The Spirited 11th Hour ...

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
I don't fully know what went down; just putting pieces of information together. But I don't get why people would think No. 2 is so hard to believe. I get that most people here don't work in or understand how the entertainment business works. But leveraging your knowledge of the intimate dealings of a troubled project is simply smart business.

And if TWDC truly wanted to make a splash with this news, which you would do if you were rewarding someone then you wouldn't bury it in the news cycle and you'd have quotes from Iger, Staggs and Chapek talking about how great Bob is and why he is getting that opportunity.

Oh, and there was no No. 3 because it was a decision, not a campaign or process.

Not just $DIS, but just about every big public corporation is big on making the CEO look godlike at all costs. I would speculate that he's got stuff that would make the Street make a frowny face at the Weatherman.

...or maybe something even bigger.... that could result in indictments....
 

indyumd

Well-Known Member
This reminds me of something about first impressions so it is time for a Spirited Parisian Aside:

Not sure how many here know it but Disney has been on a major rebuilding/renewing/rehabbing kick in Paris once it became clear that they would be able to wrest full control and ownership of Euro Disney, after years of largely letting it languish.

They have redone the mid-level Sequoia Lodge (where I just stayed for the second time in three years) and the budget Santa Fe. And they just completed work on the Newport Bay Club, which basically included a total residing of the buildings from wood (or rotten old wood) to a composite material better able to take the harsh climate.

The resort looks amazing. From the lovely yellow exterior to the brighter reds, blues and golds used in the halls and rooms to the concierge club that has taken the space of the resort's shop (yes, imagine a Disney resort that currently has NO shop at all ... don't worry as they are replacing the current lobby bar with one in the next 18 months, but for now not even a kiosk to sell you a Coke or a collectable pin!)

So, Spirit you ask (you did ask, right?) if things looked so great why do I sense a big BUT coming? Ah, because you know me better than I know myself, my friends.

The problem IS the first impression. Coming in from Lake Disney to the ground level (where the two restaurants have bee redone and look amazing, didn't eat at them because not enough time) you enter through the original 1992 wooden doors. I really, really hope that when the folks at TWDC who monitor me online read this, they send new DLP head Tom Wolber for a walk. The doors and the entrance are ghetto ... still ... like it is 2011 and the doors haven't ever been sanded down and repainted. That is your first impression to a pricey upscale Disney resort that has just come out of a massive two-year rebuild.

Then take a walk down the halls. So bright. So fresh. Even painting the ceilings a sky blue to help brighten what had been a dark and dingy place. Between it and the new carpeting and wall treatments, it looks phenomenal. Just don't look at a door if you are entering a guest room because, apparently, doors do not count in Paris. So brand new halls, brand new rooms ... but 1992-era white doors with gouges in them, uneven surfaces, marks ...they didn't even throw a new coat of white paint on them. They just redid the rooms and halls and pretended the doors didn't exist.

It's all about first impressions, and no matter how nice the new rooms are (and I have seen them, they are quite nice), what you see first would be ghetto doors. And don't even look at doors to CM only areas in the hotel ... they literally are rotting and have chunks of wood missing since 2001.

In my world, we call that a very half-arsed job. They did a 92% perfect job ... and then failed miserably to bring the project home.

Paging Tom Wolber to the thread!

This post is gut-wrenching. I was in Paris in November and headed for a couple nights at Newport Bay when I came out of the Metro on a Friday night in Place de Republique (after an AMAZING dinner) to the sights and sounds of police arriving to the scene of a terrorist attack. Instead of heading to DLP on Sunday, we headed home to DC on Saturday.

Desperately trying to get back, but when you have small kids, trans-atlantic vacations aren't the easiest to make happen.
 

ryguy

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the update on EuroDisney. Can't believe the door situation, what a load of crap. Glad to hear the resort is starting to turn around, definitely on my bucket list.

My question about the resort concerns security. Seems like of all the Disney parks the one in France would be the most vulnerable to a terrorist attack since France seems to be on front lines lately. Don't know how recent your trip was but did you notice a increase security presence while on your visit? Do you know if Disney execs are concerned about a possible attack at one of the parks?
 

WDWdream97

Well-Known Member
This reminds me of something about first impressions so it is time for a Spirited Parisian Aside:

Not sure how many here know it but Disney has been on a major rebuilding/renewing/rehabbing kick in Paris once it became clear that they would be able to wrest full control and ownership of Euro Disney, after years of largely letting it languish.

Does this mean that a placemaking/re-do of WDSP, a la DCA style, will begin taking shape?
 

dizneycrazy09

Well-Known Member
Late 2018 or early 2019.

BTW, those are the expedited dates ...

How can DHS languish for that much longer? I wish people would smarten up and refuse to accept the Launch Bay and new fireworks show as "new offerings". It's a poor excuse for a band aid. They can try to cover up the closures all they want by adding new meet and greets and cheap, quick-fixes, but the fact of the matter is that the park in its current state sucks, and IMO it is absolutely unacceptable that a land like TS would not be completed in a year tops. I wish the average guest was smart enough to realize this and say, "ya know what, we're gonna skip DHS this time because there really isn't a whole lot to do there, and I don't want to spend 100 dollars on shuttered, lost theme park." But we all know that won't happen because Anna and Else have a sing along!

Sigh...
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
WDI cannot be an organization that does things "faster and cheaper" by staffing up and staffing down and outsourcing a lot. The staff up/down thing means every time a big project needs gettin' going, there has to be an influx have newbies hired and time for them to be acclimated and trained. It takes forever for everyone to get up to speed, and even longer to build a cohesive team that works as a unit.

And the outsourcing thing...that only works for commodity products where lots of vendors can provide what you want. Disney is custom. There aren't any vendors who do what they want. So now they have to ask vendors to find ways to manufacture very specific products, in low volumes, and there has to be this prototyping period and all this time trying to coordinate with vendors and getting everybody to agree on contracts and etc, etc, etc. It takes forever and vendors charge an arm and a leg and an ear and a nose and anything else they can because it doesn't make sense to overhaul their operations so that they can manufacture exactly three beautiful mickey mouse figures.

"Faster and Cheaper" for this organization, has to be bringing stuff back in-house.
There are plenty of vendors and they already work with Walt Disney Imagineering and Universal Creative.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
WDI cannot be an organization that does things "faster and cheaper" by staffing up and staffing down and outsourcing a lot. The staff up/down thing means every time a big project needs gettin' going, there has to be an influx have newbies hired and time for them to be acclimated and trained. It takes forever for everyone to get up to speed, and even longer to build a cohesive team that works as a unit.

And the outsourcing thing...that only works for commodity products where lots of vendors can provide what you want. Disney is custom. There aren't any vendors who do what they want. So now they have to ask vendors to find ways to manufacture very specific products, in low volumes, and there has to be this prototyping period and all this time trying to coordinate with vendors and getting everybody to agree on contracts and etc, etc, etc. It takes forever and vendors charge an arm and a leg and an ear and a nose and anything else they can because it doesn't make sense to overhaul their operations so that they can manufacture exactly three beautiful mickey mouse figures.

"Faster and Cheaper" for this organization, has to be bringing stuff back in-house.
Exactly.

Change orders are a cancer to any project and a threat to job tenure.
 

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
I checked it on Google Maps, and it seems the walking distance people are complaining about is approximately the same as walking from the turnstiles to the castle and back, so it seems a sensible move to me.
Are you kidding me? "Approximately the same as walking from the turnstiles to the castle and back?"

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

I used to work at DL back in the seventies, and held an AP for almost two decades. Turnstiles to the hub and back is a cake walk compared to where this garage is being located.

If you've ever stayed at the Residence Inn off Clementine and walked to DL instead of waiting for the hotel shuttle, you'll know what I'm talking about. And anyone unlucky enough to end up parking in the southeast corner of this new garage will experience the Residence Inn Day-Long Hike™ for themselves.

Spirit is correct. Ditching the moving sidewalks is inexcusable. You might not need them on your way to the parks... but you'll certainly appreciate them when you leave! Heaven knows the ones at Uni have been a welcomed energy saver at the end of several exhausting but wonderful visits. :joyfull:
 

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
Hey, TSL can be quite a technical marvel. In Paris, they had giant Buzz wishing Guests a Happy New Year until January 7th in English, the next day he was back to his regular programming! If that isn't top of the line techie know how than I don't know what is!

Wow! That sounds amazing. At WDW you would normally have to be at a media only or upcharge event to have that kind of magic happen. I may need to book a flight to Paris sooner than I thought.

I have written this same post probably a few dozen times here. But it bears repeating. And it shows a fundamental problem with the culture of WDI and TWDC.

In the late 70s and early 80s, TINY Walt Disney Productions and WED built EPCOT Center (out of the swamps of Central FL), TDL on a landfill in an industrial wasteland on Tokyo Bay and a New (a really new, not like WDW) Fantasyland at DL, while the park was open and attracting millions of visitors at the same time. Oh, and both of the first two projects opened as complete experiences (yes, some attractions came online later, but the vast majority were done and not having them didn't harm the Guest experience). Also, WED was working on plans for expanded resorts at WDW and a larger Village complex and new lands for DL.

All. At. The. Same. Time.

The idea that in the 21st century the world's largest media and entertainment company needs the ridiculous time windows on things ranging from the SDMT to Pandora to Star Wars on both coasts to Shanghai Disneyland is insane. It doesn't. The culture needs to change and for the first time in the 21st century, it looks like it may well do so.

Oh, and before folks give The Weatherman (AKA Robert A. Iger) credit for this, please recall that the man was named Michael Eisner's replacement over a decade ago. He was supposed to be packing up his office by now. It was only his ego and the pay check that gives us over two more years with Bob. In other words, even if this is a great move, I have a hard time saying it is OK that he blew a decade with business as usual. Doesn't show much vision, does it?

It's amazing to sit back and think about what the mighty Mouse was able to do when they put forth an actual effort.

For me it comes down to two things: the will and the way.

The way to build "better, faster, quicker, cheaper" has always been there. I'd even argue that now, modern technology and building methods would allow even faster and cheaper results if it wasn't for just that one small little thing that has been...

The will.

Disney, especially in Orlando, has been unwilling to do much of anything in recent history with any drive, desire or passion.

Why this is so has never been clearer... there is no need to do anything differently in their eyes.

Using EPCOT as an example, the will was behind it because it was going to drive new guests and new money into the resort.

Sure, DHS 2.0 has the capability to do the same; but, the culture is different because the "will" just isn't there because DHS is still holding its own and isn't costing them any money. The same is true around the resort. Why bother rushing new expenditures when you've already got years of data supporting that you can do next to nothing and still gain in attendance all while slashing services to new lows.

When you've got a "captive/rabid" audience of fans that keep filling your resorts while you continually reacquaint them with a new (low) standard of Disney Magic... you can't really argue with the concept.

Of course, all of us here understand that you can't keep lowering the bar without it eventually having impact. The WDW brand has stumbled along to a point where it is what it is today. Unless you are imbibing on Charlie Sheen levels of Pixie Dust, we all can think of hits the WDW brand has taken.

I see some blue sky on the horizon in the form of the new management shakeup, the DHS windfall, the full moon over Pandora, and everything else they have in the pipeline; but, we won't know if the last two decades of malaise will have been completely washed away until we see what comes after all of this opens. More important to the long term health of WDW is going to be what happens AFTER SWL comes. If the mighty Mouse goes back to sleep after the Force Awakens in Orlando... we may be in far worse shape than when we started.

The momentum has to be sustained.
 
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ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
And those strides will only continue. Rumors I've read on Orlando United say Nintendo will be on the level of Harry Potter, but here's the real kicker: more of a focus on real sets and not 3D (I hope) :D

Yes UNI loves their screens but look at Gringotts for example where at WDW except for HoP are there as many AA's, Or the realism of the AA in the Muggle Money Exchange.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Wow! That sounds amazing. At WDW you would normally have to be at a media only or upcharge event to have that kind of magic happen. I may need to book a flight to Paris sooner than I thought.



It's amazing to sit back and think about what the mighty Mouse was able to do when they put for an actual effort.

For me it comes down to two things: the will and the way.

The way to build "better, faster, quicker, cheaper" has always been there. I'd even argue that now, modern technology and building methods would allow even faster and cheaper results if it wasn't for just that one small little thing that has been...

The will.

Disney, especially in Orlando, has been unwilling to do much of anything in recent history with any drive, desire or passion.

Why this is so has never been clearer... there is no need to do anything differently in their eyes.

Using EPCOT as an example, the will was behind it because it was going to drive new guests and new money into the resort.

Sure, DHS 2.0 has the capability to do the same; but, the culture is different because the "will" just isn't there because DHS is still holding its own and isn't costing them any money. The same is true around the resort. Why bother rushing new expenditures when you've already got years of data supporting that you can do next to nothing and still gain in attendance all while slashing services to new lows.

When you've got a "captive/rabid" audience of fans that keep filling your resorts while you continually reacquaint them with a new (low) standard of Disney Magic... you can't really argue with the concept.

Of course, all of us here understand that you can't keep lowering the bar without it eventually having impact. The WDW brand has stumbled along to a point where it is what it is today. Unless you are imbibing on Charlie Sheen levels of Pixie Dust, we all can think of hits the WDW brand has taken.

I see some blue sky on the horizon in the form of the new management shakeup, the DHS windfall, the full moon over Pandora, and everything else they have in the pipeline; but, we won't know if the last two decades of malaise will have been completely washed away until we see what comes after all of this opens. More important to the long term health of WDW is going to be what happens AFTER SWL comes. If the mighty Mouse goes back to sleep after the Force Awakens in Orlando... we may be in far worse shape than when we started.

The momentum has to be sustained.

^^^^ THIS TIMES a MILLION ^^^
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
That is a fascinating question ...moreso for reasons I can't place out here.

But one would think they'd learn something. They have some very smart people working for them. But much like WDI until last week, are not being led by the right individuals. UNI is succeeding more inspite of its leadership than because of it (beyond top management at Comcast ... Burke, Roberts and Co.) How Tom Williams is still there never ceases to amaze me.

One reason is Sometimes CEO's of otherwise bad organizations look at divisions making money and instead of putting their 'STAMP' on them are content to let them make money for the organization as a whole as NBCU P&R is and give them the resources needed to do so.
 

gorillaball

Well-Known Member
Capital investments are amortized, not costed out at the time of building. It doesn't matter when they build it, it is expensed over the estimated life time of the investment. If they actually spent every nickel in a week or over 4 years the expense is extended systematically over that individual life of each investment. In fact the quicker that they start to amortize it the better from a tax and cash flow standpoint. If it is amortized over 20 years then the total capital expenditure is expensed at the rate of 1/20th of the total each year for 20 years. The only reason for any delay would likely be cash flow. It seems like Disney shouldn't be having any cash flow problems especially if they are borrowing the money to do these projects.
.

Thanks for posting this! It drives me silly every time someone posts about spreading capex over a longer period makes a difference in earnings. Armchair accounting by non accountants
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Thanks for posting this! It drives me silly every time someone posts about spreading capex over a longer period makes a difference in earnings. Armchair accounting by non accountants

It depends largely on how the expenses are capitalized on a 'per item' or a per project basis. I submit a budget every quarter and I have to be extremely specific how items in my CAPITAL budget are categorized so they can be rolled up into the overall department and organization budget.
 

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