deed where the sun don't shine. Oh and we are jacking your monthly maintenance fees 10% this year!!!