The Spirit Takes the Fifth ...

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Its single family homes that end up being rented out. Not OFFICIALLY an apartment, but treated as such. Monthly it ends up costing about as much as an apartment in the area, but with less amenities.

Right! That's what I'm seeing ALOT of here. I was wondering if it was on more of a national scale or not. My city is a huge college area and some entire neighborhoods have basically been converted into dorms. It's awful.

 

[doctornick]

I dunno. In my area, it seems that one person (who owns a "rental business") has bought up dozens of houses, converted each house into several apartments, and rents each out individually, thus earning 3x the amount of money per house than renting to one family. I know of a few who have done this who have horrible reputations for not maintaining said apartments/houses at all.

I can see this happening around Disney especially, with the amount of young people employed by the company. It doesn't make it right, to break up a house into smaller 'homes' and rent them at the cost of a mortgage of the entire house, but you got to live somewhere.

I guess.

Wouldn't the are have to be zoned to allow for multi-family dwellings? Otherwise, I would think it would be illegal to "break up" a single family home and rent the parts to multiple folks.

 

[ford91exploder]

I dunno. In my area, it seems that one person (who owns a "rental business") has bought up dozens of houses, converted each house into several apartments, and rents each out individually, thus earning 3x the amount of money per house than renting to one family. I know of a few who have done this who have horrible reputations for not maintaining said apartments/houses at all.

I can see this happening around Disney especially, with the amount of young people employed by the company. It doesn't make it right, to break up a house into smaller 'homes' and rent them at the cost of a mortgage of the entire house, but you got to live somewhere.

I guess.

We see that too - Building inspectors usually put an end to that stuff quickly up here since my state is heavily dependent upon property taxes and there are standards for multi-family housing and a separate HIGHER tax bracket for them so the Illegal apartment business usually ends in a perp walk courtesy of the taxman.

The ones I am speaking of are complexes which are purchased for cash and well run and cared for - but WHERE did the CASH come from to buy in first place.

 

[Cesar R M]

I think there's something to be said for housing across the US in general, but since this is a Disney board... yeah. I can see SoCal being incredibly overpriced for the amount of space you get. Ditto parts of Florida. But apparently people are interested and buying, otherwise the price points wouldn't be so high if nothing was selling, right?

It sucks for people in my age group (late 20s, early 30s) who can't afford to buy a house (or have a beat up credit score due to student loan/credit card debt) and have to rent but are basically paying the price of a mortgage. The cost of buying a house has become too great a burden.

I can't imagine dropping $500K for basically a smaller 'apartment' than the house I'm renting. But apparently there are enough people with "good enough" salaries who can. More power to yall. :\


Have you noticed whether the housing in your area is primarily single family homes or converted apartments?

Its not just the US imho,
the House Market thing is being mirrored in Mexico in all its touristic destinations.
Let's say most people can afford only houses of 400k (as in 38k USD) to 1 million pesos (95,000 USD).
but they are building nonstop houses of 1.5 Million(145k USD) or more, all trying to cater to the middle-high class or to foreings.
Problem is; almost every house build is of this price range.. forcing the people who want to live here to pay such ridiculous prices (ridiculous due of the quality and size of the houses)... they also buy every single available land to prevent people from building their own homes(or at least participate in price inflation).. aka they buy super cheap from poor farmers, resell for ridiculous price with a Mexican twist(aka pay a bribe to change the land from exclusive to farming to hotel-condos type)

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Wouldn't the are have to be zoned to allow for multi-family dwellings? Otherwise, I would think it would be illegal to "break up" a single family home and rent the parts to multiple folks.

You'd think so but I'm not really sure how many are 'on the books' and how many are skirting certain laws. There also is a fire code in place here that I know many, many buildings are not following. However, turning them in becomes a wild goose chase to locate who actually owns the building and where they are. I ran into this issue when I lived in a very densely packed neighborhood and the house next to mine (three stories) was converted into three apartments... with no emergency fire escapes or separate meters for utilities. That's usually a giveaway that it's not a 'legal' apartment building.

Cycling this back to Disney.... I'm honestly not too familiar with the regions surrounding the parks in California or Florida, but I can only imagine that they are priced high, taxed high, and can only be afforded by few, unless the above scenario of house flipping comes into play.

I am aware that people rent out their houses to vacationers in the area as well. I wonder where that falls on the tax laws ?

Its not just the US imho,
the House Market thing is being mirrored in Mexico in all its touristic destinations.
Let's say most people can afford only houses of 400k (as in 38k USD) to 1 million pesos (95,000 USD).
but they are building nonstop houses of 1.5 Million(145k USD) or more, all trying to cater to the middle-high class or to foreings.
Problem is; almost every house build is of this price range.. forcing the people who want to live here to pay such ridiculous prices (ridiculous due of the quality and size of the houses)... they also buy every single available land to prevent people from building their own homes(or at least participate in price inflation).. aka they buy super cheap from poor farmers, resell for ridiculous price with a Mexican twist(aka pay a bribe to change the land from exclusive to farming to hotel-condos type)

That is a huge problem and happens here often. Without getting into politics I think it has a lot to do with the income/wealth gap in both countries. The haves, and the have nots. Unfortunately more and more people are finding themselves in the latter group.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Someone can afford them, or else they wouldn't be built. The "someone" just isn't a 9 dollar an hour Jungle Cruise Skipper or Churro Salesman.

And 180K for a new house is a STEAL! Prices are triple that in Orange County, where Disneyland employs 25,000 people. There's a new shoebox condo development in Anaheim a mile north of Disneyland. It's a glorified apartment building. A one bedroom condo at 750 square feet starts "From the $400,000's". A two bedroom 900 square foot condo would be north of $500,000. Look at how glamorous a lifestyle it is too! http://brookfieldsocal.com/the-domain-in-anaheim/?gclid=CKazh-XV_7oCFWhxQgodgBsAOA

That's a pretty standard price range for SoCal a few years after the housing collapse. But not for those who plan on being a Jungle Cruise Skipper your whole life.

You miss the point, Disney & Universal's low pay drags the whole area's pay down. No one can afford these housing because everyone is underpaid.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

You miss the point, Disney & Universal's low pay drags the whole area's pay down. No one can afford these housing because everyone is underpaid.

This problem is nationwide. I think that's what the last 5+ posts were trying to point at.

I don't know how anyone is surviving on less than $12/hour with the current prices of utilities, housing, and the ever-increasing groceries.

Does Disney pay minimum or a hair above it? Do any positions within the company pay decent?

 

[TP2000]

You miss the point, Disney & Universal's low pay drags the whole area's pay down. No one can afford these housing because everyone is underpaid.

I would imagine Disney pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. But that's not exclusive to Disney; Target also pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. And that's at any Target far from Disney World.

As for 180K tract homes, your assertion that "no one" can afford them has to be false. Obviously someone can afford them, or they wouldn't be built. Like the 50K a year middle manager at any of the hundreds of hotels in Orlando. Or the 50K a year restaurant manager anywhere. Or the 50K Human Resources cubicle guy. Or really any of the white collar cubicle army inside TDO's various office buildings around Lake Buena Vista, Celebration and Kissimmee.

Can a Disney ride operator or fast food worker or shop clerk making a bit above minimum wage afford a 180K tract home? No, of course not. I don't know any entry-level low-skill fast food worker in the country could.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I would imagine Disney pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. But that's not exclusive to Disney; Target also pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. And that's at any Target far from Disney World.

As for 180K tract homes, your assertion that "no one" can afford them has to be false. Obviously someone can afford them, or they wouldn't be built. Like the 50K a year middle manager at any of the hundreds of hotels in Orlando. Or the 50K a year restaurant manager anywhere. Or the 50K Human Resources cubicle guy. Or really any of the white collar cubicle army inside TDO's various office buildings around Lake Buena Vista, Celebration and Kissimmee.

Can a Disney ride operator or fast food worker or shop clerk making a bit above minimum wage afford a 180K tract home? No, of course not. I don't know any entry-level low-skill fast food worker in the country could.

That's the point TP! Ride operators should get $50K/year!

Srsly though - Disney does underpay. They do it at DLR too, where the cost of living is exponentially higher, and I don't know how most CMs do it. A $180K tract home in Orange County is a flat out impossibility.

It's not like Disney couldn't afford to pay its hourly CMs are more decent wage than minimum or just above, they choose not to. Conversely, the people who work for them could choose to work elsewhere where there is more room for advancement.

Inflation has been insane over the past 20 years and shows no signs of stopping, but wages have not kept up the pace.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I would imagine Disney pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. But that's not exclusive to Disney; Target also pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. And that's at any Target far from Disney World.

As for 180K tract homes, your assertion that "no one" can afford them has to be false. Obviously someone can afford them, or they wouldn't be built. Like the 50K a year middle manager at any of the hundreds of hotels in Orlando. Or the 50K a year restaurant manager anywhere. Or the 50K Human Resources cubicle guy. Or really any of the white collar cubicle army inside TDO's various office buildings around Lake Buena Vista, Celebration and Kissimmee.

Can a Disney ride operator or fast food worker or shop clerk making a bit above minimum wage afford a 180K tract home? No, of course not. I don't know any entry-level low-skill fast food worker in the country could.

So many of those jobs actually exist in the Orlando area? That's my point. (You seem to be purposely missing my point…) Orlando does not have a lot of high-paying jobs. Instead, they're flooded with a whole plethora of low-paying, service industry jobs.

Rather representative of how the American economy is going. We get rid of decent paying jobs overseas and replace them with low-paying service industry jobs.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That's the point TP! Ride operators should get $50K/year!

Srsly though - Disney does underpay. They do it at DLR too, where the cost of living is exponentially higher, and I don't know how most CMs do it. A $180K tract home in Orange County is a flat out impossibility.

It's not like Disney couldn't afford to pay its hourly CMs are more decent wage than minimum or just above, they choose not to. Conversely, the people who work for them could choose to work elsewhere where there is more room for advancement.

Inflation has been insane over the past 20 years and shows no signs of stopping, but wages have not kept up the pace.

A cadre of decently paid, front line cast would improve service and quality.

Think of it as a sergeant in the Army…

Instead we keep going back to the famous Michael Eisner trained monkey quote

 

[Cesar R M]

So many of those jobs actually exist in the Orlando area? That's my point. (You seem to be purposely missing my point…) Orlando does not have a lot of high-paying jobs. Instead, they're flooded with a whole plethora of low-paying, service industry jobs.

Rather representative of how the American economy is going. We get rid of decent paying jobs overseas and replace them with low-paying service industry jobs.

welcome to the magical world of globalization, where the only ones who win are the super rich and mega corporations!
we suffered and still suffer the blunt of it since 1994 thanks to Salinas signing the NAFTA.
fun part? there isnt really a true "free trade" unless you have friends, contacts..etc..

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

A cadre of decently paid, front line cast would improve service and quality.

Think of it as a sergeant in the Army…

Instead we keep going back to the famous Michael Eisner trained monkey quote

I agree, a decently paid cast would be wonderful, especially considering how much slave labor Disney squeezes out of CPers and international CMs.

 

[donaldtoo]

I agree, a decently paid cast would be wonderful, especially considering how much slave labor Disney squeezes out of CPers and international CMs.

I worked at a Disney Store (among other retail jobs at the same time to make ends meet) for 4 years after I was the last employee layed off from an architectural firm I worked at for more than 20 yrs. in Jan. of '09.
At one point I was made a Lead Manager and given a pittance of a raise. A little after that the Store Mgr. asked if I would be interested in being promoted to an Asst. Store Mgr. position. As we discussed, the subject of compensation for such a promotion, of course, came up. If we weren't actually pretty good friends I woulda' laughed in her face at the number. It was a joke. It wasn't even as much as I was being payed starting out as just a plain ol' sales associate at a mens clothing store I was working for at the time.
Bottom line is, Disney knows they've got so many people out there by their MAGICAL short and curlies that they don't even have to go hunt prey to slave for them...the unsuspecting prey simply flock to them. It's all pretty twisted, actually.

Oh btw, and thankfully, I'm now back with my old firm.

 

[flynnibus]

180k doesn't even buy a 1br condo here... And I'm 40mins from downtown

I would imagine Disney pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. But that's not exclusive to Disney; Target also pays barely above minimum wage for their entry-level, low-skill jobs with no degree requirement. And that's at any Target far from Disney World.

Shush! These people should be able to afford a house and send their kids to college on jobs designed to be filled by anyone with no prior job skills required! These people should be allowed to work the same job doing the same exact thing.. forever.. and expect to get pay raises! </sarcasm>

If you do a job that you can be replaced by a kid off the street tomorrow.. you should be expect to be paid accordingly.

 

[PorterRedkey]

Yes, Cisco currently has a huge problem with 'third shift' products, Products which are genuine in every way except their production was not authorized by Cisco.

These have been showing up in increasing numbers in the legitimate supply chain and the customer usually only finds out when they attempt to have unit added to service contract and it turns out the serial # does not exist in Cisco's database.

Do they support the EIGRP or any of the other CISCO proprietary features?

 

[71jason]

As for 180K tract homes, your assertion that "no one" can afford them has to be false. Obviously someone can afford them, or they wouldn't be built. Like the 50K a year middle manager at any of the hundreds of hotels in Orlando. Or the 50K a year restaurant manager anywhere. Or the 50K Human Resources cubicle guy. Or really any of the white collar cubicle army inside TDO's various office buildings around Lake Buena Vista, Celebration and Kissimmee.

Can a Disney ride operator or fast food worker or shop clerk making a bit above minimum wage afford a 180K tract home? No, of course not. I don't know any entry-level low-skill fast food worker in the country could.

No, they build them anyway. That's why half of Celebration feels vacant (and why the schools are starting drop in quality--no middle class families to live there, so the school is filled with kids from the motels-turned-de facto homeless shelters along 192). I live in a neighborhood intended to be tourist rental homes--over half the houses sit empty. The one next door to me, in foreclosure at least 2 years now, has a dark brown swimming pool the bank didn't bother to drain.

Real estate developers are always convinced that they're the speshul snowflake, that there houses will bring in the money. They're generally wrong.

And it's not just the front-line guys who are underpaid--at least they can get overtime in the busy seasons. WDW managers are grossly underpaid. I know a resort-wide F&B manager barely clearing $40k. That drags down wages for the area.

 

[ford91exploder]

Do they support the EIGRP or any of the other CISCO proprietary features?

The counterfeit stuff is frequently made on the same production line that the REAL stuff is made, Usually by less than ethical subcontrators who are producing the gear for well known outfits like Foxconn, WNC, Sanmina, D-Link and Accton to name a few.

 

[PorterRedkey]

The counterfeit stuff is frequently made on the same production line that the REAL stuff is made, Usually by less than ethical subcontrators who are producing the gear for well known outfits like Foxconn, WNC, Sanmina, D-Link and Accton to name a few.

So the same tech, with phoney non-Cisco MAC addresses? Nut and bolts the same.

 

[ford91exploder]

So the same tech, with phoney non-Cisco MAC addresses? Nut and bolts the same.

Yep that about sums it up Cisco released a tool to scan your network for phoney gear, Optics, WIC's and low cost switches and routers were the primary targets of the counterfeiters.