News Test Track to be reimagined

SplashJacket

SplashJacket

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I don't think that's really a fair comparison.

Regardless, EPCOT was at its most successful when it existed in that form, so the argument that it needed more variety isn't really backed up by evidence. They keep adding more thrill rides and it keeps not working.
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Many video games have very repetitive gameplay loops, but their fans still love them because the core gameplay is strong. That’s not to say those games could benefit from swapping some of that repetitive gameplay with fresh, new, different gameplay to keep players engaged and interested.

OG Epcot was very repetitive but its attractions were strong, so people loved them. That’s not to say it couldn’t benefit from more variety.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
I only visited "classic" Epcot once, I visited in 1985 but not again until 2009. If I had been going on a regular basis I would have preferred a larger variety in the types of rides.
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Disney shouldn't design for people going on a regular basis, though (and I don't think they do).

People are going to get bored with certain attractions no matter how good they are if they are visiting several times a year.

I understand the point people are making, I just don't think it holds up based on the actual evidence. It also apparently isn't an issue for the large number of parks that currently exist with little to no variety in the ride offerings.

More importantly (and this is probably the biggest issue)... they could have increased ride variety through additions instead of replacements. Not that I'm suggesting that all of the original EPCOT rides could still exist today -- some would be wildly outdated, which is the reason they were losing popularity in the first place -- but the park would be much better today if they stuck with the original pavilion concepts with updated attractions.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
UNCgolf said:
I understand the point people are making, I just don't think it holds up based on the actual evidence. It also apparently isn't an issue for the large number of parks that currently exist with little to no variety in the ride offerings.
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Maybe we are talking about two different things. When I talk about the lack of "variety" in the original park, I mean a mix of different ride systems so you get visceral differences in the rides. The original Epcot rides provided a lot of variety in what you saw an heard, but not in what you felt.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
Maybe we are talking about two different things. When I talk about the lack of "variety" in the original park, I mean a mix of different ride systems so you get visceral differences in the rides. The original Epcot rides provided a lot of variety in what you saw an heard, but not in what you felt.
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No, we're talking about the same thing -- just different opinions on it. To me, a park that's a bunch of unthemed roller coasters has little to no variety. A difference in feeling is far less interesting than a difference in content.

I.e., I found a lot more variety in original EPCOT than I find at a Six Flags.
 
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Jayspency

Jayspency

Active Member
In the Parks
No
doctornick said:
One thing though that I will say about classic Epcot is that the actually had pavilions - areas with multiple related activities. While I think the rides needed to have some better variety of experiences, they should still have more robust and cohesive pavilions. No reason why M:S couldn’t have an area or show devoted to space travel (not just a kiddie play area) or some more in-depth transportation exhibits in TT and so on. And we list the upstairs Imagination. And of course WoL which had a movie and a show and a ride. Why isn’t there “more” in all that space in Cosmic Rewind? (And I absolutely adore that ride, but there still could be additional “stuff” there.)

That to me is the bigger issue with how FW changed from its origins.
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More pre/post shows!
 
WDWFREAK53

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
SplashJacket said:
Many video games have very repetitive gameplay loops, but their fans still love them because the core gameplay is strong. That’s not to say those games could benefit from swapping some of that repetitive gameplay with fresh, new, different gameplay to keep players engaged and interested.

OG Epcot was very repetitive but its attractions were strong, so people loved them. That’s not to say it couldn’t benefit from more variety.
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But, to continue with your video game analogy...
Those old "repetitive gameplay loops" in video games would sometimes mix it up a bit and have a different type of level or "bonus level" which would break it up, and those were usually the most remembered of the games because they WERE different.

ie:
BattleToads. That level where you rode the speeders sticks out more than any other level.
TMNT...the swimming levels were you disable the bombs.
Mario 3: The bonuses that were like a slot machine
Sonic 3: The bonus levels where you ran on a sphere and tried to collect the blue balls
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
C33Mom said:
I assume we are going to keep getting more pre/post shows because the “show” allows Disney to keep you in what is effectively the queue for 15-25m, even after it’s sold you a fastpass, especially when there’s an unavoidable queue post show (Cosmic Rewind, Test Track, RotR, Tower of Terror, Dinosaur…).
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Pre-shows do not extend your time in a queue. They're to entertain you and set-up the 'world' of the ride while you're waiting.

If you're in a pre-show, you couldn't advance if it were to suddenly stop. There are people ahead of you waiting to get on the ride. A pre-show skip doesn't advance you ahead of them. You still have to wait for all them to get on the ride and go before you can.

For example, you can't skip the 'scan' room on Flight of Passage because there's a group of people in the totally-not-Sigourney-Weaver prep room. And you can't skip that prep room because the ride is running for the previous group.

And so, if you're waiting your turn... here's a pre-show show to entertain you...
 
A

andre85

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
Pre-shows do not extend your time in a queue.
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They do in the sense that they delay the merge point of LL and stand-by, causing even lightning lane users to wait for some time when they wouldn't have to otherwise, which I believe is what the poster was getting at. Consider how Big Thunder is practically walk-on with lightning lane due to the lack of a pre-show
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
andre85 said:
They do in the sense that they delay the merge point of LL and stand-by, causing even lightning lane users to wait for some time when they wouldn't have to otherwise, which I believe is what the poster was getting at. Consider how Big Thunder is practically walk-on with lightning lane due to the lack of a pre-show
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Lightning Lane is not a skip-to-the front since all LLs merge with Standby (or VQ). There's always a merger.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
When SWGE first opened I was in the park one evening, ROTR had not opened yet, and there was a 25 minute posted wait time for single rider for Smugglers Run. So I joined the Queue... not knowing that the Queue completely skips the pre-show and also any sort of storyline information you need to understand the attraction... Basically it was through a door and up a staircase and series of unthemed hallways, then bam you walk into the ship waiting area.... If I had known I might have waited in the 45 minute line... It was not a good first impression, and the actual wait time was closer to an hour...
 
SplashJacket

SplashJacket

Well-Known Member
WDWFREAK53 said:
But, to continue with your video game analogy...
Those old "repetitive gameplay loops" in video games would sometimes mix it up a bit and have a different type of level or "bonus level" which would break it up, and those were usually the most remembered of the games because they WERE different.

ie:
BattleToads. That level where you rode the speeders sticks out more than any other level.
TMNT...the swimming levels were you disable the bombs.
Mario 3: The bonuses that were like a slot machine
Sonic 3: The bonus levels where you ran on a sphere and tried to collect the blue balls
Click to expand...
I think we’re arguing the same thing, didn’t make my post clear enough. OG Epcot was still loved even though it was repetitive, but it could’ve been better with more variety.
 
SplashJacket

SplashJacket

Well-Known Member
andre85 said:
Right, there's always a merge at some point. But are the rides with pre-shows not generally earlier/longer than those without? (I'll admit I haven't run the numbers, but I would be surprised if that weren't the case!)
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Yes. Pre-shows also can extend wait in the rare occasion where the line is empty.

This really only matters near close and at open. If there’s a 5 minute pre-show, guests are hitting the ride 5-minutes later. 5 minutes doesn’t seem like a lot, but for a ride like Guardians, if there’s capacity is 2000/hour that means 166 less guests can ride / day. Per restart, that also means 166 less guests.

Overall, pre shows are good, but in the operational situations and rare scenarios where the wait is less than the pre-show, it does add to the wait.

Also as you mentioned, attractions with pre shoes have earlier pre-shoes, so Lightning Lane guests wait longer. Compare Tower of Terror post merge wait to Everest.
 
Br0ckford

Br0ckford

Premium Member
MisterPenguin said:
Pre-shows do not extend your time in a queue. They're to entertain you and set-up the 'world' of the ride while you're waiting.

If you're in a pre-show, you couldn't advance if it were to suddenly stop. There are people ahead of you waiting to get on the ride. A pre-show skip doesn't advance you ahead of them. You still have to wait for all them to get on the ride and go before you can.

For example, you can't skip the 'scan' room on Flight of Passage because there's a group of people in the totally-not-Sigourney-Weaver prep room. And you can't skip that prep room because the ride is running for the previous group.

And so, if you're waiting your turn... here's a pre-show show to entertain you...
Click to expand...
🤣🤣 this right here
 
C

C33Mom

Well-Known Member
I think @andre85 did a better job clarifying my point— when there is no pre-show, LL and VIP tours get upset if they spend much more than 5m in line. With pre-shows, LL/VIP users accept that they may wait upwards of 20m before boarding.

I agree that pre shows don’t extend lines for regular non LL users or waits overall, but it’s good for Disney if they can keep LL users in some lines longer. It also probably discourages people from using LLs for rides they don’t really want, even if they can get LLMP availability, because it’s a bigger time commitment.
 

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