The New Fantasyland

[plutoismyhero]

When i was a youngster..i for one went to the parks everyday and never went to a play ground. We actually just went this past may with 3, 7, and 11 year olds(my nieces and nephews) and they spent 13 hours in the MK and they did not ever go to a playground personally i dont think they are necessary especially on prime real estate if the just in an empty unused space its fine...

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Not to worry unless you are waiting for the 20k lagoon to be "unburied" in that spot. :lol:

Wait... Are you saying bring back 20k isn't part of this plan????

<runs off to grab Iger voodoo doll>

 

[Studios Fan]

I know!! PeterPan is a nightmare with that fastpass, its always had long lines but always moved pretty steady until fastpass came along. Now you stand in the same spot forever. They really did a bad thing there.

Hopefully with this refurb they will do what Disneyland did and re-do the "boats" to help with capacity and hopefully get rid of FastPass on the attraction.

 

[Captain Chaos]

When i was a youngster..i for one went to the parks everyday and never went to a play ground. We actually just went this past may with 3, 7, and 11 year olds(my nieces and nephews) and they spent 13 hours in the MK and they did not ever go to a playground personally i dont think they are necessary especially on prime real estate if the just in an empty unused space its fine...

1. not everyone is like you.. There are kids that do get cranky... And there are kids that DO enjoy the play area, and there are parents who DO enjoy having their kids play around in these area... because YOU didn't do it when you were a kid, or even with kids on your latest trip, doesn't mean they are a waste of space.. Not everyone is the same..

2. The pooh play area takes up a tiny bit of that land... Not even a good excuse anymore... Especially if this FL makeover takes up the LARGE part of the unused land... The complaint is old and tiresome now.. 20K is gone.. Need to move on... The area is small in comparison to the entire area...

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Funny how the MK managed to scrape by without the magical playground to keep things from being too chaotic for so long before it was built.
I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with the playground if it wasn't taking up such prime real estate, wasn't so cheap and tacky looking and hadn't replaced a beautiful lagoon (even if it did have a dated attraction in it).
I just thank goodness that my five year old didn't want to stop and play in a playground. She took one look at it and said "Let's go ride Space Mountain again!" Hmm, on the other hand, I wish she had wanted to play on the playground, it might have saved my back! When we wanted to take things down a notch, we'd stop for a churro or some ice cream, have a seat somewhere and relax for a few minutes.

Great post.

 

[peter11435]

and yet the Disney parks were fine for 40 years without playgrounds. I think the first "playground" style things added to the parsk were the Imageworks and the Hony I shrunk the Kids movie set and those doubled as actual attractions not just for kids.

Actually Walt had "playground style things" at Disneyland back in the 1950's.

 

[yeti]

and yet the Disney parks were fine for 40 years without playgrounds. I think the first "playground" style things added to the parsk were the Imageworks and the Hony I shrunk the Kids movie set and those doubled as actual attractions not just for kids.

:zipit: You put in bold the one line I thought was the most arguable. :lol:

By Disney parks and 40 years, I'm guessing you're starting with DL. :shrug:
True, playgrounds really don't make the park any more or less successful, and true, chaotic may not be the best word. . But they do help, and help reduce the possibility of....chaos within individual families. I think of them as a fastpass to a kid's amusement. You don't wait in line, kids are amused, they're not being annoying towards their respective parents. Like I said before, win-win.

What I'm trying to say is, you're right, the park has been and is fine without it, but it doesn't really cause any harm to the area either, IMO. Sure, you could say the land could be better used, but it is a very small fraction of the lots of land they have available to expand FL into. They can bulldoze it, they can keep it. Doesn't matter to me.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think HIStK is any more targeted at adults than Pooh's Playful Spot is.

 

[The Conundrum]

:zipit: You put in bold the one line I thought was the most arguable. :lol:

By Disney parks and 40 years, I'm guessing you're starting with DL. :shrug:
True, playgrounds really don't make the park any more or less successful, and true, chaotic may not be the best word. . But they do help, and help reduce the possibility of....chaos within individual families. I think of them as a fastpass to a kid's amusement. You don't wait in line, kids are amused, they're not being annoying towards their respective parents. Like I said before, win-win.

What I'm trying to say is, you're right, the park has been and is fine without it, but it doesn't really cause any harm to the area either, IMO. Sure, you could say the land could be better used, but it is a very small fraction of the lots of land they have available to expand FL into. They can bulldoze it, they can keep it. Doesn't matter to me.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think HIStK is any more targeted at adults than Pooh's Playful Spot is.

My counterarguments to this would be:

-Attractions like the Skyway, Enchanted Tiki Room, Carousel of Progress, Hall of Presidents, Peoplemover, Monorail, and the Railroad were designed to give parents a rest while still being entertained (along with the kids). You didn't need playgrounds when all of these attractions were there and refreshed periodically.

-Why do the playgrounds have to be in the parks taking up valuable real estate. Why can't thy be built outside the park gates or at the hotels (where they belong). How can anyone justify and say the PSP is fine when a huge family eticket used to sit on the same spot. We lost a great ride and great capacity and Disney "makes up for it" by building a playground for ADD kids.

 

[peterpanic74]

The Pooh Playground only takes up a tiny section of the 20K plot. there's still PLENTY of space to be used for new attractions. The playground was NOT a replacement for 20K. :brick:

 

[The Conundrum]

The Pooh Playground only takes up a tiny section of the 20K plot. there's still PLENTY of space to be used for new attractions. The playground was NOT a replacement for 20K. :brick:

Then why did WDI even bother putting a homage to 20k in the playground as if it did replace it?

Hey I dont care as long as its bulldozed in the rumored redo of the land.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I know!! PeterPan is a nightmare with that fastpass, its always had long lines but always moved pretty steady until fastpass came along. Now you stand in the same spot forever. They really did a bad thing there. Same with Pooh and TestTrack.

The fastpass for Peter Pan isn't as bad as Toy Story Mania. If you were to put Peter Pan in any other park however the fast passes would be the first ones gone. For those that remember, Test Track's fast passes were gone by noon before Soarin' came into the park. Now that's pushed back for both by a few hours. The ability to ease the speed in which fastpasses are distributed comes from increased ride capacity, and increased fastpass rides in the park. If you look at the Magic Kingdom on an average attendance day, the high capacity rides (more specifically Splash and Thunder Mountain) will have return windows only 10-15 minutes past the actual wait time (example, if it's 2 in the afternoon, and the wait time is 45 minutes, the return window will be around 3:00-4:00).

The wider seats for Peter Pan would obviously help, but in reality it needs a second row of seats to see a significant change. If Little Mermaid has fastpass it will also help, although given the anticipated ride capacity, it probably won't help it that much. To compare it, look at the limited effect that Mission: Space had on Test Track's distribution. It really took a much more popular attraction like Soarin' (and one situated across future world) to help slow down the fast pass distribution by Test Track.

Comparatively, when you look at Toy Story Mania the fast passes are being distributed faster than they were at Test Track prior to Mission: Space or Soarin' arriving. With the presumed addition of the Monster's Inc Coaster, it will certainly help fray the Toy Story fast pass distribution times, but if the Monster's Inc Coaster doesn't have a high capacity than the difference may not be substantial enough.

I don't think simply eliminating fast pass from this low capacity rides is the answer either. The reality is that Disney has given many of us the expectation that lines are for suckers. Very rarely, if ever will I wait more than 30-40 minutes for any attraction. If a ride is generating waits of this length, and can't accommodate fastpass than the ride may be ill conceived from an operations stand point. The prime example of this is The Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage at Disneyland. By virtue of being a new attraction, Toy Story Mania falls into this category as well, and I don't feel that eliminating fast pass is the answer. In this case, additional attractions are needed to distribute guests elsewhere and ultimately lower the wait times for Toy Story Mania and the other attractions in the park. Many point to DCA's version that operates without fastpass however the attendance of that park is about 50% lower than that of Hollywood Studios, and that park is also receiving multiple major additions over the next few years that will help distribute guests away from Toy Story Mania. I would not be surprised if after Radiator Springs Racers and the Little Mermaid Ride open at DCA, that Toy Story Mania will receive a fast pass and it's usage will be far more reasonable than it is at Hollywood Studios.

 

[The Conundrum]

The fastpass for Peter Pan isn't as bad as Toy Story Mania. If you were to put Peter Pan in any other park however the fast passes would be the first ones gone. For those that remember, Test Track's fast passes were gone by noon before Soarin' came into the park. Now that's pushed back for both by a few hours. The ability to ease the speed in which fastpasses are distributed comes from increased ride capacity, and increased fastpass rides in the park. If you look at the Magic Kingdom on an average attendance day, the high capacity rides (more specifically Splash and Thunder Mountain) will have return windows only 10-15 minutes past the actual wait time (example, if it's 2 in the afternoon, and the wait time is 45 minutes, the return window will be around 3:00-4:00).

The wider seats for Peter Pan would obviously help, but in reality it needs a second row of seats to see a significant change. If Little Mermaid has fastpass it will also help, although given the anticipated ride capacity, it probably won't help it that much. To compare it, look at the limited effect that Mission: Space had on Test Track's distribution. It really took a much more popular attraction like Soarin' (and one situated across future world) to help slow down the fast pass distribution by Test Track.

Comparatively, when you look at Toy Story Mania the fast passes are being distributed faster than they were at Test Track prior to Mission: Space or Soarin' arriving. With the presumed addition of the Monster's Inc Coaster, it will certainly help fray the Toy Story fast pass distribution times, but if the Monster's Inc Coaster doesn't have a high capacity than the difference may not be substantial enough.

I don't think simply eliminating fast pass from this low capacity rides is the answer either. The reality is that Disney has given many of us the expectation that lines are for suckers. Very rarely, if ever will I wait more than 30-40 minutes for any attraction. If a ride is generating waits of this length, and can't accommodate fastpass than the ride may be ill conceived from an operations stand point. The prime example of this is The Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage at Disneyland. By virtue of being a new attraction, Toy Story Mania falls into this category as well, and I don't feel that eliminating fast pass is the answer. In this case, additional attractions are needed to distribute guests elsewhere and ultimately lower the wait times for Toy Story Mania and the other attractions in the park. Many point to DCA's version that operates without fastpass however the attendance of that park is about 50% lower than that of Hollywood Studios, and that park is also receiving multiple major additions over the next few years that will help distribute guests away from Toy Story Mania. I would not be surprised if after Radiator Springs Racers and the Little Mermaid Ride open at DCA, that Toy Story Mania will receive a fast pass and it's usage will be far more reasonable than it is at Hollywood Studios.

Does Toy Story mania use fastpass? I don't think the one in california does (neither does the Nemo Sub Voyage). I remember reading that some at imagineering as well as Lasseter weren't big fans of it (It actually creates bigger wait times and more frustrated guests).

 

[marsrunner]

Does Toy Story mania use fastpass? I don't think the one in california does (neither does the Nemo Sub Voyage). I remember reading that some at imagineering as well as Lasseter weren't big fans of it (It actually creates bigger wait times and more frustrated guests).

TSMM in WDW certainly does. Even in January on a slow day I was there at park opening and walked with the crowds to get one. I didn't run or shove or anything, but I got there as quickly as I could walk through the people. Got my fast pass about 15 minutes after park opening and the return time was for two o'clock in the afternoon. Just insane. Meanwhile ToT and RnRC never had waits above 13 and 5 minutes all day.
The one in DCA doesn't use them, nor does the Nemo Sub Voyage. That ride was another one with excruciating wait times.
Off topic, I love how ToT and Haunted Mansion never have a wait time less than 13 minutes posted. Cute and always gets a chuckle.

 

[flynnibus]

-Why do the playgrounds have to be in the parks taking up valuable real estate.

Show us one that is preventing something valuable from being built. You can't - because this arguement is just the typical whining about 20k when Pooh had nothing to do with 20k leaving.

Pooh did not displace 20k - nor did Pooh prevent the space from being used. Pooh has been a filler so they didn't have a big blank space along FL until something else comes along.

 

[Scar Junior]

Does Toy Story mania use fastpass? I don't think the one in california does (neither does the Nemo Sub Voyage). I remember reading that some at imagineering as well as Lasseter weren't big fans of it (It actually creates bigger wait times and more frustrated guests).

That's true...

Also, on my CP in 2003 our attraction rarely used FP while other FP attractions in the park were running them. Management told me it was because running FP significantly increased the operating budget. It made sense because of the additional frontline staff hours. Plus... often managers would need to be on hand at the distribution point as guests were always confused/frustrated with the FP process.

 

[marsrunner]

Show us one that is preventing something valuable from being built. You can't - because this arguement is just the typical whining about 20k when Pooh had nothing to do with 20k leaving.

Pooh did not displace 20k - nor did Pooh prevent the space from being used. Pooh has been a filler so they didn't have a big blank space along FL until something else comes along.

Isn't it nice to label any opinion that doesn't match your own as whining? I think they teach that in Debate 101.

Is it possible to dislike the playground because it is where something more dynamic used to be? I don't think anyone would be complaining (well, not as many anyway; someone will always complain) if they had put something more kinetic and fantastical there. Hopefully if Little Mermaid goes there it will fill that bill.

 

[brucie]

Without a Ye Olde Doughnut Shoppe it is an incomplete project.

Krispy Kreme, Dunkin Donuts, or Tim Hortons.

:slurp::slurp::slurp:

mmm Tim Hortons... Sorry Canadians can't get enough

 

[Scar Junior]

Isn't it nice to label any opinion that doesn't match your own as whining? I think they teach that in Debate 101.

Is it possible to dislike the playground because it is where something more dynamic used to be? I don't think anyone would be complaining (well, not as many anyway; someone will always complain) if they had put something more kinetic and fantastical there. Hopefully if Little Mermaid goes there it will fill that bill.

Yep.

And perhaps they could put a new playground tucked away in the Enchanted Forest (if they build it) or somewhere else in the expansion.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Wow, that looks . . . surprisingly legitimate. I don't know anything about the plans myself, but that plan looks a lot more . . . real . . . than I was expecting.


Anyone who knows anything want to weigh in?

Of particular interest to me, notice over by Mickey and Minnie's houses (or where they would be in correspondence to the illustration) that there's Dumbo A and Dumbo B, as well as a "Next-Gen Interactive Queue". Looks like the Toontown Train Station would be Dumbo themed as well, assuming any of this is real, which it may or may not be.

Very interesting none the less! Thanks for posting!

 

[nemofinder22]

Whoa!!!!!!! that looks amazing, and if it gets rid of most of the pathetic Toontown fair even better!!!

So that castle wall, is it kinda dividing FL in half with one part being more of the castle look and the other the Enchanted Forest? Wonder what a Cinderella attraction could be?

A huge thank you DLPMagic!!!!!