The Muppets Present… Great Moments in American History'

[Matt_Black]

Okay, let's not pretend the Liberty Square is for pure reverence and devotion to patriotism. Who here HASN'T goofed around in the stocks there for a fun picture?

 

[Donaldfan1934]

That show sucked. The gods were not pleased and nearly burned the place down!

Oh, how fitting of an ending that was. It played right into the show.

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

The Hall of Presidents uses AAs to recreate historical figures, and plenty of people watch them, despite the assertions of some here that it's a snooze-fest (they desperately need hand puppets to focus their attention, apparently). Bottom line, TDO wants to stick IPs anywhere and everywhere, whether they really fit in or not, and so some "genius" within thought this up because the Sam Eagle puppet is a prudish, uptight caricature of patriotism (but mostly jingoism), which TOTALLY fits Liberty Square. Yeah. Right. You bet.

Yes, you're right, the Hall of Presidents really brings in the crowds.

You do realize you're talking about Liberty Square at the Magic Kingdom, correct? This isn't a museum of American history. It is a land within a theme park that is themed to colonial America. Using a set of fictional characters to tell a story in a show within this land is absolutely acceptable. This is no different than if they used Mickey and the gang to do a show on early America.

I'm sure if you were in charge, to make the area more historically accurate you'd rip out the stone path down the middle of the street and replace it with actual sewage.

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

Every post you make on this subject, trying to convince people you're right? THIS is what I imagine....

No, you're wrong. I'm sure he doesn't actually have green skin, and I'm sure he's not typing on a typewriter, you're not being historically accurate.

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

I find it sad that the main defense here seems to be that learning about history is boring and that people could only possibly be inspired and educated if it involves characters.

Since apparently I was wrong and this is a perfect thematic fit for the area, I guess my main question now becomes... why is this necessary in the first place? Liberty Square has somehow survived 45 years without a Muppets show. Why suddenly now are they adding one? It all just feels odd and very random.

This show is arguably more thematically appropriate for the area than the haunted mansion. As I said before, Liberty square is not meant to be an American history museum. It's a land in a theme park meant to provide entertainment to guests in the theme of colonial America. I see no problem with using the thematically universal Muppets to be that source of entertainment, and as critical as we all like to be of Disney, I'm not ready to jump all over them for plussing an area of the park that is currently mainly a thoroughfare to get to other areas of the park. Hopefully this will encourage people to slow down as they pass through Liberty Square and appreciate the detail put into the area.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

This show is arguably more thematically appropriate for the area than the haunted mansion. As I said before, Liberty square is not meant to be an American history museum. It's a land in a theme park meant to provide entertainment to guests in the theme of colonial America. I see no problem with using the thematically universal Muppets to be that source of entertainment, and as critical as we all like to be of Disney, I'm not ready to jump all over them for plussing an area of the park that is currently mainly a thoroughfare to get to other areas of the park. Hopefully this will encourage people to slow down as they pass through Liberty Square and appreciate the detail put into the area.

I get it, the inside of the Haunted Mansion doesn't necessarily fit into Liberty Square. HOWEVER, as I've said I don't know how many times, the outside of the Haunted Mansion does not affect or detract from the theming of the land in any way, and that's the only part of the attraction that is visible from the area. This show certainly will, as it will only be seen from outside and will likely be very intrusive to one of the few quiet areas left in the park. Not to mention, again, the fact that Haunted Mansion is not really inside Liberty Square proper and is instead up the street and back in its own corner and is not really that visible from the main part of the land. I still find this Haunted Mansion justification weak.

I would probably dislike this idea less if it were being put inside somewhere where it wouldn't be intruding into Liberty Square. I just imagine it's going to be loud and cause bottlenecks in the area.

I guess the main thing I don't get is how we all hated this idea when it was just a rumor and how we all thought it was incredibly far fetched and unbelievable. That tells me that people understand that it doesn't fit. It's just weird to me that suddenly now that it's actually something that's happening, everybody is suddenly on board with it.

It's sad to me that Magic Kingdom is so starved for new entertainment and experiences that people are seemingly willing to accept anything that Disney is willing to throw their way.

If this were going into the top windows of American Adventure at Epcot, would everybody still be all for it? I just don't see how it's any different.

 

[Matt_Black]

I guess the main thing I don't get is how we all hated this idea when it was just a rumor and how we all thought it was incredibly far fetched and unbelievable. That tells me that people understand that it doesn't fit. It's just weird to me that suddenly now that it's actually something that's happening, everybody is suddenly on board with it.

Back then, most took the rumor as the Muppets would be INSIDE the Hall of Presidents, and I am in agreement with everyone else- THAT would be bad.

This, though? I don't see what the problem is. Why can't we have a little fun with history? Disney made an animated short film wherein all of Ben Franklin's big accomplishments that weren't sex-related (now THERE is something they won't teach you in school!) were attributed to a talking mouse.

 

[PhotoDave219]

No, you're wrong. I'm sure he doesn't actually have green skin, and I'm sure he's not typing on a typewriter, you're not being historically accurate.

No I'm willing to believe he's a lizard.

 

[Matt_Black]

No I'm willing to believe he's a lizard.

Maybe a Lizard-Man? Perhaps a Khaasta... (No, I don't expect anyone here to get the latter reference, and if you do, then you're one canny basher, and that's no dark!)

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

I get it, the inside of the Haunted Mansion doesn't necessarily fit into Liberty Square. HOWEVER, as I've said I don't know how many times, the outside of the Haunted Mansion does not affect or detract from the theming of the land in any way, and that's the only part of the attraction that is visible from the area. This show certainly will, as it will only be seen from outside and will likely be very intrusive to one of the few quiet areas left in the park. Not to mention, again, the fact that Haunted Mansion is not really inside Liberty Square proper and is instead up the street and back in its own corner and is not really that visible from the main part of the land. I still find this Haunted Mansion justification weak.

I would probably dislike this idea less if it were being put inside somewhere where it wouldn't be intruding into Liberty Square. I just imagine it's going to be loud and cause bottlenecks in the area.

I guess the main thing I don't get is how we all hated this idea when it was just a rumor and how we all thought it was incredibly far fetched and unbelievable. That tells me that people understand that it doesn't fit. It's just weird to me that suddenly now that it's actually something that's happening, everybody is suddenly on board with it.

It's sad to me that Magic Kingdom is so starved for new entertainment and experiences that people are seemingly willing to accept anything that Disney is willing to throw their way.

If this were going into the top windows of American Adventure at Epcot, would everybody still be all for it? I just don't see how it's any different.

I understand your sentiments. I too am concerned about how this will affect crowd flow and also wonder how intrusive it will be to someone passing through that doesn't care to watch. It's a unique venue for a show that hasn't been attempted before.

I also however am not concerned enough to think it's a bad idea to try the show out. I don't think the theming conflicts too much with Liberty Square. Perhaps if it's successful they will find some interior space to move it into.

 

[Mike S]

If worse comes to worse this could also be removed very easily unlike other things like Frozen and GotG in Epcot.

I don't think it'll come to that though.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Bottom line, the puerile, shallow tools at Disney who thought up this abysmal idea are going to put the Muppets in Liberty Square whether anyone here likes it or not. They're going to put GotG in Epcot. God know what they'll do next to cram purchased IPs into inappropriate locations in the parks. It's a sad thing to see. It sure would be nice to hear a rumor that gets me excited rather than think "Wha??? You gotta be kidding me! ***?" It's been such a long time since that happened...

Yes, that, more or less.

The Muppets are not the worst of Disney, but not the best either. If it hadn't been for DHS, where they have got an, admittedly, hysterical attraction, I would've forgotten about them already by the mid eighties. An average property to begin with, a bit stale by now too. I'd rather they stayed confined to their little corner of DHS. Apart from their staleness they feel an intrusive non-Disney property.

I also have mixed feelings about a character show in Liberty Square. It is, ultimately, not a complete clash of style, theme, atmosphere, and subject matter the way a superhero thrill ride in Future World is. But it doesn't fit in well in any of these aspects either, and in many ways detracts from them.

All of which could be forgiven as a single unfortunate decision, but it is the latest act in a complete overhaul of Disney's parks into 'IPs everywhere, all the time' worlds. To the great detriment of ghe parks. Liberty Square, on whose genius design this entire idea coasts, could never be conceived of by current Disney.

 

[DisneyRoy]

I get it, the inside of the Haunted Mansion doesn't necessarily fit into Liberty Square. HOWEVER, as I've said I don't know how many times, the outside of the Haunted Mansion does not affect or detract from the theming of the land in any way, and that's the only part of the attraction that is visible from the area. This show certainly will, as it will only be seen from outside and will likely be very intrusive to one of the few quiet areas left in the park. Not to mention, again, the fact that Haunted Mansion is not really inside Liberty Square proper and is instead up the street and back in its own corner and is not really that visible from the main part of the land. I still find this Haunted Mansion justification weak.

I would probably dislike this idea less if it were being put inside somewhere where it wouldn't be intruding into Liberty Square. I just imagine it's going to be loud and cause bottlenecks in the area.

I guess the main thing I don't get is how we all hated this idea when it was just a rumor and how we all thought it was incredibly far fetched and unbelievable. That tells me that people understand that it doesn't fit. It's just weird to me that suddenly now that it's actually something that's happening, everybody is suddenly on board with it.

It's sad to me that Magic Kingdom is so starved for new entertainment and experiences that people are seemingly willing to accept anything that Disney is willing to throw their way.

If this were going into the top windows of American Adventure at Epcot, would everybody still be all for it? I just don't see how it's any different.

It depends on where they put it. I think there are certain spots in Liberty Square where it won't be so intrusive. However that probably means that it won't be there. So there will probably be bottlenecks. More than there already are? Doubt it. But possibly.

And if it were going into the American Pavilion at Epcot I would enjoy that as well. Another good thematic fit! The Muppets can fit well into just about any location. Put some new costumes on them and they can fit anywhere and talk about anything. And I think this is a great idea. Some new entertainment that MK desperately needs.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Yes, that, more or less.

The Muppets are not the worst of Disney, but not the best either. If it hadn't been for DHS, where they have got an, admittedly, hysterical attraction, I would've forgotten about them already by the mid eighties. An average property to begin with, a bit stale by now too. I'd rather they stayed confined to their little corner of DHS, apart from their staleness they feel an intrusive non-Disney property too.

I also have mixed feelings anout a character show in Liberty Square. It is, ultimately, not a complete clash of style, theme, atmosphere, subject matter the way a superhero thrill ride in Future World is. But it doesn't fit in well any of these aspects either, and in many ways it detracts from them.

All of which could be forgiven as a single unfortunate decision, but it is the latest act in a complete overhaul of Disney's parks into 'IPs everywhere, all the time' worlds. To the great detriment of ghe parks. Liberty Square, on whose genius design this entire idea coasts, could never be conceived of by current Disney.

Yes! Virtually none of the best attractions, the classics, could be conceived by the current Disney. I'm beginning to think that an original idea for a non-IP-derived ride couldn't be conceived by the current Disney. All it can do is desecrate or slather something on what's already there. Now, admittedly, the Frozen makeover of Maelstrom was a pleasant surprise - the Imagineers didn't just make lemonade out of a lemon, they made frickin' champagne, as far as I'm concerned - but of course the location is ridiculous, the attraction has nothing to do with Norway, the ride set-up, like going backwards out of Elsa's palace, is still kinda weird and makes no sense. And it's frustrating to watch a video of that ride and imagine what could have been, if the dopey suits at Disney had allowed the Imagineers a chance to build a whole new Frozen attraction. Well, maybe they'll get their chance at Disneyland; we'll see.

The people who are excited by this Muppets addition to Liberty Square will never get what a farce it is, because to them Liberty Square is boring old American history junk that they passed through on their way to the Haunted Mansion, and maybe the only American history that ever stuck with them anyway didn't come out of a history book or a good historical film, but was performed by pieces of felt and foam rubber covering a man's sweaty hand. Every single person I have talked to about this addition has been horrified. Even a couple of friends of mine who still enjoy watching The Muppets Christmas Carol every year (it's like a family tradition). They like the Muppets but don't think they belong in Liberty Square. It's not the IP, in this case, it's where it's being presented, as you and others here have so eloquently stated. But we don't get a vote on this. The lowbrows are in charge at TDO.

 

[Andrew C]

The people who are excited by this Muppets addition to Liberty Square will never get what a farce it is, because to them Liberty Square is boring old American history junk that they passed through on their way to the Haunted Mansion, and maybe the only American history that ever stuck with them anyway didn't come out of a history book or a good historical film, but was performed by pieces of felt and foam rubber covering a man's sweaty

That is some smelly crap right there.

 

[Magenta Panther]

That is some smelly crap right there.

I have read that the actual Muppet puppets smell bad, because of sweat interacting with various kinds of fabric. So you're right!

 

[Andrew C]

I have read that the actual Muppet puppets smell bad, because of sweat interacting with various kinds of fabric. So you're right!

More crap. Deflection crap

 

[unkadug]

Well, I beg to differ. The Hall of Presidents presentation is intelligent, poignant and based on reality. It respects its subject matter and presents it with dignity. I have seen people in tears while they watch it. It does not spoon-feed its audience. It is moving and celebratory. Walt Disney meant it to be that way (it is, after all, an expansion on "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln"), and he had a deep respect for Abraham Lincoln. If some people find HoP boring, maybe they need to grow up a little. Maybe watching that show would help do that.

Bottom line, the puerile, shallow tools at Disney who thought up this abysmal idea are going to put the Muppets in Liberty Square whether anyone here likes it or not. They're going to put GotG in Epcot. God know what they'll do next to cram purchased IPs into inappropriate locations in the parks. It's a sad thing to see. It sure would be nice to hear a rumor that gets me excited rather than think "Wha??? You gotta be kidding me! ***?" It's been such a long time since that happened...

Purchased IP's??? This has been going on since day one at Disney Parks. It in NOT something new. With the exception of Mickey and the gang, almost ALL of Walt's creations were acquired IP's or unoriginal ideas that he twisted into his own stories.

If I have to make a list of these to prove my point, I will, but just think about the Fantasyland attractions at Disneyland.

 

[unkadug]

I have read that the actual Muppet puppets smell bad, because of sweat interacting with various kinds of fabric. So you're right!

Have you ever smelt the inside of a Mickey Mouse costume?

What's the point of bringing that up, except to continue your ongoing tirade against all things "Muppet".

 

[Magenta Panther]

More crap. Deflection crap

Of course the things smell. Like the walkaround suits you see in the parks. They REEK after a day in the trenches. I was close to one once after it got removed. What's so hard to believe about that?