TEA Attendance Report Now due June 3rd

[maxairmike]

Is this based on inside knowledge at URO or WDW or just the metrics of DHS/DAK daily park capacity vs. yearly attendance? I don't mean to question you, but it just doesn't make any sense. I'm flummoxed as to why TEA would let TWDC get away with straight up lying about attendance when it would be a very easy to disprove the numbers by someone with a bit of inside knowledge of park capacity. If it's just data manipulation in a way to make attendance at WDW appear more favorable, I don't understand why UNI, being unwilling to use the same tactics, wouldn't publically call out TWDC and TEA to either discredit the report or force TEA to report more accurate numbers.

Because the TEA numbers mean as much to the companies as Amusement Today's Golden Ticket awards. I don't believe that either resort actually provides TEA with actual numbers, given how closely guarded they seem to prefer to hold those. The numbers are estimates, and aren't usually used in the press to pit one against another, they're generally used as pointless comparisons that are quickly glossed over if any other park's numbers are used at all.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The numbers are not calculated by the TEA, who is essentially the client paying for the report. The numbers are put together by AECOM Economics who got into this business by purchasing Economic Research Associates, the company founded by Harrison "Buzz" Price. Their entire business depends on accurately reporting these types of numbers.

There must be some desire amongst Disney, Universal, SeaWorld, Merlin Entertainments, etc. for this report to continue as they are all members of the TEA. They could have just easily pushed for the TEA to not continue the reports when Amusement Business folded.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Serious question. Does anybody know how the TEA / EACOM number are determined?

Ask and yee shall recieve..... (The same way we do. Any darn way they can.)

Inclusion in the annual Theme Index is a benchmark of success among operators. AECOM obtains the figures used to create the TEA/AECOM Theme Index through a variety of sources, including statistics furnished directly by the operators, historical numbers, financial reports, the investment banking community and local tourism organizations, among others.

To be included in the study, a facility in general must be gated (entry ticket required). North American parks must have annual visits above one million. To be included on the top chains list, a chain operator must have theme parks in its portfolio.

Every year TEA and AECOM hear from parks desiring to share their attendance increases and earn a place on the list. Operators who believe their properties should be included in the Theme Index are encouraged to contact the AECOM office in their region, after studying the current edition of the Theme Index and familiarizing themselves with the criteria. The more feedback and information received, the more accurate this report will become.

 

[PhotoDave219]

If Universal had real data showing that they had more people in parks they would release it.... They want it as bad as anyone.

The only problem with that is it would require an honest release on the part of Disney about their #s. On something that is considered so secretive, I would be skeptical of both releases.

My sincere guess is that they didnt want to release it on the last day of IPW.

One of those "Going to be polite, dont wanna steal another organization's thunder" type deals.

 

[khale1970]

The numbers are not calculated by the TEA, who is essentially the client paying for the report. The numbers are put together by AECOM Economics who got into this business by purchasing Economic Research Associates, the company founded by Harrison "Buzz" Price. Their entire business depends on accurately reporting these types of numbers.

There must be some desire amongst Disney, Universal, SeaWorld, Merlin Entertainments, etc. for this report to continue as they are all members of the TEA. They could have just easily pushed for the TEA to not continue the reports when Amusement Business folded.

Now I'm confused again. If these companies care enough to maintain membership in the TEA and AECOM has a business imperative to report the numbers accurately, then I'm back to the same question. Why would TEA/AECOM accept obvious lies or allow the data to be manipulated by TWDC, and if they do choose to allow this to happen why would UNI/SW/Merlin, etc continue as members of the TEA.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Now I'm confused again. If these companies care enough to maintain membership in the TEA and AECOM has a business imperative to report the numbers accurately, then I'm back to the same question. Why would TEA/AECOM accept obvious lies or allow the data to be manipulated by TWDC, and if they do choose to allow this to happen why would UNI/SW/Merlin, etc continue as members of the TEA.

You're operating under the assumption that there are obvious lies and not just issues with the methodology that are complicated by a multi-park resort. If I walk into Disney's Hollywood Studios and walk out, I'm still an entry click. What is quoted in the report of AECOM's methods is not a detailed report on their specific methodology, just a vague overview.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

With how short the waits at AK generally are, I'd have to agree. A park with 10 million+ guests per year that only has 4 substantial rides (5 if you count Primeval Whirl) and 3 shows shouldn't have waits less than a hour for the vast majority of the day.

I really count AK having 7 rides. I counted Everest, Kilimanjaro Safari, dinosaur, Kali River Rapids, Primeval Whirl, Triceratop spin and Wild life Express although I don't do all of them.

 

[khale1970]

You're operating under the assumption that there are obvious lies and not just issues with the methodology that are complicated by a multi-park resort. If I walk into Disney's Hollywood Studios and walk out, I'm still an entry click. What is quoted in the report of AECOM's methods is not a detailed report on their specific methodology, just a vague overview.

Thanks for the response. By obvious lies I was referencing an earlier post by @GLaDOS that said capacity at DHS precluded attendance numbers over 10M. If that is the case and TWDC allows that number to be published then I call that an obvious lie to those in the know even if veiled to the rest of us. Because you indicate that the metric used is entry clicks no matter length of stay, park capacity isn't the issue if people come and go fairly quickly like they tend to do now days at DHS. Throw in the hoppers popping in for the Frozen stuff last summer and it seems like they'd not have any problem getting to 10M+. Based on that the obvious lie question was an overreach on my part and I should have just let it stand with data manipulation.

 

[s8film40]

I agree I think park hopping skews these numbers. One interesting thing could be the effect the Hogwarts Express has on this, will each person riding the train contribute to higher numbers for both Universal parks? If so this could show a huge increase for Universal.

 

[khale1970]

I agree I think park hopping skews these numbers. One interesting thing could be the effect the Hogwarts Express has on this, will each person riding the train contribute to higher numbers for both Universal parks? If so this could show a huge increase for Universal.

Good point as a guest who rides the HE two or three times would show up as 3 or 4 clicks. Maybe UNI will pass DHS/DAK this year in the "fudged" numbers as well as the real numbers this year.

 

[Hula Popper]

I feel bad for those that are repeat visitors and go to DHS through lunch.

It's bizarre that you would feel bad for people who are choosing to do something they want to do based on their own, individual, personal preferences.

 

[BernardandBianca]

I really count AK having 7 rides. I counted Everest, Kilimanjaro Safari, dinosaur, Kali River Rapids, Triceratop spin and Wild life Express although I don't do all of them.

Um, you only identified 6 attractions.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Um, you only identified 6 attractions.

He forgot Primeval Whirl.

Add the 2 from Avatar and it'll be 8. Then AK will be 3-4 rides away from being a genuine full-day park, even if you don't do all of the smaller experiences.

 

[Hula Popper]

With how short the waits at AK generally are, I'd have to agree. A park with 10 million+ guests per year that only has 4 substantial rides (5 if you count Primeval Whirl) and 3 shows shouldn't have waits less than a hour for the vast majority of the day.

Except that when you talk to people who love Animal Kingdom, many talk about how they enjoy walking the animal trails, and taking in the Tree of Life and other scenery. Plus, obviously WDW is a magnet for families with young kids - young kids love the Boneyard and some of the other kid oriented attractions and entertainment.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

He forgot Primeval Whirl.

Add the 2 from Avatar and it'll be 8. Then AK will be 3-4 rides away from being a genuine full-day park, even if you don't do all of the smaller experiences.

I actually didn't forgot about Primeval Whirl as ride, but I actually forgot to type it since I was in a rush.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Except that when you talk to people who love Animal Kingdom, many talk about how they enjoy walking the animal trails, and taking in the Tree of Life and other scenery. Plus, obviously WDW is a magnet for families with young kids - young kids love the Boneyard and some of the other kid oriented attractions and entertainment.

And... The shows which I believe are the best of all 4 parks.

 

[ChrisFL]

I agree I think park hopping skews these numbers. One interesting thing could be the effect the Hogwarts Express has on this, will each person riding the train contribute to higher numbers for both Universal parks? If so this could show a huge increase for Universal.

Especially since there is a different experience in each direction on the Hogwart's Express, and people HAVE to go through the turnstyles before hopping back on board I believe. Interesting indeed.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't believe the numbers. From what I understand DHS would have to be near capacity every day of the year to be above 10 million.

I think you're discounting the impact of park hopping. If Joe Tourist goes to DAK for two hours, DHS for four hours, and Epcot for Food and Wine all in the same day, the TEA is going to report that as one "guest" for DAK, one "guest" for DHS, and one "guest" for Epcot. Disney would count that as one DAK guest only.

 

[GLaDOS]

I think you're discounting the impact of park hopping. If Joe Tourist goes to DAK for two hours, DHS for four hours, and Epcot for Food and Wine all in the same day, the TEA is going to report that as one "guest" for DAK, one "guest" for DHS, and one "guest" for Epcot. Disney would count that as one DAK guest only.

Parkhopping is supposedly not included in these numbers released by the TEA either.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Parkhopping is supposedly not included in these numbers released by the TEA either.

Are they supposedly "first click" or some kind of average?