TEA Attendance Report Now due June 3rd

[Mouse_Trap]

Hold on a sec.... what 3rd gate???

Where on Google Earth do they have the property or the space to shoehorn in a new Theme park beyond the Water park and new resort?

Don't limit your searching to just their existing boundaries.

I just pulled the 2009 report.
DHS (9.7M) and AK (9.5M) had practically DOUBLE the attendance of IOA (4.6M) and USF (5.5M).
Now in 2014:
DHS (10.3M) and AK (10.4M) while now IOA (8.1M) and USF (8.2M).

They may still be the #2 resort in Orlando, but seriously...would it help if someone made a graph for you to comprehend just how insane those increases in such a short time are?

THIS. I have been making this point, but there are some pixie dusters who just want to rubbish it.
I too thought a graph may help them....

I've plotted USF and IoA against DHS, as DHS has been the lowest attended WDW park since 2010. I've included data going back to 2007, the last full pre-Potter year.
Don't forget USF only has 6 months of Diagon Alley attendance in the 2014 figures.

If nothing else, this shows how much ground Universals parks have made up against Disney's weakest performing par.
DAK has very similar numbers as DHS, but I've omitted it here for clarity.

Okay someone clarify one issue with me .... if i was to travel from USF to IOA on the train, hence being park to park - are we saying that my visit to IOA isn't counted?!

Yes that it so. I think the IoA numbers have been constrained and thus it's better to compare the numbers overall.
Why would that be ... and where does it say this?

Adding in the waterparks, WDW had a total attendance in 2014 of 55,692,000 an increase of 2.69% over 2013.
Universal Orlando meanwhile had a total attendance in 2014 of 16,404,000 an increase of 7.90% over 2013.

I am confused on one thing. Do people feel it is a good strategy for Disney to be building attractions in their WDW parks as quickly as Universal is? And if you believe this, why? Is it necessary for them to match Universal's pace?

They don't need to match Universal in putting up new attractions by any means, they have less need.

However, not even 1 E ticket in the last 10 years in any of the 4 WDW parks; nothing until 2017 at the earliest....and that is probably a D ticket Soarin' clone.
I think we can confidently say that WDW will not get a E ticket until 2020 at best.

That is appalling record for Disney.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

The marketplace is largely intact with a few notable exceptions. I did unfortunately believe that when Disney announced HW that is what would be built. It is repeated here often that Disney does not plus concepts but rather always finds ways to cut back. See DAK for instance. But that popular opinion is obviously wrong and I regret falling for that meme. Disney Springs is much better than HW. Happy TDO proved me wrong.

Better how? I have relatively little interest in either Disney shopping mall concept, but Hyperion Wharf's concept art is to me more unique and ambitious from a visual perspective. Springs is visually quite bland and ordinary looking by comparison. I'm not against Disney Springs, but as far as which one is more visually interesting and unique, Hyperion Wharf is the definite winner. These couple of pieces of art beat anything i've seen of Springs-

Versus any of these-

Among other art here-
http://www.yesterland.com/hyperwharf.html

Your attempts to divert this argument this are nonetheless irrelevant given the absurd hype you had for the project and the fact that you ignored the people on these forums who confirmed HW was dead long before it was officially announced.

It's hard to see how this project was "plussed" given that we didn't know much about HW to begin with before it was scrapped. It's just that what little we did see of it was IMO quite clearly more visually interesting and unique than Springs. It has been noted by numerous people on these forums that Springs' visual identity doesn't distinguish itself well from many other malls out there. Visually it's not very special, unique or interesting. This is especially questionable considering it's a Disney product.

 

[JordanNite]

"If you build it, they will come"


Someone pass this moto onto Iger.

 

[JordanNite]

Which is probably why a Marvel Land with an indoor Marvel coaster is on the books for DCA in 2018.

Sorry to burst your bubble - there is no Marvel Land coming in 2018. Even if Disney announced this tomorrow, the earliest it would be ready would be 2022.

 

[jt04]

Better how? I have relatively little interest in either Disney shopping mall concept, but Hyperion Wharf's concept art is to me more unique and ambitious from a visual perspective. Springs is visually quite bland and ordinary looking by comparison. I'm not against Disney Springs, but as far as which one is more visually interesting and unique, Hyperion Wharf is the definite winner. These couple of pieces of art beat anything i've seen of Springs-

Versus any of these-

Among other art here-
http://www.yesterland.com/hyperwharf.html

Your attempts to divert this argument this are nonetheless irrelevant given the absurd hype you had for the project and the fact that you ignored the people on these forums who confirmed HW was dead long before it was officially announced. It's hard to see how this project was "plussed" given that we didn't know much about HW to begin with. It's just that what we did see of it was IMO visually more interesting and unique than Springs.

Those same people claimed a project on the scale of HW would never happen before it was announced. Also that DTD would never get garages which was also wrong. And I am not the one trying to start arguments or attempting to hijack a thread in an attempt to get me banned. So I will be moving along. Pretty art work though. I still like DS better.

 

[JordanNite]

Guys serious question - if DHS closed down every attraction over at DHS and kept just Toy Story Mania would we still see a +2% increase in attendance?

What's sad .... i think we would.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Don't limit your searching to just their existing boundaries.



THIS. I have been making this point, but there are some pixie dusters who just want to rubbish it.
I too thought a graph may help them....

I've plotted USF and IoA against DHS, as DHS has been the lowest attended WDW park since 2010. I've included data going back to 2007, the last full pre-Potter year.
Don't forget USF only has 6 months of Diagon Alley attendance in the 2014 figures.

If nothing else, this shows how much ground Universals parks have made up against Disney's weakest performing par.
DAK has very similar numbers as DHS, but I've omitted it here for clarity.



Adding in the waterparks, WDW had a total attendance in 2014 of 55,692,000 an increase of 2.69% over 2013.
Universal Orlando meanwhile had a total attendance in 2014 of 16,404,000 an increase of 7.90% over 2013.




They don't need to match Universal in putting up new attractions by any means, they have less need.

However, not even 1 E ticket in the last 10 years in any of the 4 WDW parks; nothing until 2017 at the earliest....and that is probably a D ticket Soarin' clone.
I think we can confidently say that WDW will not get a E ticket until 2020 at best.

That is appalling record for Disney.

Couple thoughts. Your trendlines arent exactly following the curve accurately.

However the overwhelming idea that is if Disney doesnt do something with DHS quicker than 2020/21, there's a distinct chance that IOA or USF could catch them. (Then again I've seen USF's football team; theyre awful)

Now IOA leveled off this year. Weird. Wouldn't have predicted that. Tho, nothing new to draw people in. USF is not going to continue to see 17% annual gains. Yes its a boost but they're going to need to do more to draw guests in.

Lastly? DHS needs some damn help. It will continue to grow at a 1-2% rate because the resort as a whole grows that way.

Eventually all parks hit that Saturation point where they just cant draw in more people.

 

[TP2000]

Sorry to burst your bubble - there is no Marvel Land coming in 2018. Even if Disney announced this tomorrow, the earliest it would be ready would be 2022.

If they announce it in August at D23 and start work this fall, I think 2018 is very doable. Cars Land took just under 3 years from groundbreaking in July '09 to finished product in May '12. A similar 3 year timetable is doable for Marvel Land.

Although, I do agree that a Spring, 2019 opening of DCA's Marvel Land is more likely than Summer, 2018. But if it opened in 2022 they wouldn't even start construction until 2019.

WDI had height test balloons up over the Marvel Land property last year. It's a thing. Let's see what Bob Chapek says in Anaheim in August.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

And I am not the one trying to start arguments or attempting to hijack a thread in an attempt to get me banned.

I will get the last laugh. Per usual.

Cool contradictions, but perhaps you first should cool off about your odd shopping mall obsession if you're so concerned with the direction of this thread. Tis only fair, I was just pointing out how "right" you always are when it comes to Disney news and all the times you've "had the last laugh".

Speaking of which, wasn't there some imaginary pendulum that you mentioned was supposed to have swung back towards WDW several years ago? Hm, wonder what happened there. Perhaps the clock broke. Wouldn't be the only broken thing at WDW though, so at least it fits.

 

[JordanNite]

If they announce it in August at D23 and start work this fall, I think 2018 is very doable. Cars Land took just under 3 years from groundbreaking in July '09 to finished product in May '12. A similar 3 year timetable is doable for Marvel Land.

Although, I do agree that a Spring, 2019 opening of DCA's Marvel Land is more likely than Summer, 2018. But if it opened in 2022 they wouldn't even start construction until 2019.

WDI had height test balloons up over the Marvel Land property last year. It's a thing. Let's see what Bob Chapek says in Anaheim in August.

Pipe down with such dreams mate. It's only going to hurt you in the long run. Nothing will be built till Bob Iger leaves.

 

[JordanNite]

Couple thoughts. Your trendlines arent exactly following the curve accurately.

However the overwhelming idea that is if Disney doesnt do something with DHS quicker than 2020/21, there's a distinct chance that IOA or USF could catch them. (Then again I've seen USF's football team; theyre awful)

They will introduce a Frozen firework show. They will introduce more Frozen sing a longs. They will have a party with Frozen characters. They will have Frozen restaurants. They will introduce eat Frozen characters. They may also introduce more Frozen sing-a-longs with a ragae twist - this will keep DHS attendance flowing, with next to no investment.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Couple thoughts. Your trendlines arent exactly following the curve accurately.

However the overwhelming idea that is if Disney doesnt do something with DHS quicker than 2020/21, there's a distinct chance that IOA or USF could catch them. (Then again I've seen USF's football team; theyre awful)

Now IOA leveled off this year. Weird. Wouldn't have predicted that. Tho, nothing new to draw people in. USF is not going to continue to see 17% annual gains. Yes its a boost but they're going to need to do more to draw guests in.

Lastly? DHS needs some damn help. It will continue to grow at a 1-2% rate because the resort as a whole grows that way.

Eventually all parks hit that Saturation point where they just cant draw in more people.

IOA didn't level out. This is the monkey wrench in the data.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/on/universal-orlando-theme-park-million-hogwarts-express-riders/

 

[jakeman]

I just pulled the 2009 report.

DHS (9.7M) and AK (9.5M) had practically DOUBLE the attendance of IOA (4.6M) and USF (5.5M).

Now in 2014:

DHS (10.3M) and AK (10.4M) while now IOA (8.1M) and USF (8.2M).

They may still be the #2 resort in Orlando, but seriously...would it help if someone made a graph for you to comprehend just how insane those increases in such a short time are?

Don't limit your searching to just their existing boundaries.



THIS. I have been making this point, but there are some pixie dusters who just want to rubbish it.
I too thought a graph may help them....

I've plotted USF and IoA against DHS, as DHS has been the lowest attended WDW park since 2010. I've included data going back to 2007, the last full pre-Potter year.
Don't forget USF only has 6 months of Diagon Alley attendance in the 2014 figures.

If nothing else, this shows how much ground Universals parks have made up against Disney's weakest performing par.
DAK has very similar numbers as DHS, but I've omitted it here for clarity.



Adding in the waterparks, WDW had a total attendance in 2014 of 55,692,000 an increase of 2.69% over 2013.
Universal Orlando meanwhile had a total attendance in 2014 of 16,404,000 an increase of 7.90% over 2013.




They don't need to match Universal in putting up new attractions by any means, they have less need.

However, not even 1 E ticket in the last 10 years in any of the 4 WDW parks; nothing until 2017 at the earliest....and that is probably a D ticket Soarin' clone.
I think we can confidently say that WDW will not get a E ticket until 2020 at best.

That is appalling record for Disney.

I don't want to get into a micturation contest over the directions of the parks, but I think some context regarding the Uni increases should be considered, namely that IOA and to a lesser extent Uni proper were allowed to languish for a decade with rather steep declines in attendance. They in essences had no where to go but up.

It doesn't justify any stagnation on Disney's part but if you look at the spread in 2000 (apologies as the link was the best I could find with a quick Google search) it was much much closer:

1. Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World, 15.4 million (up 1.3%)
2. Disneyland, 13.9 million (up 3%)
3. Epcot at Walt Disney World, 10.6 million (up 5%)
4. Disney's MGM Studios at Walt Disney World, 8.9 million (up 2%)
5. Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World, 8.3 million (down 3%)
6. Universal Studios Orlando, 8.1 million (flat)
7. Islands of Adventure, 6 million (first full year)

While I applaud the expansions of the parks as being nothing but good competition as a whole, it's taken them 11-14 years and one of the most notable IPs in generations just to get back to where they were in 2000. Perhaps we shouldn't look at the Uni expansions beyond what it probably truly was/is...necessary to stay relevant.

 

[PhotoDave219]

They will introduce a Frozen firework show. They will introduce more Frozen sing a longs. They will have a party with Frozen characters. They will have Frozen restaurants. They will introduce eat Frozen characters. They may also introduce more Frozen sing-a-longs with a ragae twist - this will keep DHS attendance flowing, with next to no investment.

I find your lack of faith Disturbing. Obi-Wan never told you about Elsa....

 

[Mike S]

I don't want to get into a micturation contest over the directions of the parks, but I think some context regarding the Uni increases should be considered, namely that IOA and to a lesser extent Uni proper were allowed to languish for a decade with rather steep declines in attendance. They in essences had no where to go but up.

It doesn't justify any stagnation on Disney's part but if you look at the spread in 2000 (apologies as the link was the best I could find with a quick Google search) it was much much closer:

1. Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World, 15.4 million (up 1.3%)
2. Disneyland, 13.9 million (up 3%)
3. Epcot at Walt Disney World, 10.6 million (up 5%)
4. Disney's MGM Studios at Walt Disney World, 8.9 million (up 2%)
5. Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World, 8.3 million (down 3%)
6. Universal Studios Orlando, 8.1 million (flat)
7. Islands of Adventure, 6 million (first full year)

While I applaud the expansions of the parks as being nothing but good competition as a whole, it's taken them 11-14 years and one of the most notable IPs in generations just to get back to where they were in 2000. Perhaps we shouldn't look at the Uni expansions beyond what it probably truly was/is...necessary to stay relevant.

It also took getting bought by Comcast and having better people in charge. Whatever the reasons, the results are still incredible for us fans.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I don't want to get into a micturation contest over the directions of the parks, but I think some context regarding the Uni increases should be considered, namely that IOA and to a lesser extent Uni proper were allowed to languish for a decade with rather steep declines in attendance. They in essences had no where to go but up.

It doesn't justify any stagnation on Disney's part but if you look at the spread in 2000 (apologies as the link was the best I could find with a quick Google search) it was much much closer:

1. Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World, 15.4 million (up 1.3%)
2. Disneyland, 13.9 million (up 3%)
3. Epcot at Walt Disney World, 10.6 million (up 5%)
4. Disney's MGM Studios at Walt Disney World, 8.9 million (up 2%)
5. Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World, 8.3 million (down 3%)
6. Universal Studios Orlando, 8.1 million (flat)
7. Islands of Adventure, 6 million (first full year)

While I applaud the expansions of the parks as being nothing but good competition as a whole, it's taken them 11-14 years and one of the most notable IPs in generations just to get back to where they were in 2000. Perhaps we shouldn't look at the Uni expansions beyond what it probably truly was/is...necessary to stay relevant.

Haha, yeah. Uni is barely relevant.

Universal has momentum. Disney has inertia.

 

[jakeman]

It also took getting bought by Comcast and having better people in charge.

Yep.

I think it does show that Disney hasn't had to do anything up until this point (we'll see if it's too late and the UNI parks overtake DAK). When you look at the long game Uni is still playing catch up.

 

[TP2000]

Pipe down with such dreams mate. It's only going to hurt you in the long run. Nothing will be built till Bob Iger leaves.

Bob Iger approved the building of Cars Land. And he also approved the building of Buena Vista Street, with a working trolley system that is not just an Eisner-era pin cart.

Eisner's Red Car Trolley at WDW. The only ding-ding you hear is the cash register.

Iger's Red Car Trolley at Disney California Adventure. That smiling conductor has a real bell at his disposal. Ding-ding!

Bob Iger also just redressed DCA's Condor Flats into the far more attractive Grizzly Peak Airfield, just because it looks cool.

Bob Iger may not have shown much interest in the WDW parks in the last decade, but he's been very good for DCA during that time. And Imagineers weren't flying height test balloons behind DCA's Tower of Terror last year so they could build a new Denny's. It's for Marvel Land.

That said, I think Iger will also finally allow stuff to get built at DHS too. We'll know more at D23 Expo in August, I'm sure.

 

[PhotoDave219]

It also took getting bought by Comcast and having better people in charge. Whatever the reasons, the results are still incredible for us fans.

Yep.

I think it does show that Disney hasn't had to do anything up until this point (we'll see if it's too late and the UNI parks overtake DAK). When you look at the long game Uni is still playing catch up.

Yes, Blackstone's leadership through the 2000s cost Universal dearly. Like Jake said, They're now back to a level they were at 15 years ago. Thats a long time to play catch up.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Bob Iger approved the building of Cars Land. And he also approved the building of Buena Vista Street, with a working trolley system that is not just an Eisner-era pin cart.

Eisner's Red Car Trolley at WDW. The only ding-ding you hear is the cash register.

Iger's Red Car Trolley at Disney California Adventure. That smiling conductor has a real bell at his disposal. Ding-ding!

Bob Iger also just redressed DCA's Condor Flats into the far more attractive Grizzly Peak Airfield, just because it looks cool.

Bob Iger may not have shown much interest in the WDW in the last decade, but he's been very good for DCA the last five years. Imagineers weren't flying height test balloons behind DCA's Tower of Terror last year so they could build a new Denny's. It's for Marvel Land.

That said, I think Iger will also finally allow stuff to get built at DHS too. We'll know more at D23 Expo in August, I'm sure.

Dear lord, even I dont post my charts that big. Downsize those!