The forest arrives at Fantasy Forest in the new Fantasyland

[Magenta Panther]

I presume you're referring to me when you say "some" call it a moat

I would like to enter the following evidence:

1) Artists rendering showing a moat in front of LM.

2) Artists rendering showing a waterfall on BatB which flows into a moat which flows into a large pond near the future Mine Ride area (almost exactly where said excavator was sitting in a moat-shaped hole)

There's a waterfall in the opening scene of the Beauty and the Beast movie, framed by rose bushes. I wonder if there'll be rosebushes planted near the castle? That could be beautiful!

 

[Neverland]

^Minus a 'few' leaks here and there....

Tunnel juice, yum. I was eating a danish while walking down there once, and then DRIP. Needless to say, I didn't finish my danish...

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Tunnel juice, yum. I was eating a danish while walking down there once, and then DRIP. Needless to say, I didn't finish my danish...

I love how non-CM's speak of the tunnels as if they're some mysterious and awe-inspiring place just out of the typical Disney fandom's reach.

When the reality is they're disgusting, dirty, and smell awful. I have to walk by both a dumpster and a grease trap every day on the way to Frontierland.

 

[xdan0920]

I love how non-CM's speak of the tunnels as if they're some mysterious and awe-inspiring place just out of the typical Disney fandom's reach.

When the reality is they're disgusting, dirty, and smell awful. I have to walk by both a dumpster and a grease trap every day on the way to Frontierland.

The tunnels are meant to be functional so it's not a surprise that there are dumpsters and grease traps.

The thing about the tunnels that inspire awe is the genius and dedication to good show that it took to conceive of and construct them. It has nothing to do with them being some kind of magical portal. We understand what is going on under there, and we are thankful to Walt that because of his genius we never have to see it.

The utilidors should inspire awe. Sorry you find them disgusting, better you then us.

 

[MotherOfBirds]

I personally thought the tunnels were fascinating. It's an entire city underground, like the mole people!:lol:

 

[njDizFan]

I KNOW!!!! Jeez but that was fast! Good for Disney! And those are good-looking trees...I hope they're part of the Forest and not just camouflage (that part's hard to believe though...big live trees don't come cheap. Heck, little live trees don't come cheap, as anyone who buys live trees for Christmas could tell you.)

I heard Disneyworld has their own tree farm near DAK. They have 750 full time horticulturists to grow and maintain the trees,plants shrubs and flower beds.

http://wikimapia.org/2454275/Walt-Disney-World-Horticulture

 

[BigThunderMatt]

The tunnels are meant to be functional so it's not a surprise that there are dumpsters and grease traps.

The thing about the tunnels that inspire awe is the genius and dedication to good show that it took to conceive of and construct them. It has nothing to do with them being some kind of magical portal. We understand what is going on under there, and we are thankful to Walt that because of his genius we never have to see it.

The utilidors should inspire awe. Sorry you find them disgusting, better you then us.

The concept and creation of utilidors did not lie with Walt Disney. He was just the first to build them under a theme park. If it was such an awe-inspiring and ground-breaking thing (which it wasn't) they would have built a full network of tunnels under every park (and with the exception of Epcot having a small system below Innoventions...not a single Disney park since has been designed with a Utilidor system).

 

[Tom]

The concept and creation of utilidors did not lie with Walt Disney. He was just the first to build them under a theme park. If it was such an awe-inspiring and ground-breaking thing (which it wasn't) they would have built a full network of tunnels under every park (and with the exception of Epcot having a small system below Innoventions...not a single Disney park since has been designed with a Utilidor system).

Well, you've forgotten about the fifth Key to the Kingdom: Cost, which can either be placed before or after Safety, depending on how you look at it, as follows:

(Cost) - Safety - (Cost) - Courtesy - Show - Efficiency

They laid out Epcot so that they wouldn't have to build them (except for the short one under FW). You can access everything else from the perimeter roads, and the utilities are accessible throughout the park by way of manholes and vaults.

With the Studios, they used to say that they didn't need to hide the out-of-place CMs because "it's a movie lot - it's OK to see a bellhop walking through Pixar Place". I interpreted that to mean "We can't afford tunnels under this park - we can barely afford to put enough rides in it for opening day. Hey, I have a great excuse we can use!"

AK, well, I've never seen an out of place CM. But again, tunnels are too expensive to build today.

 

[IlikeDW]

Well, you've forgotten about the fifth Key to the Kingdom: Cost, which can either be placed before or after Safety, depending on how you look at it, as follows:

(Cost) - Safety - (Cost) - Courtesy - Show - Efficiency

They laid out Epcot so that they wouldn't have to build them (except for the short one under FW). You can access everything else from the perimeter roads, and the utilities are accessible throughout the park by way of manholes and vaults.

With the Studios, they used to say that they didn't need to hide the out-of-place CMs because "it's a movie lot - it's OK to see a bellhop walking through Pixar Place". I interpreted that to mean "We can't afford tunnels under this park - we can barely afford to put enough rides in it for opening day. Hey, I have a great excuse we can use!"

AK, well, I've never seen an out of place CM. But again, tunnels are too expensive to build today.

were th MK tunnels actually built as tunnels? I always thought they were built at ground , then then evreything was built up and on top of them?

 

[Tom]

were th MK tunnels actually built as tunnels? I always thought they were built at ground , then then evreything was built up and on top of them?

Your second sentence is correct. They were designed and built to BECOME the basement level of the Magic Kingdom.

They are not technically the "first floor" as so many tour guides and trivia mongers like to put it. They were built on existing grade and covered with compacted soil dredged from what is now known as Seven Seas Lagoon.

The International Building Code (which is what the Epcot Building Code is currently based upon) defines a story (floor) as any habitable space with the finished floor being no more than 6' below the adjacent grade. Anything below that is a "basement" story.

Thus, the "utilidors" are actually a basement when directly under a building (i.e. like in the case of Main Street) and "tunnels" or "subterranean structure" when there is no structure above them (much of the rest of the park).

They were aptly named "utilidors" (Utility Corridors) because that's literally what they are - corridors for utilities. They also conveniently house offices, warehouse space, computer rooms and other cast support areas.

 

[IlikeDW]

Your second sentence is correct. They were designed and built to BECOME the basement level of the Magic Kingdom.

They are not technically the "first floor" as so many tour guides and trivia mongers like to put it. They were built on existing grade and covered with compacted soil dredged from what is now known as Seven Seas Lagoon.

The International Building Code (which is what the Epcot Building Code is currently based upon) defines a story (floor) as any habitable space with the finished floor being no more than 6' below the adjacent grade. Anything below that is a "basement" story.

Thus, the "utilidors" are actually a basement when directly under a building (i.e. like in the case of Main Street) and "tunnels" or "subterranean structure" when there is no structure above them (much of the rest of the park).

They were aptly named "utilidors" (Utility Corridors) because that's literally what they are - corridors for utilities. They also conveniently house offices, warehouse space, computer rooms and other cast support areas.

Did the manner in which they were built reduce the cost as opposed to having to dig down to build or is it pretty much the same?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The tunnels are meant to be functional so it's not a surprise that there are dumpsters and grease traps.

The thing about the tunnels that inspire awe is the genius and dedication to good show that it took to conceive of and construct them. It has nothing to do with them being some kind of magical portal. We understand what is going on under there, and we are thankful to Walt that because of his genius we never have to see it.

The utilidors should inspire awe. Sorry you find them disgusting, better you then us.

The idea was not really Walt Disney's. In The Heart of Our Cities: The Urban Crisis: Diagnosis and Cure (1964) by Victor Gruen, he discussed how he placed services in malls, preferring underground, and how he believes that this idea should be expanded to urban centers and eventually cities. He even discusses reasserting pedestrianism and proposes using full scale versions of transit systems that had been prototyped at World's Fairs and other expositions that never stopped moving. Sound familiar?

Did the manner in which they were built reduce the cost as opposed to having to dig down to build or is it pretty much the same?

Walt Disney World is mostly swamp, there is not a whole lot to dig down into.

 

[Tom]

Did the manner in which they were built reduce the cost as opposed to having to dig down to build or is it pretty much the same?

The way they first built them was the least expensive, by far. Since the soil was compacted and in place, you just pour the footings and start building a simple concrete box with waterproofing on all sides.

Digging out and building them in a hole would cost a lot more.

 

[IlikeDW]

The way they first built them was the least expensive, by far. Since the soil was compacted and in place, you just pour the footings and start building a simple concrete box with waterproofing on all sides.

Digging out and building them in a hole would cost a lot more.

Thanks, thats what I would have guessed but without any construction experience you can never be sure.

 

[Denscott]

The idea was not really Walt Disney's. In The Heart of Our Cities: The Urban Crisis: Diagnosis and Cure (1964) by Victor Gruen, he discussed how he placed services in malls, preferring underground, and how he believes that this idea should be expanded to urban centers and eventually cities. He even discusses reasserting pedestrianism and proposes using full scale versions of transit systems that had been prototyped at World's Fairs and other expositions that never stopped moving. Sound familiar?


Walt Disney World is mostly swamp, there is not a whole lot to dig down into.

You're probably right that Walt Disney did not come up with the idea but it was his idea to install that system to Florida and use "lessons learned" from Disneyland where space was extremely limited

 

[Magenta Panther]

I heard Disneyworld has their own tree farm near DAK. They have 750 full time horticulturists to grow and maintain the trees,plants shrubs and flower beds.

http://wikimapia.org/2454275/Walt-Disney-World-Horticulture

Awesome! I consider myself a Disneyphile, but I learn new things here all the time. Thanks!

 

[RAXIP]

Your second sentence is correct. They were designed and built to BECOME the basement level of the Magic Kingdom.

They are not technically the "first floor" as so many tour guides and trivia mongers like to put it. They were built on existing grade and covered with compacted soil dredged from what is now known as Seven Seas Lagoon.

Although all stairwells and elevators label the "Tunnel"/"utilidor" level as 1 and the Park level as 2.

 

[jhastings74]

I personally thought the tunnels were fascinating. It's an entire city underground, like the mole people!:lol:

It was my favorite part of Traditions. When I got to walk in so that we could eat at the cafeteria, (which is really just an underground cafeteria...lol...) I was AMAZED. Since I was going to work at DAK, I wouldn't really ever have the chance/need to go in them again. So I enjoyed it, even as a CM.

 

[Tom]

Although all stairwells and elevators label the "Tunnel"/"utilidor" level as 1 and the Park level as 2.

I know. They can label their stories however they wish, but it's still a basement

 

[NASAMan]

The way they first built them was the least expensive, by far. Since the soil was compacted and in place, you just pour the footings and start building a simple concrete box with waterproofing on all sides.

Digging out and building them in a hole would cost a lot more.

And this is why they were not used extensively at the other parks. Because of the distance between the parking area and the Magic Kingdom the change in grade is barely noticeable. If they used the same technique at, say, the Studios, there would need to be long incline to get to the gate from the parking lot. The shorter utilidor at Epcot which runs under Innoventions East and West was excavated as part of the foundation construction. You enter it from backstage behind the wheelchair stroller rental and walk down a long ramp. A corridor to the left curves under Innovations East, or continue curving to the right around the foundation for Spaceship Earth to meet the other corridor the curves under Innovations West.