The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[Californian Elitist]

It really is a shame that what was the most appropriate metaphor of WDW’s paltry 50th celebration - kites face planting into the water and crashing into the audience - is fading away prematurely.

But in all seriousness: it was the only thing of interest I genuinely wanted to fly to Florida to see.

The way I cackled at the first part of this post…

You ain’t lyin’. It’s super unfortunate because, clearly, WDW has a lot of passionate fans that care about the place, and they decided to give them the most lackluster anniversary celebration. I only went to MK for a few hours, but I felt no sense of a celebration anywhere. It was weird. And yeah, KiteTails was literally the only thing about their 50th that intrigued me.

D’Amaro said Disneyland will be the main focal point of the company’s 100th anniversary. On one hand, I want them to give us some at least good things to experience. On the other hand, I don’t care as much because this isn’t a Disneyland anniversary celebration.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

The way I cackled at the first part of this post…

You ain’t lyin’. It’s super unfortunate because, clearly, WDW has a lot of passionate fans that care about the place, and they decided to give them the most lackluster anniversary celebration. I only went to MK for a few hours, but I felt no sense of a celebration anywhere. It was weird. And yeah, KiteTails was literally the only thing about their 50th that intrigued me.

D’Amaro said Disneyland will be the main focal point of the company’s 100th anniversary. On one hand, I want them to give us some at least good things to experience. On the other hand, I don’t care as much because this isn’t a Disneyland anniversary celebration.

I still find the whole celebration very perplexing. Down to even the last-ditch addition of Walt and Roy to the fireworks which while an improvement was so late that it didn’t even make sense to do it.

I do feel bad for WDW fans when you think about the actual storied yet in some ways bittersweet history of the resort. It was a place of Walt’s dreams (even if not fully realized) and that his brother ultimately gave his life for to see through there’s so much history there. And the resort overall is such a moneymaker for the Parks and Resorts division and the company I don’t get why budgets are being either slashed or purposely stretched over so many fiscal quarters.

Comparing the resorts - I have to think TDO leadership has some role here, too, in terms of implementation of some of these changes. It’s true DL is definitely not run as well as it used to be but it’s beyond embarrassing how long projects like Moana Journey of Water and Tron have taken, too. Even simple projects like repaving Main Street are taking several months.

 

[waltography]

Comparing the resorts - I have to think TDO leadership has some role here, too, in terms of implementation of some of these changes. It’s true DL is definitely not run as well as it used to be but it’s beyond embarrassing how long projects like Moana Journey of Water and Tron have taken, too. Even simple projects like repaving Main Street are taking several months.

Agree with this point especially. I noticed this when I saw that SWGE was specifically designed to hug the contours of DL and not DHS, when we got MMRR and the designers found it as an opportunity to add a new scene + new animation (allegedly), and strangely enough even the San Fransokyo overlay we're expecting to receive for really no apparent reason.

There's a strange level of apathy thrown to WDW that DLR doesn't seem to have (as much of anyway, you can feel it creeping in though). And I can't tell if it's due to DLR being smaller that additions feel larger in scope compared to the entirety of WDW or if it's because WDW is such a moneymaker that they don't feel the need to plus what they offer ("it makes money regardless so why bother?"). Or perhaps some folks high up still believe they have some duty of care to the original park as the heart of the company or whatever, I don't know.

 

[eddie104]

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Agree with this point especially. I noticed this when I saw that SWGE was specifically designed to hug the contours of DL and not DHS, when we got MMRR and the designers found it as an opportunity to add a new scene + new animation (allegedly), and strangely enough even the San Fransokyo overlay we're expecting to receive for really no apparent reason.

There's a strange level of apathy thrown to WDW that DLR doesn't seem to have (as much of anyway, you can feel it creeping in though). And I can't tell if it's due to DLR being smaller that additions feel larger in scope compared to the entirety of WDW or if it's because WDW is such a moneymaker that they don't feel the need to plus what they offer ("it makes money regardless so why bother?"). Or perhaps some folks high up still believe they have some duty of care to the original park as the heart of the company or whatever, I don't know.

If I were to guess/speculate I think this may have to do with the “attendance mix” for each resort. TDA realizes their population is comprised of locals and “lifers” who grew up with the park and are more mindful of removing attractions unless the audience doesn’t exist. Which is why TDA and WDI takes extensive effort to “save” RoA and the thematic integrity of the area when adding GE whereas they have no concern bulldozing a sizable portion of DHS. Same rule applies for GMR>MMRR. The one exception here are AA shows and 3D theater shows that get stale after multiple visits and have been ripe for expansion.

Additionally because many DL visitors are keyholders or multi day/year visitors in the local area “unfavorable mixes”, I suspect TWDC sees expansion of the existing park as a necessity to help spread crowd distribution despite not having a “benefit of size” as guests will come for new rides but also want to see the classic park restored to what they grew up with but since WDW is primarily tourist destination with many once-in-lifetime or once-in-decade visitors the company actually has no incentive to expand the in-park capacity. Tourists are already spending inordinate sums of $$ to be there so keeping attraction capacity in each park (and overall) fixed won’t matter since controlled scarcity means you can monetize and raise the price on those tourists.

Genie+ incentivizes a scarcity model in this way. New ride has a 2+ hour wait? Many locals in CA will just wait til their next visit to ride and won’t buy a $100 Genie+ Lightning Lane when they can come back next week.

 

[Californian Elitist]

There's a strange level of apathy thrown to WDW that DLR doesn't seem to have (as much of anyway, you can feel it creeping in though). And I can't tell if it's due to DLR being smaller that additions feel larger in scope compared to the entirety of WDW or if it's because WDW is such a moneymaker that they don't feel the need to plus what they offer ("it makes money regardless so why bother?"). Or perhaps some folks high up still believe they have some duty of care to the original park as the heart of the company or whatever, I don't know.

TDO is cheap. They take pride in not spending money, at least they did in 2011, when I overheard an upper-level WDW/TDO person literally make fun of how much money is spent for Disneyland. I do also think the difference in treatment has to do with the different purposes and audiences of the respective resorts. As you said, WDW is the money-making, mega resort, while the DLR is the much smaller original with the adored history and a bunch of legacy fans. I 100% buy the theory (arguably a fact, since I overheard someone admit to it years ago) that TDO questions why they should spend extra money when people will come anyway. The thing is, whether TDA pluses or gives us extra things or not, people will still flood the gates here, too. So, why does TDA do it? Maybe it’s simply because they want to and care enough, even if it’s just a little bit. It could also be because DL is the original, which has benefited the park in many ways. I don’t know the exact answer. However, I will say that WDW fans buying into the absolute BS excuse that WDW can’t change things/add things because it’s constantly getting new guests for their “once-in-a-lifetime” trips, and somehow they must constantly freshen up the DLR because it’s a “locals park” probably doesn’t help.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Currently reminiscing on my visit to Efteling this past summer, and I can't stress just how much it reminded me of something akin to classic Epcot Center. As someone who never got to experience Epcot in its heyday, it truly felt as if I were experiencing something on a similar level. Almost every attraction was a hit, and the whole park is filled with tons of AAs. Getting to have that experience was like no other, and it's great to see the park taking care of its attractions and keeping things fresh while remaining true to its theme and intent. I look forward to hopefully visiting again someday, and hopefully I'll get the opportunity to stay on property at their new hotel that is under construction atm.

 

[Phroobar]

Give a man a fish and he will be like "Gross! Get that fish away from me!"
Teach a man to fish and he will be like "You again? What's your deal?"

 

[Californian Elitist]

If you compare the size of operations at both resorts you clearly see which one has more expenses. It’s much easier to spend money when you only have to spread it around one compact area.

Also both TDO and TDA have both displayed various ways they save money and cut costs.

This conversation is always so weird to me when it’s brought up because posters make a lot of baseless assumptions about WDW fans.

We said WDW fans deserved better than what they got for the 50th. If you feel WDW fans got exactly what they deserved, please feel free to share.

I said WDW fans believe that nonsense excuse about why the resort can’t get as many updates or new things, and that’s actually true. Not all, of course, but many do believe that.

What other baseless assumptions are there?

 

[tcool123]

I’m honestly disappointed that I’ll never get to see KiteTails in person over at AK. It’s ending in a few weeks.

Saw it today, its heavily downgraded from its peak when its debuted. I still find it charming.

Speaking of charming looks like Festival of the Lion King, back its Cirque adjacent glory, has some of that Bayou Light they talked about at D23, its there in the back

 

[Californian Elitist]

Saw it today, its heavily downgraded from its peak when its debuted. I still find it charming.

Speaking of charming looks like Festival of the Lion King, back its Cirque adjacent glory, has some of that Bayou Light they talked about at D23, its there in the back

View attachment 666953

Good to see it back!

I’m sorry to hear about KiteTails, but it sounds like it’s still good enough to see. I hope they go all out for the last performance.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Good to see it back!

I’m sorry to hear about KiteTails, but it sounds like it’s still good enough to see. I hope they go all out for the last performance.

They'll never do it, but it'd be amazing if they ended with a blooper reel of all the biggest mishaps!

 

[Californian Elitist]

They'll never do it, but it'd be amazing if they ended with a blooper reel of all the biggest mishaps!

If that was promised and I had money and time, I’d book the trip!

 

[Disney Analyst]

Photo from the source we can’t post about…

Sign now up.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Photo from the source we can’t post about…

Sign now up.


View attachment 667045

Looks good. It's a store I didn't shop at before, and I probably won't shop at now.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Honestly I really don’t know how to respond to this post because the lack of self awareness is mind blowing.

WDW is a full fledged vacation destination with all the bells and whistles. It’s constantly getting updated in several different ways.

Whether that’s a new restaurant or even queue enhancements it’s always something that adds to the overall experience.

I think it’s a little silly to make assumptions about what fans believe or not concerning the resort. Nobody is a mind reader around here so I think we need come back to reality.

???

I would say that this response is mind-blowing. And confusing. Just to make sure, are you saying the fans got enough for the 50th? I feel like you didn’t actually address that part of my post. If you did, then okay. Also, if you’re taken aback that we have the belief that WDW should have gotten more for the anniversary, then okay again.

I’m not making assumptions, I’m stating facts. There are WDW fans, both here and outside of here, that believe the excuse for why the resort doesn’t get plussed as much, get new things, etc. That is literally a fact. No one is saying WDW never gets updates. However, what we are saying is that it doesn’t get as many similar updates and changes as Disneyland gets (holiday overlays, new ride effects, character offerings and outfit changes, etc.). Many fans here complain about this all the time. Take a look at the MNSSHP thread. They’re on social media, too. “When is this coming to WDW?” “What about Orlando?” WDW fans were literally upset that a Disneyland parade was getting a small 50th celebration, and was to be celebrated at, well… Disneyland. We’re not making things up over here. No need for a crystal ball or a psychic because we’re not assuming.

Again, I’m confused.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

To clear the air (for what it’s worth): All of my criticism leveled at WDW operations has always been levied at current Disney management including TDO and the C-Suite of TWDC - my posts (even if satirical or purely speculative) we’re never intended as an attack on the many front line CMs and certainly never die-hard fans of any resort.

From what I’ve seen (and as I said previously) I feel like fans of WDW genuinely deserved much better for the 50th and I also think as a legacy Disney fan first that it was disrespectful to Walt, Roy, and the entire WED/WDI team involved in the Florida project from its early planning to conception not to feature them more prominently and to make the 50th headliner entertainment feel like a “what’s trending now on Disney+“ promotion. And I don’t think I’m in the minority feeling this way based on the online reactions.

But having not been to the WDW resort in person in around two decades, as I recall there are undoubtedly great things about it including some exceptional hotels and great AA shows. EPCOT and Animal Kingdom (though they’ve evolved tremendously since my last visit) will always be among my favorite theme park experiences. And many CMs and devoted fans that love and cherish the place.

 

[Californian Elitist]

You’ve made several questionable posts in the past that are just pure hyperbole.

I’ve seen you say “WDW fans don’t care about quality”. That’s definitely false and really funny because fans being upset hasn’t stopped Disney from doing something highly unpopular on either coast.

Whether or not I like the 50th celebration is irrelevant to this conversation. However I will say that Disney should always strive for the best when it comes to anything attached to their brand.

I’ve literally seen DL fans doing just the same when it comes to certain things exclusively located at WDW. Nothing special or unique about people asking for things they see at the other resorts.

I don’t why you are trying turn this into a competition but it’s not that serious. I’ve said my peace on this topic and choosing not to dwell it on much longer.

You’re the one turning it into a competition and turning this into something it’s not. This conversation started with my comment about being sad that I won’t be able to see KiteTails in person. Not sure how that insinuates competition. That then led to some comments about the lackluster 50th celebration (which seems to be the general consensus amongst WDW fans) and how the fans deserved more. Again, competition? And then you came in. I didn’t ask you if you liked the 50th celebration, I asked you if you had the opinion that fans got as much as they deserved, which you still have yet to clarify. It’s not irrelevant, as that’s what started the conversation that you entered with the Cookie Monster GIF.

Can you point me to the exact post where I said “WDW fans don’t care about quality”? I did a search with those exact words and my name and nothing came up. In fact, what did come up is a post where I said that Disneyland fans generally don’t care about quality, which I stand by.

You’re right, DL fans have made similar comments. I never said we didn’t. However, we’re talking about WDW fans and how they feel about the 50th anniversary and what they actually deserved, as well as their responses to the things they don’t get that we do on a regular basis (overlays, new character offerings, ride upgrades, etc.). So, I stand by what I said. If you’re bothered by my wishes to see KiteTails in person, my opinion that fans should have gotten more for the 50th, and my theories as to why TDA and TDO operate the way they do, that’s fine. Again, I said what I said and I stand by it.

Have a great day.

 

[Californian Elitist]

But having not been to the WDW resort in person in around two decades, as I recall there are undoubtedly great things about it including some exceptional hotels and great AA shows. EPCOT and Animal Kingdom (though they’ve evolved tremendously since my last visit) will always be among my favorite theme park experiences. And many CMs and devoted fans that love and cherish the place.

I’m defending you and this post here. None of us were ragging on WDW as a place in general. We were talking about TDO and management this entire time.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I’m defending you and this post here. None of us were ragging on WDW as a place in general. We were talking about TDO and management this entire time.

Thanks @Californian Elitist.

I’ll defend you as well as I believe we were both essentially saying the same thing. The one thing we may quibble on is if the locals vs tourist dynamic is impacting TWDC decision-making but that’s speculation.

I just think the point should be clear that I don’t feel anyone is setting out on trying to attack WDW or it’s fans. To the contrary, WDW is the backbone of the modern Disney company. And there’s concern that those in charge don’t appreciate nor understand it’s importance to the tapestry of TWDC and even the broader global entertainment industry.