The “wealthy” is not going to work

[Brad Bishop]

Something else the belongs in the nostalgia column:

Growing up I (and others here) had:
- Disney animated movies (they've never been good at live action movies)
- Wonderful World of Disney / Wonderful World of Color (TV)
- Mickey Mouse Club

My kids had:
- Disney Channel
- Decade of Disney (them building up the resorts)
- The Disney Renaissance w/ Little Mermaid, Beauty & The Beast, Lion King (then it tapers off)

These gave lots of exposure to both Disney characters and the parks and played heavily into nostalgia.

Kids born in 2000s, now becoming adults. What did they have? Maybe some left-overs from the Renaissance but we're talking now about:
- Disney Channel changes to Boy Meets World channel (less focus on characters and parks and more focus on ABC reruns and kid shows like Hanna Montana)
- A series of duds like, "Mars Needs Moms," and, "Home on the Range"
- Disney DID buy Star Wars and Marvel - that may be a pull

...I'm mainly thinking that as time has gone one Disney has been less of a member of family lives, at least than they were in the past, and the impact of TV has gone drastically down. The best thing that Disney has going for them today, in terms of promotion, is Vloggers on YouTube. I'm curious if that's enough to keep the nostalgia spell going.

Up through my kids there was a heavy push on not only current movies but classics like Snow White, Cinderella, etc. I don't see that today. It wouldn't surprise me if the average 20yo had never seen Snow White (yes, I know some 20yo will immediately post a reply saying, "I'm 20yo and I've seen Snow White!" (I don't think you're average).

Maybe it's a case of those older movies / characters fading into the distance while everything becomes Star Wars and Avengers. That seems like a pretty weak foot forward. Timely? Sure. Long lasting? Maybe. I think you need more than that to get nostalgia going.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I guess we aren't understanding each other. It doesn't matter if you have pile of money or not, it is that you have enough money or income to be able to sacrifice something else to pull together the money to go. That is a luxury that many do not have. I suppose they could give up eating, paying electricity bills, mortgages or rent, but they don't have the "extra" items or expenses that they can save by sacrificing them. That isn't a put down directed at you, it is just a difference. However, you are saying if you can't afford this then that is your bad luck, get over it. If you had read the post I did explaining that it probably isn't really anger, most understand that it is something that they put up with everyday. They are used to having old cars, they don't buy new clothes all the time. It is frustration that sounds like anger. Everyone's story is different, but it isn't just they don't save money, it's that they have no excess money to save.

I totally get that, so here's my disconnect. You always make it sound like that situation is a new reality caused by Disney.
You perpetuate this myth that back in the day anyone and everyone could afford a Disney vacation. Never in the history of wdw has that been true. My parents couldn't afford it, the one time we went was tacked onto a trip to visit grandma in savanna

I'm not saying bad luck at all, what I am saying that if one cannot afford a trip or anything considered a luxury there is no reason to be angry and there diffently is no reason to be frustrated at the company.

I totally get frugality and living paycheck to paycheck, I was a professional at stretching a meal with beans.
If you look at my post you will see I absolutely said I was not taking about essentials.

Sorry Disney is not an essential IMO. Not even close.

It's all good, I've said a number of times, there absolutely will come a day where wdw will be out of my budget. I plan on using it as an opportunity to do other things and not rail against how unfair Disney is.

Again I am distinguishing solely about a trip to Disney nit life essentials

So maybe the difference is not the understanding of what it takes financially to get to Disney and more a difference of how one chooses to react

 

[SteveAZee]

Here's my thinking, To the wealthy, they never think "is this worth the money".

Also, the wealthy will pay the big bucks for the highest possible experience; their travel agent will book the finest accommodations, they will book the VIP tours, VIP experiences, money is not an issue.

There are plenty of these folks and I think they will keep showing up.

Perhaps this is true for some wealthy. Clearly the things you mention... someone's paying for the tours and finest accommodations.

Perhaps, also, there are wealthy people who've gotten wealthy for a variety of reasons, including not spending money on things that aren't worth it. To say that they never think "is this worth the money"... I believe is an overreach. It's like saying poor people never try hard enough to succeed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I totally get that, so here's my disconnect. You always make it sound like that situation is a new reality caused by Disney.
You perpetuate this myth that back in the day anyone and everyone could afford a Disney vacation. Never in the history of wdw has that been true. My parents couldn't afford it, the one time we went was tacked onto a trip to visit grandma in savanna

I'm not saying bad luck at all, what I am saying that if one cannot afford a trip or anything considered a luxury there is no reason to be angry and there diffently is no reason to be frustrated at the company.

I totally get frugality and living paycheck to paycheck, I was a professional at stretching a meal with beans.
If you look at my post you will see I absolutely said I was not taking about essentials.

Sorry Disney is not an essential IMO. Not even close.

It's all good, I've said a number of times, there absolutely will come a day where wdw will be out of my budget. I plan on using it as an opportunity to do other things and not rail against how unfair Disney is.

Again I am distinguishing solely about a trip to Disney nit life essentials

So maybe the difference is not the understanding of what it takes financially to get to Disney and more a difference of how one chooses to react

Well, they raised the prices and decided to charge for everything except the air we breath all the while accumulating the biggest profit ever. They are the ones that priced so many out that once were regular customers. Those poorer people did not set the price that excluded them did they. It is a very legal maneuver but that didn't mean that it didn't hurt a lot of people so that they could be swimming in cash. They just did it and have been doing that for the last 4 years at least. No, Disney is not responsible for the fact that someone has less money, but they sure as hell didn't do anything to try and keep the costs within reason. For that they are responsible.

 

[disneyfireman]

This thread makes no sense...You dont have to be anywhere near wealthy to visit WDW or DL. Hers a hint...work OT, save..dont buy 8.00 coffee. Dont buy a 1000 phone every year. Nonsense that its only for wealthy. Its only for people with like a little financial common sense.

 

[Lilofan]

This thread makes no sense...You dont have to be anywhere near wealthy to visit WDW or DL. Hers a hint...work OT, save..dont buy 8.00 coffee. Dont buy a 1000 phone every year. Nonsense that its only for wealthy. Its only for people with like a little financial common sense.

Little financial sense is what credit card companies and the US economy loves. These areas thrives with these slaves to debt mentality and lifestyle.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Well, they raised the prices and decided to charge for everything except the air we breath all the while accumulating the biggest profit ever. They are the ones that priced so many out that once were regular customers. Those poorer people did not set the price that excluded them did they. It is a very legal maneuver but that didn't mean that it didn't hurt a lot of people so that they could be swimming in cash. They just did it and have been doing that for the last 4 years at least. No, Disney is not responsible for the fact that someone has less money, but they sure as hell didn't do anything to try and keep the costs within reason. For that they are responsible.

oh I totally agree with you on that. but their job isn't to keep cost within reason, their job is to make as much money for their investors as humanely possible. They are supposed to accumulate profit, it's a major corporation not a 501C.
They will continue doing so until they see it negatively effect the bottom line.

 

[Lilofan]

oh I totally agree with you on that. but their job isn't to keep cost within reason, their job is to make as much money for their investors as humanely possible. They are supposed to accumulate profit, it's a major corporation not a 501C.
They will continue doing so until they see it negatively effect the bottom line.

If it is cost within reason one should go shopping at Dollar Tree / Store etc if the items still do go for a dollar.

 

[eliza61nyc]

If it is cost within reason one should go shopping at Dollar Tree / Store etc if the items still do go for a dollar.

Nope dollar tree around here now has signs saying $1.25 and up

 

[flynnibus]

And I am stunned at how many people are personally, seriously mad that they can't afford to go. Do that many people here really get everything they want?

Missing in that generalization is the fact these people were frequent customers before... who used to be the target demographic. You're ignoring that the pricing is the only thing changing that is causing the exclusion... not the person, nor the product itself.

 

[flynnibus]

Something else the belongs in the nostalgia column:

Growing up I (and others here) had:
- Disney animated movies (they've never been good at live action movies)
- Wonderful World of Disney / Wonderful World of Color (TV)
- Mickey Mouse Club

My kids had:
- Disney Channel
- Decade of Disney (them building up the resorts)
- The Disney Renaissance w/ Little Mermaid, Beauty & The Beast, Lion King (then it tapers off)

These gave lots of exposure to both Disney characters and the parks and played heavily into nostalgia.

Kids born in 2000s, now becoming adults. What did they have? Maybe some left-overs from the Renaissance but we're talking now about:
- Disney Channel changes to Boy Meets World channel (less focus on characters and parks and more focus on ABC reruns and kid shows like Hanna Montana)
- A series of duds like, "Mars Needs Moms," and, "Home on the Range"
- Disney DID buy Star Wars and Marvel - that may be a pull

...I'm mainly thinking that as time has gone one Disney has been less of a member of family lives, at least than they were in the past, and the impact of TV has gone drastically down. The best thing that Disney has going for them today, in terms of promotion, is Vloggers on YouTube. I'm curious if that's enough to keep the nostalgia spell going.

Uhh.. you forgot entire empires like

Toy Story
Cars
Frozen
Star Wars
Marvel

Up through my kids there was a heavy push on not only current movies but classics like Snow White, Cinderella, etc. I don't see that today. It wouldn't surprise me if the average 20yo had never seen Snow White (yes, I know some 20yo will immediately post a reply saying, "I'm 20yo and I've seen Snow White!" (I don't think you're average).

A bit part of that is there is no longer a single broadcast that needs to be filled constantly. People can switch streams on a whim.. that changes how you 'fill airtime'

Maybe it's a case of those older movies / characters fading into the distance while everything becomes Star Wars and Avengers. That seems like a pretty weak foot forward. Timely? Sure. Long lasting? Maybe. I think you need more than that to get nostalgia going.

I think you are struggling to accept Disney of your childhood is not the same as today.

Just like the generation before knew Disney as the shorts and features.. and the next generation knew the Live Action + features... and then the 80s generation knew a mix of the old and the new.. and the 90s kids pretty much knew exclusively the TV+ features world.. etc

Shorts died because their place in the entertainment industry went away. Times change... and the format and content will continue to change as well.

 

[Goofyernmost]

oh I totally agree with you on that. but their job isn't to keep cost within reason, their job is to make as much money for their investors as humanely possible. They are supposed to accumulate profit, it's a major corporation not a 501C.
They will continue doing so until they see it negatively effect the bottom line.

There is a difference between profit and obscene profit. It doesn't seem to be a problem right now, but I really believe that the day will come where the bottom line will be harmed. I, of course, am not clairvoyant but there is a ceiling.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Going to a Disney property or staying at a Disney version of a "Deluxe" resort or eating at the high-end eateries on the Disney properties are not indicators of any wealth. There are people with the financial wherewithal to go to Disney properties multiple times a year without a blink and then there are people that take out loans, save money over extended periods of time and max out their credit cards then stay in the "economy" accommodations, eat cheaply and are frugal about what they buy. The value of going to a Disney property is all in the eyes of the guests. To some its expensive and overpriced for what is now offered to others it is well worth it regardless of cost. The Disney Co. does not care simply because guests, visitors, customers (or whatever descriptor you want to use) merely represent monetary resources to be exploited. How or why people come up with the money is not Disney's problem. Regardless of how the Disney Co. prices its offerings one fact stands out, the truly wealthy people do not view Disney offerings as high-end. Then there is the decline in "going to Disney is a rite of passage / something every child should experience". So yes, "The "Wealthy" is not going to work", definitely not long term and with the current decline in product quality.

 

[eliza61nyc]

There is a difference between profit and obscene profit. It doesn't seem to be a problem right now, but I really believe that the day will come where the bottom line will be harmed. I, of course, am not clairvoyant but there is a ceiling.

I started my career with a mega Corp ExxonMobil eons ago, they had a saying "there is no such thing as too much profit " I guess since my whole life has been spent in the chemical/petroleum industry I know that, that statement is pretty much how they all think.

You are absolutely right, I totally agree there is a ceiling that's a good thing when it happens naturally. At some point folks will say the product is not worth the cost, and attendance will drop.
It will be interesting and painful. Unfortunately stockholders tend to be greedy green eyed monsters and very short sighted.

 

[Eric Graham]

Disney is catering to the wealthy.

They don’t want the middle class.

They can upcharge all they want the wealthy will pay for it!

These are things I see here daily to explain away the fiscal policy of the mousetrap.

Now let’s use a liberal definition of the word “wealthy” as a household making 200k a year or more.

That puts us somewhere around 26 million households in the states. I’m aware that the Mouse gets overseas visitors, but they seriously expect 30% of the households to not only visit but repeat visit on a yearly basis?

Let’s not forgot the more $$$ people make the more they expect. When your used to the Four Seasons the Contemporary is going to seem lacking.

It’s often discussed here that Disney can’t fail. It’s impossible.

However the idea that the “wealthy” are going to carry this company is ridiculous.

It has to be the middle class.

What’s the long term game plan?

What happens if the recession does come?

I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts.

I believe Disney in my opinion caters to a great different spectrum of people. There are those that maybe go to Disney once and that's all that they can afford which is wonderful or others who can afford the comfort of going multiple times. It all depends on the person. My wife and I have gone a few times. Disney has always had a special place in my heart. I'm usually an ambassador of Disney when I speak to others. And when I talk about Disney I discuss how it has different price tiers to accommodate a great diversity of people. Whether it be value up to deluxe resort or DVC etc. And I'm quick to point out how that Disney has a credit card where you can use it to get a trip anytime you go to Disney for 0% at 6 months interest free and accumulate points along the way. Also, how Disney can often go on sale. I believe if there is a recession that Disney will react to market demand and offer more deals to the park. These are my thoughts on the subject. Thanks.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Perhaps this is true for some wealthy. Clearly the things you mention... someone's paying for the tours and finest accommodations.

Perhaps, also, there are wealthy people who've gotten wealthy for a variety of reasons, including not spending money on things that aren't worth it. To say that they never think "is this worth the money"... I believe is an overreach. It's like saying poor people never try hard enough to succeed.

Valid point. Will they lose enough of these guests to make a difference? Time will tell.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Uhh.. you forgot entire empires like

Toy Story
Cars
Frozen
Star Wars
Marvel



A bit part of that is there is no longer a single broadcast that needs to be filled constantly. People can switch streams on a whim.. that changes how you 'fill airtime'



I think you are struggling to accept Disney of your childhood is not the same as today.

Just like the generation before knew Disney as the shorts and features.. and the next generation knew the Live Action + features... and then the 80s generation knew a mix of the old and the new.. and the 90s kids pretty much knew exclusively the TV+ features world.. etc

Shorts died because their place in the entertainment industry went away. Times change... and the format and content will continue to change as well.

He also forgot things like Finding Nemo, Moanna, The Pirates of the Caribbean series, High School Musical.

And I think he drastically discounts the modern day Disney channel offerings both animated cartoons and live action. I would put the Descendants Franchise, and Zombies up against anything that was offered on the Disney channel back in the 80/90s (though personal fav nothing beats Kids Incorporated.)

Further, while in arguably different mediums (and I agree it's very difficult to compare modern entertainment usage in a web/streaming age to 80/90 network cable model) I see a pretty strong similarity between the 80's/90's Justin Timberlake, Christina Aquilara, Britney Spears, Disney kids to pop culture transition, as we see now with Zendaya, Sophia Carson, Dove Cameron, ect.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Well, they raised the prices and decided to charge for everything except the air we breath all the while accumulating the biggest profit ever. They are the ones that priced so many out that once were regular customers. Those poorer people did not set the price that excluded them did they. It is a very legal maneuver but that didn't mean that it didn't hurt a lot of people so that they could be swimming in cash. They just did it and have been doing that for the last 4 years at least. No, Disney is not responsible for the fact that someone has less money, but they sure as hell didn't do anything to try and keep the costs within reason. For that they are responsible.

But wait, who are you to say the costs now are NOT within reason?

The parks are not empty. Attendance is not on a downward trend, and leaving aside covid, it has not been trending down at least in the 6-7 years I have started paying attention to Disney again when we started taking our kids. In fact to read these message boards, you would think that Disney's main problem right now is that too many people can afford to go to the parks and they can't handle/don't have enough rides for the number of guests that are coming every day.

Based on the attendance figures, how do you come up with the idea that the costs aren't being kept within reason? That doesn't mean subjectively some people can't afford/don't want to pay for the higher prices. That's try for anything, there will always be some people who can just afford the price of something, and when it goes higher, they can't. Or there will be people who lose disposable income, or costs of essential items increase to the point where what was an affordable luxury item is no longer affordable. But all of the data over the past say 6-7 years is clearly showing the Disney's prices are affordable, as they keep selling them. Unless you are saying that A) the old middle class have stopped going to Disney and now all of a sudden all the rich people are suddenly Disney fans, or B) the line for who are considered wealthy has been lowered, I don't know how you can justify your statement. Sure, you can say subjectively that the cost is too much, for you....but the Market seems to totally disagree with the concept that the costs are out of line with demand

 

[SteveAZee]

Valid point. Will they lose enough of these guests to make a difference? Time will tell.

I wouldn't worry. I've read somewhere that (checks notes) Disney is invincible.

 

[BeanCounterBob]

I somewhat agree that Disney is pricing itself out for a lot of families. This may be a different way to look at how to save money on your trip. I bought into DVC on 08. It was a 10 year loan. Since then I have brokered out those points a few times and have pretty much made my money back, on top of now having a hotel room (pretty much anytime I want and can afford). That takes out such a huge hit on a vacation. Factor in that I am going to use 3 years worth of points next year; 2 bedroom savanna view at Jambo house, I really feel like I am in the black. My wife and I have not gone since early 2019 and not will finally be going next year; with our daughter. I am really looking for to this huge trip; but then being able to get away for a long weekend if we want to. I bought in when DVC had the Doorway to Dreams store front in the burbs of Chicago. I didnt want to take out that big of a loan, and it did become a pain for a few months, but now I am so happy that I have it