The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[PiratesMansion]

A very similar investigation came out for Disneyland years ago, and I do think improvements have been made since, but I really don't know enough.

Definitely not wanting to imply it's a Universal only issue, just wanted to jump off the idea that Universal is doing some of the best things in the industry right now, and while I appreciate their investment into the parks and experience, if they are really leading the industry, that should also mean internally, aka your supposed valued team members. Lead the way, by ensuring the best people are hired, the guest experience is impeccable, and your people can survive and give you their best possible output.

Yep.

If there's anything the biggest corporations have taught me in the last decade, it's that valuing your employees (other than the people in the C-Suite, of course) is apparently very, very hard.

 

[TP2000]

What is the solution?

We want dependable, responsible, and hardworking cast members and team members working in these high profit world class theme parks, and we complain when they are no longer like they used to be, and the service is not what it used to be. So what do you want? High schoolers who could care less and minimum wage is all they need when starting out, or a work force who is dedicated and passionate about your company, and who you treat fairly and pay well enough to at least get by in the community your theme park is located in? We need people to work these jobs, and it's a fact that cost of living has far outpaced wages.

People who work entry-level, minimum wage jobs that require no formal training or no higher education should not be trying to raise four children. My heart goes out to her for the decisions she made in life that got her there, as we've all made bad decisions at times. But putting icing on donuts is not a skillset that should be able to get you $75,000 per year and a new Corolla.

As for quality of Cast Members (or whatever they're called at Universal Studios), I think the solution to the current problems with their lack of polish and courtesy is better training and better front line management. No one seems to care, and that starts with the front line management. The Dockers clad class, if you will.

Disneyland has always been staffed mostly by young school-aged teens and college kids. If some CM's were able to make a career out of being a ride operator or line cook at Tomorrowland Terrace, and they enjoyed it, then more power to them! But let's not pretend that Disneyland used to pay the teenagers of Orange County big wages when the park was run with much higher standards of showmanship, courtesy and professionalism than it is today.

These are 1970's college girls working part-time at Disneyland, not middle aged mothers of four children working overnight shifts in the kitchen...

It's very easy to say go to school, get a better paying job, but not everyone is going to be afforded the opportunity to get to post-secondary, and not everyone should need to. And even if you get through post-secondary, it's not like there are enough well paying jobs for everyone to have.

I would think trade school or culinary school would be the right direction for someone like Ms. Arceo. We need a lot more kitchen supervisors and electricians and mechanics than we need more Communications majors. For years now, Disneyland pays for those types of trade school and skilled craftsman programs, plus BA programs, for its own CM's as part of its benefits package. Disneyland pays 100% of the tuition up front, and the CM then makes of that what they will.

Does anyone know if Universal Studios offers the same type thing? And if Universal Studios does offer something similar, why hasn't Ms. Arceo engaged with that program, or any of the similar programs from local and state government?

Disney Aspire and Employee Education

Disney Aspire empowers employees through education investment and career development. Learn how the program works and how to qualify.

disneyconnect.com

We need people working in theme parks, fast food, and numerous other similar industries. Regardless of the job, workers should be afforded enough to survive. It's not an unreasonable ask, especially when we are talking huge companies who can definitely afford to pay their workers more.

What's your solution to someone like Ms. Arceo? She puts icing on donuts for $19 an hour, and it's a job that can be instantly filled by any 18 year old that walks in and requires minimal training. Does the 18 year old donut icer get paid $19 an hour, but because Ms. Arceo has four children she automatically gets paid $30 an hour to ice the same donuts?

And at what dollar amount for icing donuts does Universal Studios realize it would be cheaper to buy a robot to ice the donuts instead of paying a person $19 an hour to do that menial task?

 

[TP2000]

Looking online, it appears that Universal Studios theme park employees do get tuition assistance for trade schools, skilled craftsmen programs, and college. It's not as generous as Disneyland's 100% paid tuition up front, but it appears to be "75% of tuition, books, and lab fees" paid for Universal Studios hourly employees, up to 8 class courses per year.

There's also the usual basket of employee benefits from Universal's HR department, including "Financial planning support".

I have to wonder why Ms. Arceo didn't take advantage of that in the past 8 years? Or better yet, why her culinary union that she pays dues money to didn't engage with her to assist in getting her into the Universal Studios employer-paid programs and offerings like this?

I'm saying this for the 100th time again, but I was a dues paying Teamsters for several years as a young man. They happily took my dues money and never gave me a thing back, except for fighting to keep the laziest and most annoying employees from getting fired.

What has Ms. Arceo's union leadership done for her these past 8 years? Did they get to know her, understand that she's a single mother of 4, and try to get her into an employer-paid program of education and career assistance? If Ms. Arceo's managers are failing her in engaging with her on these issues of personal improvement and career development, why hasn't her union leadership that she pays dues money to done anything for her?

 

[SuddenStorm]

We need people working in theme parks, fast food, and numerous other similar industries. Regardless of the job, workers should be afforded enough to survive. It's not an unreasonable ask, especially when we are talking huge companies who can definitely afford to pay their workers more.

I think everyone agrees with this in principle.

The only place where people start to disagree is when the statement 'works should be afforded enough to survive' is made, when that dollar figure varies wildly depending on who you ask and someone's life circumstances.

In this case, MIT puts the minimum living wage for someone with three kids in LA County at $75/hour, while 1 single person is $21. Should Universal have to pay these two wildly different rates to different people based on their life circumstances?

 

[SuddenStorm]

What has Ms. Arceo's union leadership done for her these past 8 years? Did they get to know her, understand that she's a single mother of 4, and try to get her into an employer-paid program of education and career assistance? If Ms. Arceo's managers are failing her in engaging with her on these issues of personal improvement and career development, why hasn't her union leadership that she pays dues money to done anything for her?

The union's job isn't to help someone progress and potentially get a job out of the union- it's to keep them paying union dues as long as possible.
.
It's amazing to me that people still think the Disneyland unions have the employees interests at heart. They don't. They've been failing the workers across the board for years.

 

[SuddenStorm]

A very similar investigation came out for Disneyland years ago, and I do think improvements have been made since, but I really don't know enough.

This lady has been working at Disneyland longer than I've been alive. There is no excuse for her to have not been able to develop enough professionally to get a job that's not minimum wage in that time. Which would be a far more fruitful endeavor than lobbying Disney to try and force her way into a raise.

 

[TP2000]

In this case, MIT puts the minimum living wage for someone with three kids in LA County at $75/hour, while 1 single person is $21. Should Universal have to pay these two wildly different rates to different people based on their life circumstances?

That's it exactly, and usually the point where folks who want theme parks to "Pay a Living Wage!" all go suddenly silent.

Ms. Arceo is a single mother of four children who has worked at Universal Studios for 8 years putting icing on donuts. Universal Studios pays her $19 per hour to do that, even though there's probably a robot available today or in the near future that can replace that labor skill for cheaper, and without the costs of payroll taxes, medical/dental insurance, tuition reimbursement (although Ms. Arceo didn't take advantage of that), plus employee benefits and perks and HR costs, etc.

So what should Ms. Arceo be paid per hour to put icing on donuts? If $19 per hour for that task is not enough in the opinion of some people here, what should she make? Should her four children be considered by her employer as a reason to pay her more? And if so, why would they employ her at all if there's another person in LA who doesn't have four children who would take her donut icing job for $19 per hour?

 

[𝕴𝖒𝖆𝖌𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖊𝖗97]

Don't know where else to post this, but I'm giving up posting in and looking at the Forums for Lent. See you all in 40 days!

 

[mickEblu]

Don't know where else to post this, but I'm giving up posting in and looking at the Forums for Lent. See you all in 40 days!

You're a better man than me but I will have a McDonalds Filet-O-Fish on Good Friday.

 

[Consumer]

I'm giving up being happy for Lent. Only negativity and cruelty from me from now until Easter.

 

[CaptinEO]

BTW made a major typo saying "I don't like empathy for them", it was supposed to say "I don't lack empathy for them". Completely different meanings in this case.

@SuddenStorm I broadly agree with your points. However, I do have thoughts on a few of them:

To be honest, this is not a Disney problem, this is basically an industry-wide problem. Universal is the exception here, and clearly it has paid dividends for them. They are to be commended for their handling of everything thrown at them in 2020. But go to pretty much anywhere that isn't a Universal park and it's the same situation as Disney-or, as is often the case, worse.

Obviously I would prefer that we were still in the days of free, paper FP, but the industry has basically abandoned free line-skipping systems. I would prefer we went back to free FP, but that's probably not going to happen. If that's not going to change, than we need to look at what will make G+ more functional, which relates to pricing. The big miss with Disney's strategy is that they have decided to try and price it low enough so that everyone buys it, which causes all sorts of issues. If they're going to keep upcharge FP, they need to dramatically raise the prices-a la every other park-so that it is cost-prohibitive for most guests, which would allow the standby queues to actually move clower to how they're supposed to and get more guests off of midways. They do need to fix Genie, and sooner rather than later. I just don't imagine there's a universe where they don't accomplish that without pricing most people out.

Again, this is an industry wide issue and Disney is not the only one doing this. As said, Universal is doing this, but so too are Six Flags and Cedar Fair. Food prices are up and quality is down industry-wide. That said, I actually have to commend Disneyland's food service right now. It is comparably priced to other parks and considerably better quality with more interesting options than pretty much any other park (or set of parks) than I can think of.

Disney has been doing this since at least 2018 with understaffing their food service registers, possibly sooner.

Six Flags and Cedar Fair are much cheaper and lower standards than Disneyland.

I know we spoke about it before but Dollywood is wonderful and was a properly ran and maintained park with none of the labor cutbacks you get at Disney. We can't say all the competition does it.

People like to assume that theme park jobs are all for unskilled high schoolers, but 1) that primarily applied to smaller scale theme parks that were largely open summer or weekends only, and 2) even those parks don't have all that many high schoolers working there anymore. Kids are being pushed to think about how every single summer activity might make them stand out to a college or future career, and unfortunately, working at a theme park is not seen as something that will help them to do that. Most of the seasonal parks near me have shifted many of their employees to either adults or international workers.

But parks that are open year round (especially in the way Disney parks are operated) cannot run primarily on high schoolers or college students. The parks have to run when kids are in school, so this long-enduring stereotype that it's all high schoolers is not and has never been true (same for fast food workers-someone has to run the restaurant when the kids are at school, y'know?). If the parks are going to have enough staffing, and good staffing, it needs to be adults, and generally speaking, if adults are compensated well and treated well by guests and their employer, it's going to result in better service. So you can say you don't have empathy for them, but that's not going to result in a better experience for you or anyone else. You should want them to be well compensated, because service will be better if they are.

Good point about them being a 365 days park so needing more than high school students.

Yes I agree the guest experience would be much better for anything when employees are happy and paid well.

It's amazing how many don't get this. There are only so many high tech, high paying jobs out there,

Same goes for any job category. There's also only so many themepark and minimum wage jobs. Even in the field I'm in I choose to intern for 10 dollars an hour for 6 months pre graduation to get work experience before doing lots of interviews.

and even people who did what their parents told them and got a college degree are often struggling to make ends meet in today's world

It really depends on the degree and line of work but yes cost of living post covid has been crazy.

Many respectable, living class jobs (ex.: nursing, teaching, among others) don't pay the bills quite as effectively as they once did, and now many face far more debt than their predecessors would have. For a long, LONG time, most job growth has been in the service industry while other once reliable/profitable jobs or industries continue to contract or disappear.

My wife and I have good incomes yet some months feel like we barely scrap by if a large expense comes up. Even housing prices and living expenses in the last 4 years alone make things more difficult for everyone.

However I can absolutely guarantee you something with a STEM college degree and a career in their field (even if it takes time to move up) will likely struggle much less than a frontline themepark employee being stagnant for 8 years.

Saying someone's going to be failing anyways isn't a good argument for someone being worse off financially. People need to do what they can do empower themselves with skills that can better their financial situation.

My wife got her degree online while working full time. Online schooling makes it possible and Disney even pays for college tuition.

You can't just dismiss an entire complex of employees with "eh, you don't deserve to make a livable wage because some 18 year old can do it" if those are some of the only ways that people can get work.

I'm not saying what they do or don't deserve, just talking about reality of what they earn. If themepark workers made 6 figures I'd be saying it's a great career option. But as it stands it is a low paying job and that is not likely to change, even with a few dollar bumps every 5 years.

People are weirdly preoccupied with whether or not strangers are employed, but when people actually go out and get a job, then many of those same "get a job" people will just look for an excuse to look down on those workers so that they can deny them a living wage.

I don't look down on people for what they do. I look down on someone making poor choices though and complaining about it like the world is the problem. I respect any workers for any industry and it's not my business what they make.

But if you go complaining to the LA times that scooping ice cream at Main Street for 10 years isn't helping you make ends meet, there is an element there of "why aren't you doing something to better your situation". Are they expecting one day this job will pay their bills? They are in a losing battle and the help those people need is

1) Encouragement to improve their skills/education to land better paying jobs (again Disney pays college tuition)
2) Their employee to announce suddenly they are going to pay all minimum wage employees 2-3x more money

The idea of 2 is nice but 1 is real and achievable today. Employees should look out for themselves and not wait around for the company to do it. I've left numerous jobs due to improper compensation and lack of upward movement potential.

If the only job around and that will take them is service work, even if people have the education and credentials to do "more respectable work" on paper, than what are those people supposed to do?

With the exception of mental and physical disabilities, anyone can do anything.

If someone has the credentials and education to do better but are stuck as Universal CM then they better get on moving elsewhere.

I think one issue with degrees is people forget to get work experience prior and just expect to go from college degree to full time worker. Doing an internship is essential and I'm glad I did it despite people around me saying I was crazy for doing my internship (2 hour commute each way, 10 dollars an hour).

I also want to add that I have people in my family and circle of friends who work minimum wage jobs at retail or fastfood that are in their 30s and are capable of so much more. There is nothing limiting these people besides themselves. Now they are all having issues with finances but had ample opportunity and free time to do more. With these people that I personally know a lot of it does come down to laziness or being scared to try something new.

I don't look down on these people but I do feel like they are making poor choices and I'd say the same applies to anyone in the themepark sector who is sticking around year after year.

I'm not saying the world is fair and that the way things work are right or wrong. A lot is stacked against people as it stands with today's cost of living and job market and it isn't easy. But doing something for yourself is the only way to help yourself, the fastfood/retail/themepark companies aren't looking out for their staff and likely never will.

People need to do whatever they can to put themselves in the best financial position possible.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I guess a state representative (Barbara Lee) has given a number. Says a living wage for California is $50/hour.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I don't look down on people for what they do. I look down on someone making poor choices though and complaining about it like the world is the problem. I respect any workers for any industry and it's not my business what they make.

I'm not in the position at the moment to give your post the full lookover it likely deserves, but I just want to point out this one comment. To me, this is a contradiction. You don't look down on people for what they do, but nevertheless, by looking down on the choices they make (often without context as to why those decisions are made), you are making judgments-negative judgments.

If they're still working at Insert Theme Park Here or Minimum Wage Restaurant 5, it must be because they chose to stay there. I imagine every single person has been stuck at a job longer than they wanted to at one point or other, so why are people so quick to assume that if people are stuck in one spot, it must mean that they're obviously complete and total morons?

One other thing I want to comment on, and CaptinEO, I'm honestly not sure off the top of my head if you are included in this group or not, so if you didn't make a comment to this effect, than you can personally disregard. But here goes: the assumption by several in here that people stuck in these positions should know ahead of time what their lot in life is going to be long into the future, and have a correspondingly appropriate number of kids is...gross. Not much else to say beyond that. Just gross.

 

[CaptinEO]

I'm not in the position at the moment to give your post the full lookover it likely deserves, but I just want to point out this one comment. To me, this is a contradiction. You don't look down on people for what they do, but by looking down on the choices they make (often without context as to why those decisions are made), you are making judgments.

Everyone makes bad decisions now and then. But the people I know in some predicaments have personally continued making bad decisions that have over a long period of time seriously harmed their quality of life and had many bad implications. All of it was avoidable.

Can't speak for everyone I don't know and sometimes we make mistakes, but hanging out at Universal for 8 years and just hoping your situation changes isn't good for anyone. These people need help and their employer sadly isn't the one that will give it to them.

If they're still working at Insert Theme Park Here or Minimum Wage Restaurant 5, it must be because they chose to stay there. I imagine every single person has been stuck at a job longer than they wanted to at one point or other, so why are people so quick to assume that if people are stuck in one spot, it must mean that they're obviously complete and total morons?

It happens, I've been in jobs I didn't like longer than I should've been too.

I'm saying if someone is complaining to the LA times and sitting around hoping things will get better, they likely do need to alter course. Just the reality of things, I want them to succeed.

One other thing I want to comment on, and CaptinEO, I'm honestly not sure off the top of my head if you are included in this group or not, so if you didn't make a comment to this effect, than you can personally disregard. But here goes: the assumption by several in here that people stuck in these positions should know ahead of time what their lot in life is going to be long into the future, and have a correspondingly appropriate number of kids is...gross.

Huh? I'm advocating for people
to improve their financial situation no matter what, quite the opposite of encouraging anyone to be stagnant.

Not sure what you mean about child planning but I don't think income seems to equate to the number of children people have. Plenty of people have children or don't regardless of income.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Everyone makes bad decisions now and then. But the people I know in some predicaments have personally continued making bad decisions that have over a long period of time seriously harmed their quality of life and had many bad implications. All of it was avoidable.

Can't speak for everyone I don't know and sometimes we make mistakes, but hanging out at Universal for 8 years and just hoping your situation changes isn't good for anyone. These people need help and their employer sadly isn't the one that will give it to them.

Do we know, other than personal conjecture, that these people just stuck around like passive lemmings? We don't. I do think we as a culture are a bit too eager to blame individual workers rather than the company that employs them. Companies should have some sense of responsibility to people who have been around for awhile beyond a negligible raise and a cookie once in awhile, no?

It happens, I've been in jobs I didn't like longer than I should've been too.

I'm saying if someone is complaining to the LA times and sitting around hoping things will get better, they likely do need to alter course. Just the reality of things, I want them to succeed.

Again, we don't know that they're sitting there doing nothing to improve their situation. Instead, people are making assumptions based on one article.

If your general position is to assume that these people are sitting there doing nothing and therefore deserve what they get, can you say you want them to succeed beyond a vague, generic statement of goodwill that is often followed by a stated or implied ", but..."?

Huh? I'm advocating for people
to improve their financial situation no matter what, quite the opposite of encouraging anyone to be stagnant.

Not sure what you mean about child planning but I don't think income seems to equate to the number of children people have. Plenty of people have children or don't regardless of income.

As I said, I wasn't sure that you specifically made such comments (hence the disclaimer), but such statements were definitely expressed by a few people in this thread over the past day or so. Perhaps some were deleted, but some are still there as of now.

 

[Alanzo]

At some point you're just either defending the owners of capital for paying their workers as little as possible or defending the workers for a wanting more for their existing efforts.

It's been debated before by smarter people. It will be debated again by smarter people. Where you stand has likely less to do with capital vs labor as a concept and more to do with how you view things like the limits of government in addressing private relationships between employers and employees, how much empathy you have for your fellow man (and what to do with that empathy) and finally the role of luck in life vs. self-determination. And, of course, your own lived experience.

Minds will not be changed on the Disneyland Miscellaneous Thoughts thread but you can certainly use the Like button to let everyone know where you stand.

 

[Consumer]

By the grace of God I was able to snag a campground reservation for Yosemite this June. Within two minutes all of them reservations were booked. My plan is to head up to and spend a night in Sequoia - I was there back in 2019 but did not get to explore much - and then pass through Kings Canyon on my way to Yosemite. Lord willing the winter storms do not ruin the roads and close down the parks like last year.

Even though I no longer live in California, it's such a blessing to be able to visit regularly and enjoy the natural beauty of the state. I'll also be spending a night in Joshua Tree earlier in June, and perhaps in July I'll make a trip to Pinnacles and Big Sur, though I am still undecided on that and will depend on if PCH is open by then.

 

[mickEblu]

Is the food really better at DCA? Everyone seems to think so. Why am I always eating at Disneyland then?

 

[Disney Irish]

Is the food really better at DCA? Everyone seems to think so. Why am I always eating at Disneyland then?

Tradition?

 

[PiratesMansion]

Is the food really better at DCA? Everyone seems to think so. Why am I always eating at Disneyland then?

There's a strong argument to be made IMO.

Most of the best food inside the parks my last few trips, other than Plaza Inn, has been at DCA.

While it's annoying that everyone wants to eat there, SFS has several great options (not all of which are new, but some I only discovered for the first time this past year).
-Karaage Fried Chicken Sandwich at LFC
-Beef Bulgogi Burrito at LFC
-It's dessert, but since I'm on the LFC train, I can't forget to mention the Baymax Macaron, the best new DLR dessert I've had in a long time.
-QuesaBirria at CC
-I also quite enjoyed the mexican options they were serving at the time at Paradise Garden Grill
-Probably unlikely to be exciting to you, given that it's very much a California thing, but I thought the Carne Asada fries at Award Wieners were quite good also.

Additionally, not technically in DCA but close enough, the GCH Craftsmen Grill has a lot of great options, or go to the Bar side for the same menu and table service.

DL definitely has some legacy items that remain excellent, but in terms of new-to-me items, I've had much more success at DCA than DL as of late.