The Spirited 11th Hour ...

[PhotoDave219]

This was and continues to be a terrible idea.

How American.

 

[TalkingHead]

TDS is the only quality think Eisner put forth from 1995-2005.

Maybe I'm missing your point, because surely there were other "quality" things during that time. Timekeeper opened late 1994 at MK; Indy opened at DL in 1995; Alien Encounter opened in 95; Animal Kingdom Lodge, 2001; Millennium Celebration and updated Illuminations, Kilimanjaro Safari, Test Track, Fantasmic...

I mean you can argue what "quality" is, but WDW was still annually offering major new additions in the late 1990s.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Maybe I'm missing your point, because surely there were other "quality" things during that time. Timekeeper opened late 1994 at MK; Indy opened at DL in 1995; Alien Encounter opened in 95; Animal Kingdom Lodge, 2001; Millennium Celebration and updated Illuminations, Kilimanjaro Safari, Test Track, Fantasmic...

I mean you can argue what "quality" is, but WDW was still annually offering major new additions in the late 1990s.

Yes, there were a few things here and there... Indy, Kilimanjaro, Alien Encounter (of course that didn't last long), and AK Lodge is very nice... possibly the nicest WDW hotel.

But there is likely an equal amount of things you could argue, even in the weak era of 2005-2015, that got opened/done that were of high quality both domestically and internationally. I just feel like it's more Iger bashing just for the sake of it.

 

[skyphotographer]

With prices this high relative to the local market how does Bob expect that this will be financially self supporting now or ever, The Chinese like to build things because they can as a symbolic representation of their economic power - there are entire CITIES with no inhabitants with the canonical example being Ordos.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-ghost-cities-in-2014-2014-6

There are hundreds more like Ordos, China built these because they COULD, They were not built based on rational analysis or economic need.

So I say again how will SDL pay off for Disney, I expect it will be a long term drain on TWDC just as DLP was and all because Bob wanted to be FIRST on mainland China also without apparent economic analysis.

I'm starting to be reminded of Spendid China.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Maybe I'm missing your point, because surely there were other "quality" things during that time. Timekeeper opened late 1994 at MK; Indy opened at DL in 1995; Alien Encounter opened in 95; Animal Kingdom Lodge, 2001; Millennium Celebration and updated Illuminations, Kilimanjaro Safari, Test Track, Fantasmic...

I mean you can argue what "quality" is, but WDW was still annually offering major new additions in the late 1990s.

I think that's the big thing - there was constantly something new and a constant reinvestment instead of a very stagnant WDW over the past 10 years*.


(*anything with a dessert party simply doesn't count)

 

[Goofyernmost]

Since we are trending toward quality and creativity I'd like to say that yesterday I went into the small Disney Store in Raleigh. Or I guess I should say the Star Wars/ Disney Store! If you don't think those guys have imagination where real income is concerned I defy you to look at the variety of merchandise, Star Wars related, that are currently stocked in the stores. I can't even begin to list the sheer numbers and different things that were created to the Star Wars theme. It is mind blowing.

 

[BrianLo]

The total for the current Animal Kingdom expansion is $1 Billion which includes Pandora, Rivers of Light, New Harambe Theater, new dining (Tiffins and Harambe Market), and minor refurbishments and refinements (Tree of Life rehab).

However, $500-600 million for Soarin' 2.0, a C-Ticket boat ride, and food/merch stands is ridiculous. That's as bad as the substance less, but pretty New Fantasyland.

You'd be surprised, I truly believe it's just Pandora creeping up to that number... @Disneyhead'71 @WDW1974

I won't try to convince you otherwise that the project is more impressive than you give it credit for, that way you can be pleasantly surprised. Which is really what put the final nail in NFL, overinflated expectations.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You'd be surprised, I truly believe it's just Pandora creeping up to that number... @Disneyhead'71 @WDW1974

I won't try to convince you otherwise that the project is more impressive than you give it credit for, that way you can be pleasantly surprised. Which is really what put the final nail in NFL, overinflated expectations.

But, then again think of the negativity we heard about the Hub... that turned out pretty nice. It amazed me that the expectations for NFL were so bloated. What did people expect in Fantasyland, the simplest and most child oriented of all the lands.

 

[spacemt354]

But, then again think of the negativity we heard about the Hub... that turned out pretty nice. It amazed me that the expectations for NFL were so bloated. What did people expect in Fantasyland, the simplest and most child oriented of all the lands.

Some Fantasylands can be impressive. Disneyland's is pretty darn good. The best part of NFL were the aesthetics. But there was little to no substance. No E-ticket. A cloned dark ride from DCA, a D-ticket coaster, interactive story-time, and a restaurant.

And people thought we were getting some sort of game-changing land...

 

[Smiddimizer]

But, then again think of the negativity we heard about the Hub... that turned out pretty nice. It amazed me that the expectations for NFL were so bloated. What did people expect in Fantasyland, the simplest and most child oriented of all the lands.

They hyped it up to be that good.

Had they only delivered a tentpole attraction of the same calibre of say...Pooh's Hunny Hunt. Which proves essentially that kiddie rides can be amazing and appeal to everyone.

 

[lazyboy97o]

New Fantasyland doesn't deliver worlds that can be explored. It is just there to look at. Themed entertainment is about active experience, not passive watching. New Fantasyland failed to build a consistent world.

 

[Cesar R M]

The total for the current Animal Kingdom expansion is $1 Billion which includes Pandora, Rivers of Light, New Harambe Theater, new dining (Tiffins and Harambe Market), and minor refurbishments and refinements (Tree of Life rehab).

However, $500-600 million for Soarin' 2.0, a C-Ticket boat ride, and food/merch stands is ridiculous. That's as bad as the substance less, but pretty New Fantasyland.

lets hope theres live shows or stuff to see other than the mountains, I mean.. to level up the land weight.

and no.. putting a "pandorean hot dog karts" manned by a undersized na'vi doesn't count.

 

[Cesar R M]

Some Fantasylands can be impressive. Disneyland's is pretty darn good. The best part of NFL were the aesthetics. But there was little to no substance. No E-ticket. A cloned dark ride from DCA, a D-ticket coaster, interactive story-time, and a restaurant.

And people thought we were getting some sort of game-changing land...

the problem is also that, while the respective attractions are very well themed.. the roads and the areas that connect new fantasyland feel very bland, you seem to be jumping from one extreme to the next (under the sea and then a mountain themed ride..)

 

[TP2000]

Because yesterday at the Pixar short film thingy, another group of CP newbies, one of them was attempting to do the spiel, and after about 2 sentences she got very flustered. To the point of accidentally saying the s-word into the microphone when she obviously couldn't remember what came next.

Ah, yes. Stay classy Orlando!

 

[TP2000]

This was and continues to be a terrible idea.

I disagree. I love Disneyland, and generally think Walt was a genius and great American. In early January I took a trip on the Mark Twain and the Sailing Ship Columbia to say goodbye to the original 1955 river route.

Both attractions were exactly as I remembered, a mellow-at-best and boring-at-worst way to waste 25 minutes at Disneyland. The time the boat is actually moving is about 15 minutes, but there's at least 8 to 12 minutes waiting on the dock and boat to get going, and then 2 or 3 minutes waiting on the boat to be let off. The back half of the trip around the island is a slow, monotonous plod through suspiciously green water past overgrown shrubs and ratty looking trees with some fiberglass static animals and robot Indians jiggling around. It was dull as dishwater, although the instrumental music played over the loudspeakers was kind of relaxing in an supermarket Muzak sort of way.

If they can shave a few minutes off that trip, and replace the wall of overgrown shrubbery and a frozen fiberglass moose with new and far more active and engaging scenery, then that's a good thing.

What entertained audiences in the 1950's and 1960's doesn't necessarily entertain audiences in the 2020's and 2030's; TV, films, books, magazines, music. And Disneyland too.

If this from 1955 to 2015...

Is replaced by this from 2018 into the mid 21st century...

Then I think that will be a good thing. And I'm an old guy who still misses the 20th century most days.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Some Fantasylands can be impressive. Disneyland's is pretty darn good. The best part of NFL were the aesthetics. But there was little to no substance. No E-ticket. A cloned dark ride from DCA, a D-ticket coaster, interactive story-time, and a restaurant.

And people thought we were getting some sort of game-changing land...

Why would anyone expect an (E ticket) type ride in Fantasyland? The majority of it's audience are just as happy with something that goes around in circles. Yes, it is for the whole family, but, to clarify MK is for the whole family, not each land. There is something in MK for everyone INCLUDING children. WDW isn't just for adults either.

Spoiler

I always feel the need to repeat that there is no such thing as an "E Ticket" ride anymore. And even if there was, we, the guest, didn't assign that label when it did exist. A quality ride that people like now determines what is considered a draw. If anyone can look at the line at 7DMT and say that it doesn't fit that description is just letting their desires outweigh reality. With just a little thought it should be obvious that if "E" did still exist, Disney would be calling it an "E" because of the extra income it would generate.

 

[Goofyernmost]

They hyped it up to be that good.

Had they only delivered a tentpole attraction of the same calibre of say...Pooh's Hunny Hunt. Which proves essentially that kiddie rides can be amazing and appeal to everyone.

That always makes me laugh a little. What exactly do you expect a company to do that just spent millions of dollars to redo the area. Should they be running commercials that just say... 'Well, it's OK, not earthshaking, but, you will like it, we think.' It's known as promotion. It is still up to individuals to decide what they personally consider worthy of the hype. It's like saying that the use of the word "Magic" when related to WDW, is actual fact and not hype to a degree that is ridiculously incorrect.

Personally, I enjoy the hell out of 7DMT. I guess that makes me a 68 year old child. Anyone that thought that NFL was a Potter Swatter was not running on all cylinders. Not the mention the fact that Disney never claimed that it was. It was the over-reactive fan boards that set up that expectation. Why do we constantly think it necessary to attack Disney for our own inability to have reasonable expectations.

 

[wdisney9000]

What exactly do you expect a company to do that just spend millions of dollars to redo the area.

How many times did Disney remind everybody that this was the largest expansion in MK history? Even though they never called it "potter swatter", you can bet your bottom dollar they thought it would be enough to compete. And Beasts castle is the absolute worst execution of forced perspective I have ever seen. I dont even think it qualifies. Heres A comment from Staggs for the press release of NFL:

"We’re thrilled to take guests beyond the walls of Cinderella Castle to discover new worlds featuring iconic Disney characters and stories in ways that are more imaginative, more interactive and more immersive than ever before.” -

What exactly in NFL more "interactive and immersive" than ever before? The cardboard cutouts that parents hold up in Belles Cottage? The SECOND spinner for Dumbo? The CLONE of Litlle Mermaid? In your opinion, is it ok for them to make such claims without anything to back it up? Im not saying NFL is bad. But you cant honestly say that they did not severely over-hype it. You cant blaim its short comings on high fan expectations.

 

[spacemt354]

Why would anyone expect an (E ticket) type ride in Fantasyland? The majority of it's audience are just as happy with something that goes around in circles. Yes, it is for the whole family, but, to clarify MK is for the whole family, not each land. There is something in MK for everyone INCLUDING children. WDW isn't just for adults either.

Spoiler

I always feel the need to repeat that there is no such thing as an "E Ticket" ride anymore. And even if there was, we, the guest, didn't assign that label when it did exist. A quality ride that people like now determines what is considered a draw. If anyone can look at the line at 7DMT and say that it doesn't fit that description is just letting their desires outweigh reality. With just a little thought it should be obvious that if "E" did still exist, Disney would be calling it an "E" because of the extra income it would generate.

I don't know your view on Fantasyland is....but to me, no land is immune from providing a visceral and engaging ride experience.

No land should be just for kids, nor for just adults. If you target one audience you lose the other. You think Snow White's Scary Adventures or Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is for kids? Or 20K Under the Sea? Those were attractions for everyone to enjoy and that's what makes Disney great.

The problem with NFL was they focused too much on one category and forgot about the rest. While I'd like to see the detail in Enchanted Tales with Belle...I'm not going to sit through a kids show voluntarily...I'd rather it have been a dark ride.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

How many times did Disney remind everybody that this was the largest expansion in MK history? Even though they never called it "potter swatter", you can bet your bottom dollar they thought it would be enough to compete. And Beasts castle is the absolute worst execution of forced perspective I have ever seen. I dont even think it qualifies. Heres A comment from Staggs for the press release of NFL:

"We’re thrilled to take guests beyond the walls of Cinderella Castle to discover new worlds featuring iconic Disney characters and stories in ways that are more imaginative, more interactive and more immersive than ever before.” -

What exactly in NFL more "interactive and immersive" than ever before? The cardboard cutouts that parents hold up in Belles Cottage? The SECOND spinner for Dumbo? The CLONE of Litlle Mermaid? In your opinion, is it ok for them to make such claims without anything to back it up? Im not saying NFL is bad. But you cant honestly say that they did not severely over-hype it. You cant blaim its short comings on high fan expectations.

Beast's Castle isn't supposed to look "realistic".