The “wealthy” is not going to work

[Eric Graham]

I somewhat agree that Disney is pricing itself out for a lot of families. This may be a different way to look at how to save money on your trip. I bought into DVC on 08. It was a 10 year loan. Since then I have brokered out those points a few times and have pretty much made my money back, on top of now having a hotel room (pretty much anytime I want and can afford). That takes out such a huge hit on a vacation. Factor in that I am going to use 3 years worth of points next year; 2 bedroom savanna view at Jambo house, I really feel like I am in the black. My wife and I have not gone since early 2019 and not will finally be going next year; with our daughter. I am really looking for to this huge trip; but then being able to get away for a long weekend if we want to. I bought in when DVC had the Doorway to Dreams store front in the burbs of Chicago. I didnt want to take out that big of a loan, and it did become a pain for a few months, but now I am so happy that I have it

Me, personally, I would never invest in a time share like DVC. I do not put money into a product that has the ability to lock yourself into a commitment for X number of years and can set whatever future prices for fees on such product as it wants to whenever it wants. But that's just me. And the difficulty of getting out of a time share does not sit well with me. And what if I feign interest over time with going to Disney after X number of years.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I wouldn't worry. I've read somewhere that (checks notes) Disney is invincible.

Ya got me. True. TWDC and its theme parks are....... you know

 

[SteveAZee]

Me, personally, I would never invest in a time share like DVC. I do not put money into a product that has the ability to lock yourself into a commitment for X number of years and can set whatever future prices for fees on such product as it wants to whenever it wants. But that's just me. And the difficulty of getting out of a time share does not sit well with me. And what if I feign interest over time with going to Disney after X number of years.

You might want to look a little closer at DVC. I think you're arguments are correct for most timeshares, but:
- While you're locked into a commitment, the maintenance fees/dues increases are relatively well controlled and there's an active rental market so if you decide to stop going for a while you can easily rent your points (I've done so, easily, from both sides of the equation)
- Again, there's an active resellers market as well... numerous businesses focused primarily on buying/selling DVC contracts.
- If you lose interest (I assume that's what you mean by 'feign') over time, sell your contracts and move on. Most people are making money in the process.

I suspect that a lot of the demand for buying DVC or renting points is due to the high prices being charges for staying on property at the non-DVC resorts. Renting DVC points can put you into a comparable room for perhaps half the cost of the rack rate of the other resorts.

Just FYI.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But wait, who are you to say the costs now are NOT within reason?

The parks are not empty. Attendance is not on a downward trend, and leaving aside covid, it has not been trending down at least in the 6-7 years I have started paying attention to Disney again when we started taking our kids. In fact to read these message boards, you would think that Disney's main problem right now is that too many people can afford to go to the parks and they can't handle/don't have enough rides for the number of guests that are coming every day.

Based on the attendance figures, how do you come up with the idea that the costs aren't being kept within reason? That doesn't mean subjectively some people can't afford/don't want to pay for the higher prices. That's try for anything, there will always be some people who can just afford the price of something, and when it goes higher, they can't. Or there will be people who lose disposable income, or costs of essential items increase to the point where what was an affordable luxury item is no longer affordable. But all of the data over the past say 6-7 years is clearly showing the Disney's prices are affordable, as they keep selling them. Unless you are saying that A) the old middle class have stopped going to Disney and now all of a sudden all the rich people are suddenly Disney fans, or B) the line for who are considered wealthy has been lowered, I don't know how you can justify your statement. Sure, you can say subjectively that the cost is too much, for you....but the Market seems to totally disagree with the concept that the costs are out of line with demand

I guess it depends on who you ask., If you feel it is fine, then indeed do whatever you can to buy Chapek that island in the Caribbean, I decided not too. I know that we live in a instant gratification time, but this is something that will show up eventually, not tomorrow. Patience my friend, patience.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Me, personally, I would never invest in a time share like DVC. I do not put money into a product that has the ability to lock yourself into a commitment for X number of years and can set whatever future prices for fees on such product as it wants to whenever it wants. But that's just me. And the difficulty of getting out of a time share does not sit well with me. And what if I feign interest over time with going to Disney after X number of years.

lol, that's why we actually purchased into dvc because we wanted to lock into the ability to go to wdw and prepay the lodging cost.
you are right though, you must be comfortable with going to a particular spot. My cousin owns a marriott vacation club in cabo san lucas, they love it. they go every year and have done so for the last 25 years. now they go other places also but that's their happy place.
and I always tell folks they are not an "investment" they are a prepaid lodging plan. I would never pay the cash price that disney charges now to stay in a 2 bedroom villa in beach club or grand floridian

 

[BeanCounterBob]

My fees have not changed in the 14 years of owning it. Its not for everyone though. I bought into it because I was going all the time. Then I didnt go for about 7 years. So I was seeing it as a waste. I almost sold a few times but always backed out. Now that I have a family I am glad I got it and kept it. 14 years later I really feel that its to my benefit; but its really what you make of it. I am more into it for the rooms and not so much the perks. The discounts are nice, and I like going to the lounge in Epcot; but I havent taken advantage of many other perks yet. I will have to look at see whats active when we go next year

 

[eliza61nyc]

I guess it depends on who you ask., If you feel it is fine, then indeed do whatever you can to buy Chapek that island in the Caribbean, I decided not too. I know that we live in a instant gratification time, but this is something that will show up eventually, not tomorrow. Patience my friend, patience.

see @Goofyernmost , this is the type of hyperbole that I was talking to you about. Do you really assume that the poster goes to disney to support Chapek. Of course it does depend on who you ask but please believe most folks who go to wdw go their to have a great vacation with their family. they are not throwing caution to the wind and just doing what make them feel good.

 

[Goofyernmost]

see @Goofyernmost , this is the type of hyperbole that I was talking to you about. Do you really assume that the poster goes to disney to support Chapek. Of course it does depend on who you ask but please believe most folks who go to wdw go their to have a great vacation with their family. they are not throwing caution to the wind and just doing what make them feel good.

My goodness what a literal interpretation. It isn't close to hyperbole, it is a large part of reality that you are purposely supposed to not think about. Just a more colorful and in my mind more accurate description of following the money. Feeling good is what brought me to the place 45 times in 39 years, but after experiencing the beginnings it is easy to see the difference and frankly I don't want to work that hard to give someone money. It seems like prepaying a contractor to build your house and then when they stop half finished they hand you a hammer, charge you another $100.00 for it and then we say, well what is done is good enough to not ask for our money back for the rest because we think he must have kids to put through college.

 

[flynnibus]

Me, personally, I would never invest in a time share like DVC. I do not put money into a product that has the ability to lock yourself into a commitment for X number of years and can set whatever future prices for fees on such product as it wants to whenever it wants. But that's just me. And the difficulty of getting out of a time share does not sit well with me. And what if I feign interest over time with going to Disney after X number of years.

Tkmeshares are fine… it’s basically a hedge bet and unless the place gets wiped out… those future prices are never going down.

The instant deal breaker for me was simply the idea that admission/tickets were not part of the deal. So it changes from ‘going every cycle’ to ‘having to buy every cycle’. And i knew that puts you in the disadvantaged spot.

Of course disney now has essentially a fixed base of people who ‘have to buy tickets every week’… at whatever price they set.

 

[Eric Graham]

You might want to look a little closer at DVC. I think you're arguments are correct for most timeshares, but:
- While you're locked into a commitment, the maintenance fees/dues increases are relatively well controlled and there's an active rental market so if you decide to stop going for a while you can easily rent your points (I've done so, easily, from both sides of the equation)
- Again, there's an active resellers market as well... numerous businesses focused primarily on buying/selling DVC contracts.
- If you lose interest (I assume that's what you mean by 'feign') over time, sell your contracts and move on. Most people are making money in the process.

I suspect that a lot of the demand for buying DVC or renting points is due to the high prices being charges for staying on property at the non-DVC resorts. Renting DVC points can put you into a comparable room for perhaps half the cost of the rack rate of the other resorts.

Just FYI.

Great! Thank you for your input!

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I guess it depends on who you ask., If you feel it is fine, then indeed do whatever you can to buy Chapek that island in the Caribbean, I decided not too. I know that we live in a instant gratification time, but this is something that will show up eventually, not tomorrow. Patience my friend, patience.

Do you honestly not get it, or just understand your whole point is BS? Objectively looking at costs does not depend on who you ask. No one cares what you think something should cost. No one cares what I think something should cost. You look at the market. Absolutely no one cares that you don’t want to spend your money at Disney. (We will leave aside the absurdity of visiting a message board to discuss a place you have decided not to go to.). The discussion was is Disney now too costly? If you are selling out of a product or service, if there are people lining up to buy them up to your capacity (and some would say past What should be Disney’s capacity) then it’s objectively not overpriced/too costly.

As to your shwarmy things take time (I.e. I know I am wrong now, but maybe something will change) then if the market changes, you can fluctuate prices then to be in line with demand.

 

[M&M fan]

Hubby and I just sold our two DVC properties a few months ago and couldn't be happier. It's not worth it in the long run because yes, you never know what the fees will be each year, and you're paying for the full 50 years on that, and then the fact that you don't get a discount on tickets, which was something I thought of back then before buying but then started second guessing when we did go through with it. It just is not worth it. They make you think it's worth it when it isn't. Other timeshares at other places make more sense. Now if DVC offered half-off on tickets and maybe made a rule that you only pay maintenance fees for the first 25 years, then it might have made more sense. But in reality, it's not a good deal in the long run, even though the DVC fans think so. There's a reason why there's always so many resales on the market every year. Think about that. I'm glad we sold and got out quickly. Also me and hubby will never return to Disney World as it's just not worth the money anymore. Walt Disney would be very upset at what his company has turned into.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Do you honestly not get it, or just understand your whole point is BS? Objectively looking at costs does not depend on who you ask. No one cares what you think something should cost. No one cares what I think something should cost. You look at the market. Absolutely no one cares that you don’t want to spend your money at Disney. (We will leave aside the absurdity of visiting a message board to discuss a place you have decided not to go to.). The discussion was is Disney now too costly? If you are selling out of a product or service, if there are people lining up to buy them up to your capacity (and some would say past What should be Disney’s capacity) then it’s objectively not overpriced/too costly.

As to your shwarmy things take time (I.e. I know I am wrong now, but maybe something will change) then if the market changes, you can fluctuate prices then to be in line with demand.

Well, you could be right because this may come as a big surprise but I don't care a tinkers damn about what you think either. Maybe it's you that doesn't understand what I'm saying or you don't understand the concept of predictions based on demand, but whatever the case there is an ignore button that you can use or just simply don't read it and move on. Talk about smarmy!

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Well, you could be right because this may come as a big surprise but I don't care a tinkers damn about what you think either. Maybe it's you that doesn't understand what I'm saying or you don't understand the concept of predictions based on demand, but whatever the case there is an ignore button that you can use or just simply don't read it and move on. Talk about smarmy!

No your just moving goal posts once again. Your back must hurt. Could market demand change such that prices being charged now are considered too costly? Theoretically. I don’t know many luxury items that historically prices go down, but I guess it’s possible. Still has nothing at all to do with present day costs

 

[Eric Graham]

On these forums can you post something you bought that is neat that other people would enjoy? I don't work for the company. Just really fun!

 

[Eric Graham]

Sorry off topic.

 

[Eric Graham]

Without naming such company I mean.

 

[EngineerMom]

There is plenty of movement between economic classes. You will more likely than not be both "poor" and "wealthy" in your lifetime.

Talking about groups in generalities grossly misunderstands the progression through economic status of most Americans. You aren't entitled to a trip to Disney anyway.

It all depends on what you consider "wealthy"
Many people will be "poor" and comfortable in their lifetimes.
We have had times where one of us was unemployed, where we had to watch our pennies and other times we can take the family to Disney and enjoy eating out, etc.
But I know some people who are actually "wealthy". They don't have to think about doing things. They can just do what they want without ever worrying about paying for it. We have never had that. We think about how much things cost.

 

[SteveAZee]

That brings up a good question for this board, given the topic...

How do you define wealthy?

 

[Lilofan]

That brings up a good question for this board, given the topic...

How do you define wealthy?

High net worth with no debt is wealthy. One doctor who may have 6 figure salary but $600k in debt due to college and medical school debt would not be wealthy in my book.