It's marketed as a generational thing, so if you're living pretty much the same work lifestyle as your parents but can't give the same experiences to your kids, then I see why you would be angry. Not storming the gates and burning down Disney World angry, but angry enough to complain on a message board.Tell me about it!
I will say that is the genuine behind Disney marketing people now feel that they have to get to Disney at least once.
And I am stunned at how many people are personally, seriously mad that they can't afford to go. Do that many people here really get everything they want?
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The “wealthy” is not going to work
- Thread starter Trauma
- Start date
Brad Bishop
Well-Known Member
I still think that misses part of the equation.
Not able to afford to go is one thing. There will always be those who can't afford to go.
Once affordability is no longer part of the equation then the question is: Is it worth it to go? Do I get value?
I think that's where Disney has misstepped with regards to catering to the higher-end market. People on the upper end of wealth don't just foolishly part with their money. They still want to get value out of it. If you're offering them what they used to get at one price but now it's at much higher price but has more nickel and diming happening plus it being a lesser experience (food not as great, paper instead of cloth napkins at the fancier restaurants, reduced maintenance, reduced staff, reduced performers, paying to get on the rides, etc.) they're going to notice it and not be happy.
I can't have a local steakhouse, even if I serve some of the best steaks in town, and change it from $50/head to $200/head and change nothing else and expect that the wealthy "will just pay". I have to up my game. $300+/head at a restaurant gets into quaint / chef territory and it had better be an experience, not the same shtick that I was peddling at $50/head a year back. It certainly can't be a worse experience than what I was giving at $50/head AND at $300/head they're not going to be interested in a "towel charge" or a "table cloth fee" or a "commemorative fork and knife set for $100".
That's where I think Disney is right now and, at the same time, people are still lining up at the gate. Eventually something has to give.
I guess the real question is:
1) is this a bubble that will eventually burst once nostalgia wears off and enough people get annoyed
OR
2) will people just pay no matter what
Logic tells me it's #1. Reality, at least currently, tells me it's #2 (and Bob is right - even historically this has been the case, before the Bobs).
Not able to afford to go is one thing. There will always be those who can't afford to go.
Once affordability is no longer part of the equation then the question is: Is it worth it to go? Do I get value?
I think that's where Disney has misstepped with regards to catering to the higher-end market. People on the upper end of wealth don't just foolishly part with their money. They still want to get value out of it. If you're offering them what they used to get at one price but now it's at much higher price but has more nickel and diming happening plus it being a lesser experience (food not as great, paper instead of cloth napkins at the fancier restaurants, reduced maintenance, reduced staff, reduced performers, paying to get on the rides, etc.) they're going to notice it and not be happy.
I can't have a local steakhouse, even if I serve some of the best steaks in town, and change it from $50/head to $200/head and change nothing else and expect that the wealthy "will just pay". I have to up my game. $300+/head at a restaurant gets into quaint / chef territory and it had better be an experience, not the same shtick that I was peddling at $50/head a year back. It certainly can't be a worse experience than what I was giving at $50/head AND at $300/head they're not going to be interested in a "towel charge" or a "table cloth fee" or a "commemorative fork and knife set for $100".
That's where I think Disney is right now and, at the same time, people are still lining up at the gate. Eventually something has to give.
I guess the real question is:
1) is this a bubble that will eventually burst once nostalgia wears off and enough people get annoyed
OR
2) will people just pay no matter what
Logic tells me it's #1. Reality, at least currently, tells me it's #2 (and Bob is right - even historically this has been the case, before the Bobs).
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Perhaps it isn't really anger, but frustration and that feeling of helplessness and inability to afford something that should be at least semi-affordable. The world is pretty rosy through the eyes of people with sufficient funds to go there and think that everyone that deserves to go can afford it and the rest are just whining. Perhaps some empathy might be helpful in understanding the reactions of people instead of just saying, hey, I can go there so quit your crying. Disney has made it clear that in order to be complete and a good parent all must find a way to get to WDW or any other Disney Parks and those that can are just a more deserving person then those struggling to keep food and shelter available.Tell me about it!
I will say that is the genuine behind Disney marketing people now feel that they have to get to Disney at least once.
And I am stunned at how many people are personally, seriously mad that they can't afford to go. Do that many people here really get everything they want?
I know that even when Disneyland opened there was still a segment of the population that could not afford the entrance fee for their family, but that percentage is much larger today.
#2 is people get into more credit card debt to even go on vacation ( ie WDW ) making minimum payments monthly. A number of upper middle class income folks in my area fit into this category.
More than anything, this. Just because someone can afford something doesn't mean they keep buying it, even if they love it. People want to at least feel like they are getting value for what they spend. People mourn the loss of value just like others mourn the loss of being able to afford something at all.
Disney Glimpses
Well-Known Member
Disney is opening themselves up to a slew of volatility with their current approach. It's going to be really tough for them to unwind without looking desperate.
ppete1975
Well-Known Member
As long as Disney is Disney people will go.
BUT is Disney still Disney.
When most of us were kids Disney was all over the broadcast tv even when cable started they had the disney channel which was huge. Mickey and friends were everywhere. When a new ride opened there would be a special on ABC usually an hour long that wasnt a singing show. It showed the history of the ride development, construction and the story of the attraction. Go on youtube and look for the living seas as an example. Kids grew up since the davy crockett era on TV disney. Every kid wanted to meet Mickey and see the castle.
The world has changed, and I dont know how much Disney has kept up. There is a ton of competition for the little ones and Disney used to own their child hood (yes there was hanna barbara later on but that wasnt even close). Now to see Disney you go to Disney+ and the occasional movie. But does Mickey still resonate as much with the little ones? OR are the parents the ones with nostalgia.
Look at toys to see the other change, its all digital now. Physical toys such as Barbie, hot wheels and action figures are no longer what they were in popularity. Most hot wheels and star wars toys are bought by collectors.
Will kids still want to go see Mickey, will Disney own their attention as it has since the 50s. When that time goes away.. and older people stop going for nostalgia. Parents decide that they really dont need to take little suzie because their parents did....
Thats when disney might be in trouble. Also with world wide travel being so much cheaper that it used to be. Will competition for their attention (adults and children) make the ROI not worth the cost.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
I agree with your post, but this thread is about how Disney is catering to the wealthy. There are plenty of folks with money that will continue to bring their families to the Disney parks regardless the offerings.
Disney is not the only player in town catering to the wealthy. Within WDW property there is Golden Oak, Four Seasons, Waldorf Astoria , JW Marriott etc.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Agreed and all these have better accommodations at a lower price
but these folks will still show up at the park.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Right now, I am sticking with answer 2
Chapek is no fool. When he had a Disney stockholder conference recently the guests were set up and stayed at Four Seasons by Golden Oak.Agreed and all these have better accommodations at a lower price
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
??? so for some reason you under the misinformation that I can go to disney when I want to and how I want to. that I simply roll out of bed and grab the money bad. any trip I take is careful thought through and usually entails sacrificing somewhere else.
Actually when you were going, my family couldn't afford to go, so guess what we didn't go. we certainly did not get mad at Disney because it was out of our budget and we didn't get mad at others because they could afford it and we couldn't.
I'm sorry, I totally admit this attitude that you should be able to afford what you want just because you use to be able to get it is totally foreign to me. That could be simply a product of my upbringing. There are many many experiences and trips I would love to be able to do but unless that 550 million dollar powerball comes my way, they ain't happening. and you know what I'm pretty okay with that.
Let me ask you though, why should it be "Affordable" to anyone?? does that trickle down to everything? If I want to buy an audi does the volkswagen group have to make it affordable to me? I use to live in NYC, use to be able to afford it. I can no longer afford it so guess what.... I don't live there. I totally admit, I'm a full on "personal" responsibility type of gal, there were many years where my children heard the sentence, "there is no money tree in the backyard so no we will not be going to wdw". I am so happy that I was raised to believe that, that is perfectly okay.
and let's keep it real. Nothing at Disney, in Disney, around Disney necessary for a great childhood and yes I feel it's the parents responsibility to teach their kids that NOT Disney's to ensure they have a great one.
so yes, I do have empathy. i really feel bad for people who feel they are entitled to whatever they want just because they use to do it it must be frustrating for sure. Let me qualify that with non essential items.
But I will apologize, I definitely not trying to say "I can go screw you"
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Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
You are a good test case. You are Disney's core customer. You clearly have enough disposable income; the question is, will there ever be a time after your careful thought, that a WDW vacation is not worth it?
Even if there comes a time it's not worth it for you, my thinking is there are plenty more like you that will take your place.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Oh heck yeah, with LL it's a close thing. I'm not going until next year so I'm reserving judgment. Here's the thing Steve, if after next year I can't afford to go I WILL NOT get on line and complain how evil Disney is because I've been priced out.
I've already told our kids that we maybe selling our dvc because of the overall cost. I am so proud if them, not one of them is saying " but I'm supposed to go to Disney".
And actually back in the 90s we canceled many a trip. My late husband had just started his business and it wasn't turning a profit, I had just returned to the work place after being a stay at home mom. So while I have disposable cash NOW,
believe me there were many years when going to coney Island on the train was a treat. Again the difference is at no time did we blame DisneyI told this story before but my father was like you, he was not someone to ever think that he needed anything flashy or big, if he needed a car he would get it used and it would break down in the street, if we wanted to go on vacation we could go to the beach or maybe a local resort. We were middle class but he just did not like to spend. He also is a bit of a snob and well, Disney and Florida weren't for him.
It took years of us kids nagging him to get that Disney vacation, and we drove down and stayed at the veteran's hotel. The next year we went again and he paid for the Grand Floridian. The experience was just so stress free that he could admit it was worth it and even pay more.
ppete1975
Well-Known Member
But will the wealthy want to go? Or would they rather travel somewhere else. Would little suzie not care about disney so why go. I think its a huge shift we are seeing. Adults may be enamored with Disney than the kids. And will they get worse. If so why would the wealthy care to go, regardless of cost.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Here's my thinking, To the wealthy, they never think "is this worth the money".
Also, the wealthy will pay the big bucks for the highest possible experience; their travel agent will book the finest accommodations, they will book the VIP tours, VIP experiences, money is not an issue.
There are plenty of these folks and I think they will keep showing up.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I guess we aren't understanding each other. It doesn't matter if you have pile of money or not, it is that you have enough money or income to be able to sacrifice something else to pull together the money to go. That is a luxury that many do not have. I suppose they could give up eating, paying electricity bills, mortgages or rent, but they don't have the "extra" items or expenses that they can save by sacrificing them. That isn't a put down directed at you, it is just a difference. However, you are saying if you can't afford this then that is your bad luck, get over it. If you had read the post I did explaining that it probably isn't really anger, most understand that it is something that they put up with everyday. They are used to having old cars, they don't buy new clothes all the time. It is frustration that sounds like anger. Everyone's story is different, but it isn't just they don't save money, it's that they have no excess money to save.
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
The thing I keep thinking about, though, are attendance numbers. Magic Kingdom typically gets around 20 million visitors per year. Now, sure, some of those are duplicates. But that's still a lot of people. Either there are a heck of a lot more wealthy people in this country than we've been led to believe or middle class people are still figuring out ways to pay for it and thinking it's a good enough value to warrant doing so. Will that last? I don't know. But that seems to be the case for now.