The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[PiratesMansion]

Entertainment at DLR has always been seasonal or temporary. I have no problems with MSEP coming back every few years. But to purposely shelve the superior version of an attraction for the majority of the year is wrong. Especially when doing it the other way around would have the exact same effect.

And I'm 100% in agreement with all of this.

BUT

Do we have any proof that there's a clear audience preference for SOC over SOTW? To be sure, SOC is guaranteed to get good numbers if it's only around for a month or so purely because of its exclusivity. It is clearly the preference of people on boards like this one. But is it possible that in aggregate SOTW's numbers have stayed higher than SOC's were over its last year or so as a regular attraction?

We are in some ways a minority perspective on the parks. Lots of US hate HMH, for example, yet the line is routinely longer than it is for the normal Mansion. This might just be another example of that phenomenon in action.

With apologies if I sound like a corporate hack; I am mildly disgusted with myself that I'm making these arguments. But it's hard to know for sure what drives their decision making without the data they surely have available.

 

[mickEblu]

And I'm 100% in agreement with all of this.

BUT

Do we have any proof that there's a clear audience preference for SOC over SOTW? To be sure, SOC is guaranteed to get good numbers if it's only around for a month or so purely because of its exclusivity. It is clearly the preference of people on boards like this one. But is it possible that in aggregate SOTW's numbers have stayed higher than SOC's were over its last year or so as a regular attraction?

We are in some ways a minority perspective on the parks. Lots of US hate HMH, for example, yet the line is routinely longer than it is for the normal Mansion. This might just be another example of that phenomenon in action.

With apologies if I sound like a corporate hack; I am mildly disgusted with myself that I'm making these arguments. But it's hard to know for sure what drives their decision making without the data they surely have available.

Yeah I see what you re saying. I guess we don’t have hard proof but does that matter in the context of this conversation? I’m focused on their intentions. What do you believe their intention is with this decision?

I’m not sure HMH is a great example due to it being seasonal.

Haha no worries it’s creating conversation. You re just playing devils advocate. I think sometimes fans like those of us on this site don’t give ourselves enough credit. When you follow something closely enough, have 1/2 a brain and good intuition you have a pretty good sense on why things happen.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I’m focused on their intentions. What do you believe their intention is with this decision?

One of three:
1. Their data actually does tell them that guests prefer SOTW over SOC (assuming they didn't juice the polls with misleading statements).
2. The lines for SOTW have remained consistently high to the point where they feel comfortable staying with SOTW vs. SOC.
3. They are saving face and trying to pretend they didn't screw up with SOTW.

I think we can all agree on which one we believe to be true, but that may or may not be reality. Eventually any competent business would theoretically return to SOC if polls (and wait times) showed consistently that guests preferred the original version, but I suspect that more people than not are actually fine with SOTW and appreciate, to a degree, the predictability that comes with such an experience ("Oh, I bet we'll see the Eiffel Tower! Ooh, Harry, I was right! There it is!!!").

 

[mickEblu]

One of three:
1. Their data actually does tell them that guests prefer SOTW over SOC (assuming they didn't juice the polls with misleading statements).
2. The lines for SOTW have remained consistently high to the point where they feel comfortable staying with SOTW vs. SOC.
3. They are saving face and trying to pretend they didn't screw up with SOTW.

I think we can all agree on which one we believe to be true, but that may or may not be reality. Eventually any competent business would theoretically return to SOC if polls (and wait times) showed consistently that guests preferred the original version, but I suspect that more people than not are actually fine with SOTW and appreciate, to a degree, the predictability that comes with such an experience ("Oh, I bet we'll see the Eiffel Tower! Ooh, Harry, I was right! There it is!!!").

Haha I’m going with # 3.

Yeah you could be right. On paper seeing the wonders of the world is sexier.

 

[SuddenStorm]

At a seminar I went to at TDA back before Covid, someone asked why they have World over California, and the person who responded basically said it's to generate additional demand when needed.

Disney knows California is more popular and they use that to get people to actually go to DCA.

 

[mickEblu]

At a seminar I went to at TDA back before Covid, someone asked why they have World over California, and the person who responded basically said it's to generate additional demand when needed.

Disney knows California is more popular and they use that to get people to actually go to DCA.

Yup. Which I think is a borderline unethical thing to do with a theme park attraction. To purposely give your customer the inferior product the majority of the year. Or just wrong from an artistic standpoint.

 

[PiratesMansion]

At a seminar I went to at TDA back before Covid, someone asked why they have World over California, and the person who responded basically said it's to generate additional demand when needed.

Disney knows California is more popular and they use that to get people to actually go to DCA.

Imagine what they could do if only they built things that fit the park/area and didn't suck instead.

That just MIGHT get people to care about DCA.

Perhaps this is a conspiracy theory on my part, but I wonder if Chapek had anything to do with this. Forcing through unpopular decisions to meet business metrics very much was his MO, and Chapek was around and in charge of, at minimum, the parks for all of SOTW's tenure.

Yup. Which I think is a borderline unethical thing to do with a theme park attraction. To purposely give your customer the inferior product the majority of the year. Or just wrong from an artistic standpoint.

I mean, see also the withholding of night parades generally and PTN specifically.

That said, many modern business/politics/leaders/etc have a tendency to only be ethical when it suits them. It's not as if most people are particularly good at holding accountable businesses/people who do things they don't like.

 

[mickEblu]

Perhaps it’s still too soon to tell but it appears that the Snow White changes have moved the needle for that attraction. It went from being a 5-10 minute wait to a 30-35 minute wait. It’s interesting because it’s more or less just as scary as it’s predecessor. My son rides all the mountains but closes his eyes during the witch scenes. I think it’s more to do with the ride having more of an emotional impact now and less to do with it being less scary.

 

[mickEblu]

Can I book Genie+ return times for people at the park if I’m at home? Their tickets have already been scanned into my app. I was supposed to go play host with some family tmrw but I came down with the Covid.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Perhaps it’s still too soon to tell but it appears that the Snow White changes have moved the needle for that attraction. It went from being a 5-10 minute wait to a 30-35 minute wait. It’s interesting because it’s more or less just as scary as it’s predecessor.

It'll be interesting to see if/how long the popularity uptake sticks, but I could see it lasting. The changes were well done (IMO), there was a fair amount of touching up, and it better matches what most people would expect when they hear of a Snow White attraction. They did a nice job with the changes. Now they just need to give Pinocchio some updates.

I don't know if I'd agree that new Snow White is just as scary though. Perhaps for young children that would be true, but the 'scary' portion is condensed now vs. what it used to be. It feels like that portion is like 10 seconds long once you get past the cauldron. The happy ending portion all came from repurposing formerly scary bits of the ride.

Not sure about your question, but sorry to hear you're dealing with covid again. Hope you feel better soon.

 

[mickEblu]

It'll be interesting to see if/how long the popularity uptake sticks, but I could see it lasting. The changes were well done (IMO), there was a fair amount of touching up, and it better matches what most people would expect when they hear of a Snow White attraction. They did a nice job with the changes. Now they just need to give Pinocchio some updates.

I don't know if I'd agree that new Snow White is just as scary though. Perhaps for young children that would be true, but the 'scary' portion is condensed now vs. what it used to be. It feels like that portion is like 10 seconds long once you get past the cauldron. The happy ending portion all came from repurposing formerly scary bits of the ride.

Not sure about your question, but sorry to hear you're dealing with covid again. Hope you feel better soon.

Thanks!! Last couple days have been rough!

Right. I guess I didn’t word my post very well. It’s definitely less scary if we’re going by quantity of scary imagery. My point was if a kid was scared before they re still scared of it now. Which is why I think it’s popularity is more due to the pay off you get at the end. So in actuality adults are driving the attendance spike. A kid is not going to think “ok the beginning still scares the crap out of me but it’s ok, the ending makes it all worth it.”

If I’m not mistaken, the Forest wasn’t nearly as scary for kids as the Witch scenes in the beginning. So the scariest scenes stuck around even if their are fewer of them.

 

[mickEblu]

Go to Disneyland all the time and never get Covid. Go to Universal Studios Hollywood once…

For some reason I felt it and was more aware of my personal space there than I am at Disneyland. Especially in that Simpsons queue and pre load. Not to mention the interior queue for Three Broomsticks which I stood in for about 45 minutes. I really have to branch out and stop ordering the bangers and mash. It’s fine but it’s not that good.

Anybody have decent food recommends for Universal? I’ve only eaten at Three Broomsticks and Jurassic Cafe. And that terrible Panda Express a couple times a very long time ago. I noticed on this last trip that there are more eateries than I thought. I also discovered that Parisian Courtyard for the first time. The problem with USH is that I can just get Ohana - Hawaiian BBQ on the way home. If you haven’t had it you gotta go. Dark meat BBQ chicken with double green salad and 16oz Mac salad on the side is the move. Although the white meat chicken makes for better left overs since it’s not as fatty. Chicken fat just doesn’t work on a reheat. They even get the steamed rice right. Not mushy. It’s like perfectly cooked steamed rice you’d get at a good Japanese restaurant.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Thanks!! Last couple days have been rough!

Right. I guess I didn’t word my post very well. It’s definitely less scary if we’re going by quantity of scary imagery. My point was if a kid was scared before they re still scared of it now. Which is why I think it’s popularity is more due to the pay off you get at the end. So in actuality adults are driving the attendance spike. A kid is not going to think “ok the beginning still scares the crap out of me but it’s ok, the ending makes it all worth it.”

If I’m not mistaken, the Forest wasn’t nearly as scary for kids as the Witch scenes in the beginning. So the scariest scenes stuck around even if their are fewer of them.

Fair enough. I don't have children, so I'm unlikely to be a good judge of what does and does not scare kids, haha. It's probably true that the transformation is the scariest part for most, and that part was left untouched because it's iconic. I think the ending is more satisfying now, which translates to a more satisfying overall experience. The old ending was bad design that was basically admitted by Baxter and others (all the variations on "If we had space, we'd have put an ending there...", etc); this, in turn, should help the ride's longevity IMO.

Go to Disneyland all the time and never get Covid. Go to Universal Studios Hollywood once…

For some reason I felt it and was more aware of my personal space there than I am at Disneyland. Especially in that Simpsons queue and pre load. Not to mention the interior queue for Three Broomsticks which I stood in for about 45 minutes.

It's underreported, but I was struck this summer by how narrow USH's midways are and how little room there is to move when that place is busy (and it was SLAMMED the day I was there). I think it's easy to focus just on DL and its crowd flow issues on boards like these, but really it's just as true at USH and Knott's. There just aren't a lot of places for the crowds to go.

Simpsons' queue might just be the worst one in any of the parks (though the queues for the two newest coasters at Magic Mountain are both contenders).

 

[mickEblu]

Fair enough. I don't have children, so I'm unlikely to be a good judge of what does and does not scare kids, haha. It's probably true that the transformation is the scariest part for most, and that part was left untouched because it's iconic. I think the ending is more satisfying now, which translates to a more satisfying overall experience. The old ending was bad design that was basically admitted by Baxter and others (all the variations on "If we had space, we'd have put an ending there...", etc); this, in turn, should help the ride's longevity IMO.

It's underreported, but I was struck this summer by how narrow USH's midways are and how little room there is to move when that place is busy (and it was SLAMMED the day I was there). I think it's easy to focus just on DL and its crowd flow issues on boards like these, but really it's just as true at USH and Knott's. There just aren't a lot of places for the crowds to go.

Simpsons' queue might just be the worst one in any of the parks (though the queues for the two newest coasters at Magic Mountain are both contenders).

Yeah I think part of me being more aware of it at USH is due to the lack of open spaces. At DL you could walk through Town Square in the afternoon and find it empty or walk through Galaxies Edge which is pretty spacious. I don’t really feel that at USH so you never really have that variation to break up the claustrophobic feeling.

 

[waltography]

Perhaps it’s still too soon to tell but it appears that the Snow White changes have moved the needle for that attraction. It went from being a 5-10 minute wait to a 30-35 minute wait. It’s interesting because it’s more or less just as scary as it’s predecessor. My son rides all the mountains but closes his eyes during the witch scenes. I think it’s more to do with the ride having more of an emotional impact now and less to do with it being less scary.

I noticed the same! It went from being the least popular to often the second/third most popular FL dark ride on any given day (Alice being the other second/third). I also think the fact that they explicitly marketed the ride as being less scary and they ended on a lighter note shifted the perception quite a bit from the original. (Also feel better soon!)

Go to Disneyland all the time and never get Covid. Go to Universal Studios Hollywood once…

For some reason I felt it and was more aware of my personal space there than I am at Disneyland. Especially in that Simpsons queue and pre load. Not to mention the interior queue for Three Broomsticks which I stood in for about 45 minutes. I really have to branch out and stop ordering the bangers and mash. It’s fine but it’s not that good.

I'm steeling myself for the mess that Super Nintendo World is bound to be next year; I haven't been to USH since before the pandemic, but even then I remember how tight it could get around the lower lot in particular. I know Disneyland has its squeeze points, but USH is an urban planner's nightmare.

 

[mickEblu]

I noticed the same! It went from being the least popular to often the second/third most popular FL dark ride on any given day (Alice being the other second/third). I also think the fact that they explicitly marketed the ride as being less scary and they ended on a lighter note shifted the perception quite a bit from the original. (Also feel better soon!)


I'm steeling myself for the mess that Super Nintendo World is bound to be next year; I haven't been to USH since before the pandemic, but even then I remember how tight it could get around the lower lot in particular. I know Disneyland has its squeeze points, but USH is an urban planner's nightmare.

Thanks!

Yeah it doesn’t look like Super Nintendo World is any better. That lane looks tiny and cramped. At least it adds more park capacity. Although it’ll probably attraction more people than the land and park can accommodate comfortably. Or the Mario Kart ride sucks and people will get over it. Lol

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Go to Disneyland all the time and never get Covid. Go to Universal Studios Hollywood once…

For some reason I felt it and was more aware of my personal space there than I am at Disneyland. Especially in that Simpsons queue and pre load. Not to mention the interior queue for Three Broomsticks which I stood in for about 45 minutes. I really have to branch out and stop ordering the bangers and mash. It’s fine but it’s not that good.

Anybody have decent food recommends for Universal? I’ve only eaten at Three Broomsticks and Jurassic Cafe. And that terrible Panda Express a couple times a very long time ago. I noticed on this last trip that there are more eateries than I thought. I also discovered that Parisian Courtyard for the first time. The problem with USH is that I can just get Ohana - Hawaiian BBQ on the way home. If you haven’t had it you gotta go. Dark meat BBQ chicken with double green salad and 16oz Mac salad on the side is the move. Although the white meat chicken makes for better left overs since it’s not as fatty. Chicken fat just doesn’t work on a reheat. They even get the steamed rice right. Not mushy. It’s like perfectly cooked steamed rice you’d get at a good Japanese restaurant.

The best food at USH is in CityWalk, Antojitos and soon Toothsome. In the park, the chicken nachos at Minion Cafe are pretty good, the waffle chicken sandwich at Cletus is great, and Panda Express downstairs is a reliable artery-clogger.

 

[mickEblu]

The best food at USH is in CityWalk, Antojitos and soon Toothsome. In the park, the chicken nachos at Minion Cafe are pretty good, the waffle chicken sandwich at Cletus is great, and Panda Express downstairs is a reliable artery-clogger.

Antojitos! I still remember when it was called Camachos. Some good times over there.

Maybe the Panda is better now. When I tried it years ago I remember thinking it tasted like a knock off Panda Express. And I do love me some Panda Express from time to time. The need to bring the crispy almond chicken back asap!

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Antojitos! I still remember when it was called Camachos. Some good times over there.

Maybe the Panda is better now. When I tried it years ago I remember thinking it tasted like a knock off Panda Express. And I do love me some Panda Express from time to time. The need to bring the crispy almond chicken back asap!

Look, Panda Express isn't good. And the menu is more limited than a "real" one. But sometimes you just want to eat 4,000 calories of Orange Chicken in one sitting and like, there it is.

Hopefully we get the super adorable menu for Toad's cafe in SNW that USJ has. USH needs better in-park food options!

 

[mickEblu]

Look, Panda Express isn't good. And the menu is more limited than a "real" one. But sometimes you just want to eat 4,000 calories of Orange Chicken in one sitting and like, there it is.

Hopefully we get the super adorable menu for Toad's cafe in SNW that USJ has. USH needs better in-park food options!

Oh no no no, Panda Express is good! Just not the one over there haha. But I’ll take their sub par Orange Chicken over the bangers and mash I keep ordering at 3 Broomsticks for whatever reason.

I hope so. My son is looking forward to that restaurant as much as the ride. Hopefully they don’t dumb down the menu and yes USH definitely does. I was just wondering if I was missing anything decent on the upper lot where it seems the majority of eateries are.