The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Seems the crazies have invaded. Just a matter of time. My advice isn't ignore. My advice is simply report the post to the mods as off-topic or trolling. This thread would be just fine with a few pages of posts disappearing.

We have plenty of threads discussing the amazing new mall Disney is building out of their existing mall. Unless someone can find a legit way of connecting it to the topics here, we might want it gone.

Trolls are wonderful fun, right? Who didn't enjoy Jimmy Thick's schtick here for seven or eight years, right? Added tremendous joy to serious intellectual topics, right? Geez.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
On the OT ... seems many DVCers are not fond of the new-look redone Villas at WL. Seems they did a rush job and cheapened the look by lightening them up. I have heard ''generic'' and ''all the DVCs are starting to look the same'' on DVC forums. Gee, with One Disney mentality why would this surprise anyone?

What I loved about the WL (and DAK Lodge), amongst other things, is they were darker. The theme was rustic and so the units didn't look like a bright day at the beach or a modern O-Town condo with a few pieces of decoration thrown in. ... Seems like lots of folks agree/ed with me but were likely shot down by the loudmouths who always seem to win the day at the World.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Interesting . . . could you give an example of an incident where things would have been nightmarish for us? I'm curious to know what might have been
A big one that I can think of off-hand was that most of the parks and resorts capital expense plans were for overseas projects. This included important refurbishments. Fortunately, state-side projects were added back to the company's list of priorities.
 

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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That's my gut feeling too. They aren't going to make it cheaper because it hurts their bottom line. They would be essentially turning CBR into SSR part 2. They did have the most trouble unloading SSR points and it usually has the most availability out of DVC resorts. People like having a DVC that's attached to a deluxe resort and/or has unique transportation to a park.

Indeed, that is a huge problem with DVC and has been as it has spread like a cancer around WDW.

People who could never afford WDW deluxe (and often moderate) resorts at vastly lower prices wanted to do so. After all, if you used to stay at the Holiday Inn on I-Drive (before the chain actually began investing in its properties ...maybe I should have said Days Inn) and once in a while you'd step up and splurge on the , who wouldn't want to be able to stay at the Beach Club or WL or DAK Lodge at vastly discounted prices?

Much better than staying at WDW's version of Vistana or Orange Lake or Bonnet Creek or any of the countless timeshare resorts within 20 minutes of WDW, right? (BTW, WDW's version would be self-contained resorts like OKW and SS, which ALWAYS are available, even with discounts for rental as hotel rooms thru Disney itself).

Who wouldn't want to stay at the Beach Club for what amounts to $110 a night (AFTER your original purchase price has been paid?) ... Of course, the Beach Club ceased to be the Beach Club when the Villas opened and folks like you moved into it and took over.

That's the whole DVC problem. The ONLY resort I haven't seen this at is in Anaheim at the Grand Californian, which has a tiny amount of dedicated DVC units.
 

Mr. Moderate

Well-Known Member
It is apparent that anyone who has a differing opinion on this site, especially pro Disney anything is likely going to be bashed and ridiculed. Why can't we just have differing opinions and say it is what it is....or ever better have an open mind.

More on this site are now against Disney than I am and others are for it....though I know I will be attacked by many saying that is untrue and I'm just a pixie duster or a Disney w- etc it's becoming sad

This board would be a much nicer place if....wait for it....it were a much nicer place.

Personal attacks and just going after someone personally because they look at things differently than you is getting old


Enjoy and let the bashing replies begin


I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with your post above, which btw, has a very strong passive aggressive feel to it, and I have no clear idea who you are directing towards. I love the Disney parks, including what USO has to offer and have spent an embarrassing amount of time and money visiting them the past 12 years or so. FTR, I can both be fan of them and critical of them as well when I see things that trouble me and a direction I feel is the wrong one to take. I don't believe in being a "true believer" in anything because imho, that causes people to overlook the obvious that's staring them in the face, but refuse to address it due to some misguided attempt by trying to be loyal at all costs. Sometimes the super fan mentality hurts the team itself and allows those in charge to keep on the same course because why change for the better, if people still keep supporting your product no matter how poor you allow it to get.

WDW is in trouble, most of it lurking under the surface and the powers that be, need to change course for the better. That's my opinion and my love for the parks and what Walt built, won't change that. No pixie dust for me, thank you.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Last time I stayed in an "improved" OKW room, it was a dump. The "charm" looks like makeup caked on an aging starlet. Once you buy, you are stuck for the long-haul decline.

And what happens when you get 'stuck' with a DVC unit that is beat up and you are an 'owner'?

Hasn't happened to 'Angie' and me yet. But if it does, there's going to be a very ugly incident at the front desk if they won't move us to a better unit at that resort or even elsewhere.

The dues paid are for maintaining the resort as close to new as is possible and you damn well know Disney isn't doing that ... I am not sure they are even capable of it right now.

But when you bought, you didn't buy a unit that looked like it had been beat up for a decade-plus with maybe a coat of paint thrown on the walls five years ago.

Like I said, hasn't happened to me, but I have read/heard horror stories and I don't care if they have to move me from a studio at WL to a top suite at the Grand Flo. I won't accept a unit that Karl Holz wouldn't place Bob and Willow into.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Overall, from studios to 2-bedroom villas, BCV is arguably the most popular WDW DVC resort in the system because of its proximity to Epcot. If you think Disney's Polynesian has a loyal following, you should meet the Beach Club Villa owners.

Somehow, in 2012, I managed to book a last-minute 4-night stay during the 1st week of December. The studio, which did overlook the Dunes Cove pool, was very worn. Moreover, I have stayed in LaQuintas in Daphne, Alabama and Radford, Virginia that were significantly nicer for a fraction of the cost.

When people ask me for DVC recommendations, I always suggest staying at the most recently refurbished (hard or soft goods) resort. Yes, DVC allows me to visit more often and stay at a deluxe property, but, sometimes, the villa condition makes me wish I was paying cash for a room at POFQ.

I just flat out wouldn't accept it. And if I couldn't solve the issue with the CMs on-duty, I'd demand a face to face with the GM of the resort. Still no satisfaction? I'd tell said GM to get Karl Holz off his at CP and over to the resort immediately.

People are so afraid to call Disney out when it fails to deliver a product even close to what it sells. You can't be unless you want to be taken for a ride that isn't a great new E-Ticket!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I regularly encourage prospective DVC homeowners to walk the hallways of BCV. Be sure to look up, around and down. The extensive carpet staining, scuffed walls, number of lightbulbs in need of replacement, dust and amount of sheetrock that has been removed will astound you.

Loyalists will tell you that BCV has a worn, grandmother's beach cottage charm.

And 'loyalists' is a very nice way of saying ''addicts' or even 'mentally ill'.

Angie and I walked around the BCV 14 months ago and were appalled at the fact they ripped out first floor carpet (one can only guess how bad it had to be) and stuck in a basic gray carpet that was clearly temporary (which for Disney could mean months or even years). If I owned there and was taking my once a year or once in two years vacation, I can't imagine how that wouldn't incense someone who had 'invested' thousands of dollars to start and then paid Disney annually to keep the property up.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
We always treat our villas with the utmost respect and leave them better than we find them. Upon checking in and opening our villa door, we have vacuumed crumbs and broken blue crayons, picked up trash that was left by previous guests and missed by housekeeping, and properly repositioned furniture that had been rearranged.

I stayed at VGF in December 2013, less than 2 months after its opening, in villa 1404. Adjacent to the bistro table was a 1.5' - 2' in diameter carpet stain. Based on color, it looked like hot chocolate - the entire amount in someone's resort refillable mug. I realize accidents happen, but I have never damaged the fixtures or furnishings of a hotel room.

Although this might sound petty to some, it's similar to the first significant parking lot door dent in your new car.

Great analogy about the car. I spent five years keeping my C-Class Benz looking like new (even when street parking in freaking LA). All it took was one angry (blanker) tourist at a Walgreen's in LBV to put a huge dent in a door (to make matter worse, he looked like he wanted a physical altercation ... guess he OD'd on Pixie Dust!)

But if I have to vacuum when I check into a DVC unit, then something is VERY, VERY, VERY wrong.

And those mugs have destroyed carpeting all over WDW for the last 20 years. But if someone stains carpeting like that and the stain can't be removed, then the carpet flat out should be. Not left there for five plus years.

I think the worst damage I have ever left in any hotel is scuff marks where my suitcase rubbed against a wall.

The fact some DVCers are pigs is Disney's problem, not yours, not mine.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
As far as DVC rooms are concerned or even deluxe resort rooms...with maybe the exception of the new grand Floridian rooms (?) I think Bonnet Creek is better. I was very impressed when I stayed there and I am a DVC member

See...I can call it like it is against Disney at times too lol
 

ScoutN

OV 104
Premium Member
And what happens when you get 'stuck' with a DVC unit that is beat up and you are an 'owner'?

You mean like when a dishwasher with rusted door hinges that make the door fall off when you open in and a 115 pound 55yo woman gets knocked down onto the floor, hits her head on the cabinet, has a few nasty bruises after, and the hotel manager's only reply "If you can stay out of the room for two hours we will replace it." Most places of employment want to send their employees to the hospital if they get bonked in the head just a hair. But it is acceptable for it to happen to a WDW hotel guest of a DVC member and offer nothing.
 

Mouse_Trap

Well-Known Member
The points sold cover almost all of the available rooms 365 days a year. Disney keeps a small percentage of points back when they sell the points. It's mostly for taking rooms offline to do maintenance. If someone trades in their points for a cruise or a stay at a Disney hotel the points go to general reservations to be rented as cash rooms. If a DVC room is not rented by an owner using points it will shift to cash reservations at either the 30 or 60 day point, I can't remember which one. The only way Disney could rent DVC rooms as cash rooms is if Disney kept a portion of the points themselves instead of selling all of them. Then Disney would have to transfer the equivalent of the dues back to the DVC resort. They are run as independent timeshares.

I thought I was following the Disney vs. DVC points quite well.....
But why would Disney need to keep points back for maintenance is they are run independently. Surely it is then DVC doing the maintenance (contracted to WDW maintenance no doubt).
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
But doesn't this also cut out a certain segment of guest who rely on discounted rooms?
Given the potential loss of rooms to the general public, is it safe to assume then that "incentives" like free dining and 30% off rack rates will no longer be necessary to fill up rooms, or will they continue this charade just with a very limited number of appicable rooms?
Most nights, WDW has over 5000 empty rooms, even with the current discounts. Converting 360 rooms at WL to DVC is still going to leave plenty of Deluxe Resort rooms that need filling. :D
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You should see the renovated rooms. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3233143

I certainly would not pay $150-165 per point for these villas if the design carries over to the main lodge. Villas at BLT and VGF are certainly more impressive and have the benefit of the monorail.

While I don't dislike the new look, I don't like it nearly as much as the darker, more rustic look it used to have.

It's obvious to me after seeing the nice redo of OKW, which also muted the theming and made it seem as appropriate for BCV as where it was, that Disney is making many of its DVC units less themed, less special.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
Exactly. For those who keep asking why we should care, the fact that Disney is choosing to spend more on the short-term rather than adding in long-term plusses that would benefit the parks makes it pretty evident what the priorities are at TDO. That's why we, even those of us who don't own dvc, should care.
I realize that people keep claiming that the company is only concerned with short term investments, but the reality is different. These people 'hate' MM+, so they ignore that even though that pile of cash was clearly a long term investment, as was building NFE. Heck, the OP claims that converting hotel rooms is a short term investment when in reality it is a long term play to serve this segment. If the OP is correct that they have had problems filling deluxe rooms (or about practically anything that flows out of his gob), then he should see this change as a positive for the company, but that wouldn't fit into his world view.
 
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Nubs70

Well-Known Member
IMHO, what you write applies to DVC in general.

IMHO, the conversion of WL hotel rooms to DVC (i.e. what started this thread) equally has to do with repurposing unused capacity in order to make it productive.

Once we move past the notion that Disney intends to do nothing to actually fill those empty hotel rooms with cash customers, converting the hotel rooms to DVC is exactly the right move to make.

WL runs at roughly 75% occupancy throughout the year, including rooms offered at discounted rates. Assuming half the rooms are converted to DVC, demand at current prices will exceed supply, allowing Disney to offer fewer discounts for the Wilderness Lodge. With fewer rooms available to cash customers, the hotel portion of the WL will run at a higher occupancy rate and at a higher Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS). Total revenue from the remaining hotel rooms will decline but revenue per available room (RevPAR) will increase, making the remaining hotel rooms better revenue generators on a per-square-foot basis.

Meanwhile the half of the rooms converted to DVC, rather than run at an equivalent of a 50% occupancy rate (again, assuming occupancy was at 75% before the conversion), will run at well over 95% as DVC units.

Although the half of these rooms that were occupied will generate less revenue on a per-square-foot basis, the other half (i.e. the empty rooms) will generate significantly more. Even better, unlike regular hotel rooms, DVC units are counted as two-bedroom equivalents, again improving PRGS. (Essentially, 3 'old' hotel rooms will be counted as 1 DVC unit.)

Simultaneously, Disney will be able to sell the resulting DVC points to extract equity from those converted rooms. The conversion to DVC units might cost roughly $20M but Disney will be able to sell well over 1 million points at ~$150/point, probably realizing something north of $200M in sales, a tidy little profit. :greedy:

If Disney intended to adapt Universal's strategy and make their theme parks more appealing, they'd want to add hotel room capacity, like Universal. By repurposing these rooms, Disney is signaling that they have no intention of following in Universal's footsteps.

IYHO,

This an additional piece of the puzzle that WDW has adopted the strategic position that they will not compete for additional guests to fill the highly profitable resorts. Thus, they have decided to extract the maximum value by the tactical action of DVC expansion while operationally conserving capital by standardizing offerings to as close to a commodity as possible?
 

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