The Death of Orlando High Speed Rail

[Texas84]

Please make it stop. :brick:

 

[Mick G.]

The entire federal program of high-speed rail projects has been so mismanaged and so poorly implemented it has set the prospects for passenger rail development in the United States back years.

If the planning was handled so poorly, imagine how smoothly construction and operation would have gone. Never underestimate the Fed's ability to mess up a perfectly good train ride. Been there, done that.

Mick

 

[kcnole]

As a FL resident who's takes would have been required to maintain the thing after the Federal money runs out. I'm glad to not be paying the bill for trains that would have carried a handful of passengers.

 

[mcjaco]

Deader than disco. The idea of a regional transit authority working with Amtrak is interesting, but seems unlikely since Amtrak doesn't currently feature high speed rail.

They don't? Acela is run by Amtrak. Last I checked that was high speed.

pfffft... HS rail wasn't going to do me any good - I live in MI .

MI has "high speed rail." The Amtrak run between Chicago and Detroit is one of the faster lines outside of the Northeast Corridor.

Yeah, who ever said anything about building a connected national network of high-speed trains across an entire continent? It's not 1885, it's 2011.

If you need to go more than 250 miles, you should fly.

Even at 200MPH, all those trains would take triple or quadruple (or more) the amount of time it takes to fly from Chicago to Orlando. Not to mention the cost.

It's interesting that Disney has not said one single word about the death of high-speed rail in their own backyard, and on their own property. Disney appeared to be very, very weak supporters of this whole plan, and are probably relieved to see it die.

.

Really? I drive if I can go four to five hundred miles in six hours. I figure with getting to the airport, getting through security, flight time, getting my bags, and a rental car, it takes about the same time, and costs more. I'd gladly take a train that gets me there.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

They don't? Acela is run by Amtrak. Last I checked that was high speed.

Fair enough. My point was that no high-speed rail infrastructure currently exists in the country (and thus no partner with experience in building HSR for a regional authority to team up with), but you're right that Acela runs high speed trains on older rails. I'll take the demerit for lack of precision.

 

[mcjaco]

^ To be fair, the Northeast Corridor is an old rail line rebuilt to modern specifications It's not as nice as the European counterparts, but for what it is, it does it's job very well.

Hubs can be built and as traffic merits, they can then be connected.

 

[palmage]

As a FL resident who's takes would have been required to maintain the thing after the Federal money runs out. I'm glad to not be paying the bill for trains that would have carried a handful of passengers.

You are soooo right.
I'm glad that it'll never happen.
Absolute boondoggle

 

[TP2000]

Really? I drive if I can go four to five hundred miles in six hours. I figure with getting to the airport, getting through security, flight time, getting my bags, and a rental car, it takes about the same time, and costs more. I'd gladly take a train that gets me there.

And that's a totally understandable sentiment if you live in the Midwest. If I lived in the Midwest or East Coast again, the car would often be a quicker option again.

I was speaking from my current location on the West Coast, where in my family many of my regional destinations are over extreme freeway mountain passes that can often be closed in winter and/or require tire chains to pass and take a great deal of patience. I have been stuck in small towns on either side of the Siskiyous of Northern California/Southern Oregon several times in my life doing the "Christmas Road Trip To Family" thing when they shut the freeway down for days at a time. I fly or train for those trips now.

Even here in sunny SoCal, the great Interstate-5 just 50 miles north of Los Angeles has been shut down several times this winter due to big snow and ice that Southern California drivers are never ready for. Pictures like this Disneyland Christmas scene are pleasant to look at, but create a travel nightmare for folks trying to drive over those mountains to get here. :lol:

Snow on Castle by Disney - Snow on San Gabriel Mountains by God

That said, a train trip through those same snow covered mountain passes is absolutely wonderful. Which is why I've taken the Amtrak Coast Starlight overnight up to the Pacific Northwest, or the California Zephyr over the Sierras to Utah several times.

The drive on I-4 from Tampa to Orlando is as flat and basic and easy as it gets. Since there's only typical gritty city bus service in either city to support the unbuilt train stations, the act of driving to the station in a perfectly timed trip, spending the minimum of 15 minutes of ticketing and staging on the platform for your scheduled train, travelling the 50 minutes on the train to the WDW station, disembarking and spending 15 minutes transferring to the correct Disney bus to drive you to your specific park.... all that would seem to take more time than simply driving yourself point to point even with some rush hour traffic on either end. A lot more hassle, too. :lookaroun

And I'm truly fascinated by the complete lack of comment by Disney on the cancellation of HSR in Florida. I'm sure they are breathing a sigh of relief in TDO that they won't have to deal with that now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's interesting that Disney has not said one single word about the death of high-speed rail in their own backyard, and on their own property. Disney appeared to be very, very weak supporters of this whole plan, and are probably relieved to see it die.

I think Disney knew that it was a longshot until it was actually carrying passengers. Either it would never open or it would take 20 years and Disney could pull the land they offered for the station at some point saying that the project was taking too long and no longer fit their land use plans.

Why bother to actively support the train when almost everybody involved wanted a stop at Disney? The land is right at the Interstate and is probably never going to be developed. Apparently Disney made the donation on the condition that they own and operate the station. Disney was probably planning on using subsidies to design, build, maintain and provide bus service to the station. If anything Disney keeping quiet was probably a good thing, because it held back criticism of this being an expensive shuttle that will primarily serve Disney.

The whole thing would take longer than Magical Express does picking you up outside your specific terminal, and may not even save time over picking up a rental car and driving over to your Disney hotel on the Beeline Expressway.

And more expensive, for a family, than a taxi.

Same empty arguments I refutted time after time.

A hypothetical shuttle that did not mesh with the actual proposal is not a real rebuttal.

^ To be fair, the Northeast Corridor is an old rail line rebuilt to modern specifications It's not as nice as the European counterparts, but for what it is, it does it's job very well.

Parts of the Northeast Corridor are operating at above 100% optimal capacity and with many parts beyond a state of good repair.

 

[AEfx]

Really? I drive if I can go four to five hundred miles in six hours. I figure with getting to the airport, getting through security, flight time, getting my bags, and a rental car, it takes about the same time, and costs more. I'd gladly take a train that gets me there.

That's why I drive to WDW.

It's about 20 hours, but it's 20 hours in comfort and entertainment in my own vehicle which I have control over, can stop as I wish, and do anything I want. Plus, I have my vehicle available for use so I'm not "trapped" anywhere and can shop, eat, and visit wherever I want.

This is opposed to spending six to eight hours dealing with airlines, security, restrictions, and feeling like a criminal in my own country because I bought an airline ticket to Disney World.

Easy choice for me.

 

[JEANYLASER]

Yeah me too! drive to wdw!

 

[njDizFan]

I don't want to re-hash all the old arguements that got the old thread closed, so I will try to keep it civil.

We can argue about the need and neccesity of HSR, and it's beneifits and flaws. But I think the issue is, as a country, we have a very narrow mind set for anything progressive.

We currently spend less than 2.5% of our budget on infrastructure. Ranking well below most developed countries in the world. This number is also much lower than anytime in America's history.

When the arguement is we don't have the money to spend. What were we thinking when we build the Golden Gate bridge or the Hoover dam during the depression? It's just priorities, not that we don't have the money.

The other arguement that these jobs they create are only temporary is also unjust. By definition all construction at least should be temporary. But what about the people it will take to operate and maintain and do the internal accounting etc..?

Sorry if I re-opened this wound but I want some forward thinking people making decisions that will help out our future.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The USA is not Europe , we do not like to use public transportation, we have always loved to drive and take road trips, and we do not have the large population density that would make having bullet trains covenient.

This is just a fallacy. Use of public transportation has much more to do with personal convenience than with culture. Every major European city is still jammed full of cars. Same goes for the cities of Japan. The same is true of New York, the rest of the Northeast Corridor and all the other American cities with significant public transportation infrastructure. Look up the aerial imagery of Disneyland Paris and see the massive parking lot. The parking structure at Tokyo Disney Resort was, if not still is, the largest parking structure in the world.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't want to re-hash all the old arguements that got the old thread closed, so I will try to keep it civil.

We can argue about the need and neccesity of HSR, and it's beneifits and flaws. But I think the issue is, as a country, we have a very narrow mind set for anything progressive.

We currently spend less than 2.5% of our budget on infrastructure. Ranking well below most developed countries in the world. This number is also much lower than anytime in America's history.

When the arguement is we don't have the money to spend. What were we thinking when we build the Golden Gate bridge or the Hoover dam during the depression? It's just priorities, not that we don't have the money.

The other arguement that these jobs they create are only temporary is also unjust. By definition all construction at least should be temporary. But what about the people it will take to operate and maintain and do the internal accounting etc..?

Sorry if I re-opened this wound but I want some forward thinking people making decisions that will help out our future.

Summed up well.

We aren't a progressive nation. We are a faltering one ... one living off past accomplishments and reputation while others pass us by ... still delusionally clinging to a belief we are No. 1 in everything ... very
analogous to WDW in a sad way.

Just like today's WDC would never build an EPCOT Center, today's USA leadership would likely say everything from the Hoover Dam to the Interstate Highway system to the Apollo program are just too expensive.

 

[The Mom]

I do believe that this thread has run its course. People who have interest might want to look into the proposed DC - Raleigh route, which, if successful, may lead to extension to FL. Which might eventually end in an Orlando to Tampa connection to an existing, successful, line.