The Spirit Takes the Fifth ...

[flynnibus]

I have a picture with John in my album, Have you been to Bldg 14?

Not my core area in SJ - but I don't go wandering around the campus.. just go where I need to. John comes to us

 

[ford91exploder]

Not my core area in SJ - but I don't go wandering around the campus.. just go where I need to. John comes to us

He did in my case as well but I am a customer, On the subject of Nexus 7K's I also have lost too much hair because of them! - Especially when someone on your team creates an orphaned port... And leaves you to figure out their mess.

 

[TP2000]

Shanghai is a major center of global banking and finance and Los Angeles is not - and I don't know anyone who would claim otherwise. This is the danger of Googling for a quick facts; they may only tell part of the story.

I would encourage you to dig a little deeper.

Also, bear in mind that income figures in China are deceptive and you can't really do an apples-to-apples comparison -- in part because of the false value of the yuan (it's kept artificially low to keep Chinese-made goods cheap, some would say unfairly so), and in part because many state-supported and state-subsidized services bring cost of living down dramatically.

Figures like Gross Domestic Product and Median Household Income are pretty standard ways of measuring modern human society and how it provides for its citizens. And certainly the Communists can goose their official numbers a bit. But the stats are the stats and tell a basic story.

Municipal Annual Gross Domestic Product
Greater Los Angeles - 831 Billion Dollars (ranked third globally, behind New York and Tokyo)
Greater Shanghai - 297 Billion Dollars

Median Household Income
Greater Los Angeles - $56,266
Greater Shanghai - $6,397 (official Communist Party stat, although Western sources claim it's closer to $4,600)

Shanghai is a fun town if you are staying at the Hyatt, and the best example of the progress Communist China has made for some of its citizens by adopting capitalist tendencies. But it's not a diversified economy; it's a massive container port and the financial gatekeeper for any outside company wanting to do business in China.

But the majority of Shanghai's citizens live in basic poverty, and it's a teeming urban center that carries with it all of the social baggage of living in 21st century China. It will be fascinating to watch how their new Disneyland on the edge of the city plays out in 2016, and what types of Chinese citizens pay it a visit.

 

[nytimez]

Shanghai is a fun town if you are staying at the Hyatt, and the best example of the progress Communist China has made for some of its citizens by adopting capitalist tendencies. But it's not a diversified economy; it's a massive container port and the financial gatekeeper for any outside company wanting to do business in China.

The global financial community disagrees with you.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Figures like Gross Domestic Product and Median Household Income are pretty standard ways of measuring modern human society and how it provides for its citizens. And certainly the Communists can goose their official numbers a bit. But the stats are the stats and tell a basic story.

Municipal Annual Gross Domestic Product
Greater Los Angeles - 831 Billion Dollars (ranked third globally, behind New York and Tokyo)
Greater Shanghai - 297 Billion Dollars

Median Household Income
Greater Los Angeles - $56,266
Greater Shanghai - $6,397 (official Communist Party stat, although Western sources claim it's closer to $4,600)

Shanghai is a fun town if you are staying at the Hyatt, and the best example of the progress Communist China has made for some of its citizens by adopting capitalist tendencies. But it's not a diversified economy; it's a massive container port and the financial gatekeeper for any outside company wanting to do business in China.

But the majority of Shanghai's citizens live in basic poverty, and it's a teeming urban center that carries with it all of the social baggage of living in 21st century China. It will be fascinating to watch how their new Disneyland on the edge of the city plays out in 2016, and what types of Chinese citizens pay it a visit.

I'm interested in seeing who visits and who repeatedly visits and where they are from.


Good research, btw. Thanks for posting it.

 

[TP2000]

The global financial community disagrees with you.

I don't disagree that Shanghai has many banks and is a huge financial center. If you are an American or European or Japanese company wanting to do business in China (and who doesn't nowadays?), you will have to go through a banker in Shanghai.

But statistically and realistically, it's not an affluent city and it's metro area economy is smaller than other global capitals like New York, Tokyo, London, LA, Paris, or even Chicago or San Francisco. And then there's the 15+ Million people in Shanghai living in grinding poverty. But it's easy to ignore them from the lobby bar of the Hyatt.

 

[TP2000]

I'm interested in seeing who visits and who repeatedly visits and where they are from.


Good research, btw. Thanks for posting it.

You're welcome. It will be interesting to see who goes to Shanghai Disneyland. The 2010 World's Fair in Shanghai had huge crowds, and I'm sure Disneyland will too. Although it was much cheaper to visit the World's Fair than it will be for Disneyland, so it will be a different demographic for Disneyland.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

You're welcome. It will be interesting to see who goes to Shanghai Disneyland. The 2010 World's Fair in Shanghai had huge crowds, and I'm sure Disneyland will too. Although it was much cheaper to visit the World's Fair than it will be for Disneyland, so it will be a different demographic for Disneyland.

I'm waiting for price points and how it compares to USD ...very much looking forward to a long form post from @ParentsOf4 on that

Any demographics from the world fair that you're aware of?

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I'm waiting for price points and how it compares to USD ...very much looking forward to a long form post from @ParentsOf4 on that

Any demographics from the world fair that you're aware of?

Well we can make an educated guess as to the ticket price.

Hong Kong Disneyland's one day adult ticket is HK$450, equivalent at this moment to US$58.05. A one day adult ticket to WDW's Magic Kingdom is US$95, DLR US$92, DLRP US$100.22 and TDR US$60.94.

TDR and HKDL are a steal (especially TDR!), while DLRP is committing highway robbery and still unable to make any money. Fascinating, huh?

 

[PhotoDave219]

So we're talking income figures about the middle class and Shanghai.... Gives me a few thoughts that are generally tangental but such is the nature of these forums.

Disney and NBC/Universal are the largest employers in this area, followed by health care. I do not get why both companies refuse to invest in their employees by paying them a fair wage...

This thought came from watching yet ANOTHER orange grove get bulldozed for more houses in the Orlando area. No one can afford what theyre charging. There arent enough salaries that pay enough for a $180k house. The average Disney employee cant afford that.

 

[TP2000]

This thought came from watching yet ANOTHER orange grove get bulldozed for more houses in the Orlando area. No one can afford what theyre charging. There arent enough salaries that pay enough for a $180k house. The average Disney employee cant afford that.

Someone can afford them, or else they wouldn't be built. The "someone" just isn't a 9 dollar an hour Jungle Cruise Skipper or Churro Salesman.

And 180K for a new house is a STEAL! Prices are triple that in Orange County, where Disneyland employs 25,000 people. There's a new shoebox condo development in Anaheim a mile north of Disneyland. It's a glorified apartment building. A one bedroom condo at 750 square feet starts "From the $400,000's". A two bedroom 900 square foot condo would be north of $500,000. Look at how glamorous a lifestyle it is too! http://brookfieldsocal.com/the-domain-in-anaheim/?gclid=CKazh-XV_7oCFWhxQgodgBsAOA

That's a pretty standard price range for SoCal a few years after the housing collapse. But not for those who plan on being a Jungle Cruise Skipper your whole life.

 

[asianway]

Well we can make an educated guess as to the ticket price.

Hong Kong Disneyland's one day adult ticket is HK$450, equivalent at this moment to US$58.05. A one day adult ticket to WDW's Magic Kingdom is US$95, DLR US$92, DLRP US$100.22 and TDR US$60.94.

TDR and HKDL are a steal (especially TDR!), while DLRP is committing highway robbery and still unable to make any money. Fascinating, huh?

Just note that the break even On a DLP AP is 3 days

 

[Bolna]

Well we can make an educated guess as to the ticket price.

Hong Kong Disneyland's one day adult ticket is HK$450, equivalent at this moment to US$58.05. A one day adult ticket to WDW's Magic Kingdom is US$95, DLR US$92, DLRP US$100.22 and TDR US$60.94.

TDR and HKDL are a steal (especially TDR!), while DLRP is committing highway robbery and still unable to make any money. Fascinating, huh?

I think you might have used the DLP park hopper ticket price instead of the one day one park ticket which is 64 €, this comes out as 86.78 US$ and that already includes tax.

Just note that the break even On a DLP AP is 3 days

It is actually 2 days. The cheapest AP, the Francillien is 119 € (161.36 US$). It comes with quite a lot blockout days and with a restriction that it cannot be used for park entry on the two days following the purchase date. But this can be circumvented by ordering the AP by mail and chosing a first day of validity before your actual trip

And in addition it has to be noted that a large number of visitors never buy a ticket: Nearly everyone staying at one of the DLP hotels will have a length of stay pass that comes automatically with the hotel stay (even though there are ways to circumvent that as well, but these are tricks that only the small minority of the people reading up on those tricks in internt forums will know).

And finally: Last year, when I planned a trip to Paris, Expedia was even offering me a free one-day ticket to DLP if I book a flight to Paris through them. Which I did not need as an AP holder - but as an AP holder I could have gotten a number of very cheap (I think it was 30 €) one day tickets for my friends...

DLP entrance prices are very intransparent... I would love to know what the average entrance price per head through the gates is that DLP actually gets.

 

[NowInc]

So we're talking income figures about the middle class and Shanghai.... Gives me a few thoughts that are generally tangental but such is the nature of these forums.

Disney and NBC/Universal are the largest employers in this area, followed by health care. I do not get why both companies refuse to invest in their employees by paying them a fair wage...

This thought came from watching yet ANOTHER orange grove get bulldozed for more houses in the Orlando area. No one can afford what theyre charging. There arent enough salaries that pay enough for a $180k house. The average Disney employee cant afford that.

If its anything like it is here in South Florida, they aren't building them for anyone "local" to afford, at least not to buy. A HUGE HUGE chunk of our housing market here (and why its currently a sellers market) is because of a vast increase of south americans buying up everything and renting them out. Its why I have been in the same apartment for going on 4 years now, its hard to find a reasonable place to buy that isn't getting a higher bid.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I think there's something to be said for housing across the US in general, but since this is a Disney board... yeah. I can see SoCal being incredibly overpriced for the amount of space you get. Ditto parts of Florida. But apparently people are interested and buying, otherwise the price points wouldn't be so high if nothing was selling, right?

It sucks for people in my age group (late 20s, early 30s) who can't afford to buy a house (or have a beat up credit score due to student loan/credit card debt) and have to rent but are basically paying the price of a mortgage. The cost of buying a house has become too great a burden.

I can't imagine dropping $500K for basically a smaller 'apartment' than the house I'm renting. But apparently there are enough people with "good enough" salaries who can. More power to yall. :\

If its anything like it is here in South Florida, they aren't building them for anyone "local" to afford, at least not to buy. A HUGE HUGE chunk of our housing market here (and why its currently a sellers market) is because of a vast increase of south americans buying up everything and renting them out. Its why I have been in the same apartment for going on 4 years now, its hard to find a reasonable place to buy that isn't getting a higher bid.

Have you noticed whether the housing in your area is primarily single family homes or converted apartments?

 

[katiekinzakat]

Someone can afford them, or else they wouldn't be built. The "someone" just isn't a 9 dollar an hour Jungle Cruise Skipper or Churro Salesman.

I wish I made 9 dollars an hour...

 

[ford91exploder]

If its anything like it is here in South Florida, they aren't building them for anyone "local" to afford, at least not to buy. A HUGE HUGE chunk of our housing market here (and why its currently a sellers market) is because of a vast increase of south americans buying up everything and renting them out. Its why I have been in the same apartment for going on 4 years now, its hard to find a reasonable place to buy that isn't getting a higher bid.

Just think Laundering illegal profits, In New England the Russians and Ukranians are doing the same thing there is no logical explanation for a Russian family to come in with apparently nothing and 6 months later buy an multimillion dollar apartment complex for cash.

 

[NowInc]

Have you noticed whether the housing in your area is primarily single family homes or converted apartments?

Its single family homes that end up being rented out. Not OFFICIALLY an apartment, but treated as such. Monthly it ends up costing about as much as an apartment in the area, but with less amenities.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Just think Laundering illegal profits, In New England the Russians and Ukranians are doing the same thing there is no logical explanation for a Russian family to come in with apparently nothing and 6 months later buy an multimillion dollar apartment complex for cash.

I dunno. In my area, it seems that one person (who owns a "rental business") has bought up dozens of houses, converted each house into several apartments, and rents each out individually, thus earning 3x the amount of money per house than renting to one family. I know of a few who have done this who have horrible reputations for not maintaining said apartments/houses at all.

I can see this happening around Disney especially, with the amount of young people employed by the company. It doesn't make it right, to break up a house into smaller 'homes' and rent them at the cost of a mortgage of the entire house, but you got to live somewhere.

I guess.

 

[NowInc]

Just think Laundering illegal profits, In New England the Russians and Ukranians are doing the same thing there is no logical explanation for a Russian family to come in with apparently nothing and 6 months later buy an multimillion dollar apartment complex for cash.

Add to that the fact that the housing market here was prime for cheap buying. TONS of foreclosures made it easy to get lots of property, cash...cheaply.