The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[John]

Most nights, WDW has over 5000 empty rooms, even with the current discounts. Converting 360 rooms at WL to DVC is still going to leave plenty of Deluxe Resort rooms that need filling.

Makes sense....hence "the current discounts". In other words.....discounts no longer are working and this cannibalization of the resorts is the next option in line? Is this not a gamble? What happens when the DVC model is no longer in vogue? Counter to what others think I think the middleclass is shrinking. One of the reasons IMO that occupancy is down....other then the price, is the ability of those who pay the price. Its one thing to choose not to pay them but its another for those who can not afford them. That group is growing. I also think the group that can purchase DVC is shrinking as well. Are internationals a big player in the DVC market?

 

[WDW1974]

Can't say I've ever met a Disney exec, should I even want to? (aside from John Lasseter, him I want to meet)

Depends on the execs. I do have some that like me. The info I am able to spew forth sometimes comes from them.

And John Lasseter is a creative genius and the closest thing to a Walt that the WDC has today. I've been lucky enough to meet him and speak with him and, while I don't agree with all of his decisions, the guy gets 'it' ... that 'it' that makes a good film or theme park attraction etc.

I highly advise people here who are not happy with a particular element of Disney to go to the exec or execs in charge directly. Once you are in the email system, they have to respond or have an assistant respond ... and if they divert you to Guest Relations, you go right back and even phone the exec directly. People largely won't do this. But if you don't like DVC or what it is becoming, then email the folks in charge. Fill up their in-boxes and generally be a polite but firm PITA.

 

[GoofGoof]

I thought I was following the Disney vs. DVC points quite well.....
But why would Disney need to keep points back for maintenance is they are run independently. Surely it is then DVC doing the maintenance (contracted to WDW maintenance no doubt).

In this case I was using Disney and DVC interchangeably.

DVC is paying the bill for maintenance from the resort annual budget. DVC declares points into inventory when construction is complete. They generally keep about 2% of the points back and sell the other 98%. Due to foreclosures or buybacks due to right of first refusal, DVC could end up owning more points. Foreclosed or repurchased points are available to be resold. This is why even if a resort isn't being actively marketed and is technically listed as "sold out" there are almost always points available to buy direct from Disney. The holdback 2% allows them to occasionally take a room out of service for maintenance. If they don't need to take it out of service they can release the room to Disney reservations to be rented as a cash room. If rented Disney reservations pays the DVC resort a portion of the rent paid for the room. It's the "breakage income" that another poster talked about earlier.

 

[WDW1974]

Not gonna lie, I got a bit of enjoyment out of that post as well, and kind of wish I had seen it last night.

Thanks.

Post has been edited as I somehow thought it had disappeared incorrectly. Apologies to all.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Makes sense....hence "the current discounts". In other words.....discounts no longer are working and this cannibalization of the resorts is the next option in line? Is this not a gamble? What happens when the DVC model is no longer in vogue? Counter to what others think I think the middleclass is shrinking. One of the reasons IMO that occupancy is down....other then the price, is the ability of those who pay the price. Its one thing to choose not to pay them but its another for those who can not afford them. That group is growing. I also think the group that can purchase DVC is shrinking as well. Are internationals a big player in the DVC market?

Well after years and years of discounts, people grow accustom to them as well as free dining.

You give enough things away for free and the general public tends to expect them. Discounts have ruled for the past 10-12 years and clearly they have not realized how to grow the business organically.

 

[WDW1974]

Well, she is naturally a fan of mine, and I know she thinks highly of Martin.

But, you are correct...there is only one poster here that she has a pet name for. And, no... I won't tell what it is.

Yes. You are right. You may be No. 3 on that list ... not No. 2!!!

 

[WDW1974]

@TP2000 just nominated you to be on "What not to wear..." (his posts remind me of that guy on the show)

Next time I'm in the OC, @TP2000 can take me down to South Coast and buy me a whole new wardrobe!!!

 

[GoofGoof]

Indeed, that is a huge problem with DVC and has been as it has spread like a cancer around WDW.

People who could never afford WDW deluxe (and often moderate) resorts at vastly lower prices wanted to do so. After all, if you used to stay at the Holiday Inn on I-Drive (before the chain actually began investing in its properties ...maybe I should have said Days Inn) and once in a while you'd step up and splurge on the , who wouldn't want to be able to stay at the Beach Club or WL or DAK Lodge at vastly discounted prices?

Much better than staying at WDW's version of Vistana or Orange Lake or Bonnet Creek or any of the countless timeshare resorts within 20 minutes of WDW, right? (BTW, WDW's version would be self-contained resorts like OKW and SS, which ALWAYS are available, even with discounts for rental as hotel rooms thru Disney itself).

Who wouldn't want to stay at the Beach Club for what amounts to $110 a night (AFTER your original purchase price has been paid?) ... Of course, the Beach Club ceased to be the Beach Club when the Villas opened and folks like you moved into it and took over.

That's the whole DVC problem. The ONLY resort I haven't seen this at is in Anaheim at the Grand Californian, which has a tiny amount of dedicated DVC units.

Where I agree is that timeshare vacations and deluxe resorts are typically not combined in the real world. I get the general point you are making, but you are painting with a broad brush. The picture you paint is true for a portion of owners I'm sure, but not all. When you say "folks like you moved in" are you including your friend who is an owner? The DVC ownership group is pretty diverse.

 

[WDW1974]

No, we do not. For those that actually read through all their DVC documents before signing, they will see that by signing, they agree to waive all voting rights for the condominium association; by signing, members relinquish their power to DVC.

If maintenance fees ensured resort improvement, then I would be willing to pay more for a better villa.

Yep. You just have to trust Disney that they would never cut corners, put their own profit and agenda first and neglect their resorts until 2042 or whenever. ... C'mon, how can anyone NOT trust them? Dreams, wishes and MAGIC, guys/gals!

 

[WDW1974]

I would *LOVE* to hear your thoughts on what was done with '33.

I will offer those over in Seventh Heaven as time allows. But, generally, I am sickened and think they destroyed the place to bring in more Lifestyling dollars. From what I have been told, they even invited a social media blogging brigade into the Club this week for a preview. All I could think is: this is a PRIVATE club, the general public shouldn't even really know it exists ... but the whores did just what Disney wanted because they are ignorant and easily bought.

And ... that just is a taste of my opinions.

 

[WDW1974]

Do you mean this post?


It's still there.

What number? I can't find it here ...

 

[WDW1974]

I want to hug this post. Hug it!

Do you want his ego to get any bigger?

 

[Nemo14]

What number? I can't find it here ...

429 - page 22

 

[WDW1974]

We enjoyed the Pirates of the Caribbean inspired room at Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort, particularly all of the little details (e.g., lantern above the compass table, cargo dresser, wood plank carpet). However, even at the discounted rate of $259.88 a night, which includes tax, it was extremely overpriced. Although we used our DVC points for the room, that was the going rate.

Accounting for transportation and amenities, I would not want to pay more than $150 a night for this room.

When CBR opened, rooms started at $64 a night not including any discounts like CMs/APs/FL residents/AAA etc.

In 25 years, all they have done is dumb the resort down (you have no idea how amazing the food court was in the late 80s/early 90s, everything was made fresh and the prices were cheap) ... even with inflation, I have a hard time saying the rack rate should be much more than $129 a night right now ... rack ... not discounted.

Spending $260 a night for a crappy motel room is crazy.

 

[WDW1974]

429 - page 22

Thanks.

 

[Lee]

Still no satisfaction? I'd tell said GM to get Karl Holz off his at CP and over to the resort immediately.

Definately! I know he'd love to see you...

 

[Stitchon]

The biggest difference between Disney Springs and mega malls with entertainment options is that said mega malls have stores and restaurants I actually want to spend my money in. Disney Springs, as of right now, is not an attractive destination and its shopping and dining lineup pales in comparison to the grand-daddies of the Lifestyle Center movement: The Grove and Americana at Brand in Los Angeles and the Easton Town Center in Columbus.

 

[Nemo14]

Thanks.

my pleasure!

 

[WDW1974]

Do you think that there could come a time when TWDC just spins off P&R to another company? A deal like OLC for domestic parks?

I see that happening rather than a massive firing of all the uppermost Suits.

Of course I'd like a huge management reshuffle with many shown the door but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.

Doubt it.

I KNOW it has been considered. I KNOW Disney had investment groups from other nations in WDW 3-4 years ago. I KNOW Wall Street analysts say the idea was floated as far back as 2007.

But it seems to have died. I don't know what it would take to be on the table again ... my guess is one ridiculous offer.

 

[WDW1974]

I have something very important to say.

There are two forces at work within the company. It's been a tug of war between these two forces. If the things concerning the resorts and properties is pursued, the other force will stop it. I personally know this because of conversations I had with members of my family who are good friends with this "counter" force. The counter force prefers not to get involved with company politics and are not employed within the company, but they have enough clout with shareholders to get what they want on the rare occasions when they feel they must speak their mind. There's been a few incidences over the past couple of years where - had they not have spoken up - things would have been nightmarish for us a Disney fans. It sounds like they may have to make another course correction.

So, don't worry about it. These things will not happen. Or it will end as soon as it begins.

With all due respect, Peter. Unless you are willing to talk specifics even privately ... and if not with me with either @Lee or @marni1971 then I am chalking this up to fanboi blather. ... I can't help but think this has something to do with your fantastical tales of having a relative know Steve Jobs' daughter and doing whatever she could to keep you away (by your own admission here) from her at a wedding or some such event. I like dealing with knowns and moving off from there.