Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[lazyboy97o]

So your response is that closing businesses down doesn't cost jobs? Seriously? Tell that to all the small business owners who are losing everything. Most people can't just put their lives on pause.

It's a position of immense economic privilege to not be able to see that.

I'm sure you know DLR and WDW are not identical situations. Nor can you compare TWDC with mom and pop businesses all over the country.

I'm not a "throw it all open with no safeguards" person. But I'm also not a "shut it all down" person. I think we need to use a scalpel rather than a chainsaw when shutting things down. Allow businesses to open with a reasonable plan in place for mitigation. Closing business with no compensation (because all the politicians are politicking rather than doing their jobs) is a huge step. And people just sit around saying "But we need to be safe!" without caring what happens to the people left in its wake.

You didn't answer. Has your income been interrupted through the shut downs? Have you lost health insurance?

I’m not saying it does not cost jobs, but it is not the only way jobs are lost or stay lost. Jobs in conventions and trade shows were lost before any restrictions and were going to stay lost. Even now with some places open and begging to host such evens their organizers are not doing it. Most of my local restaurants still have their dining rooms closed despite no requirement, resulting in lost jobs. Too many people being sick to run a business causes losses. Walt Disney World has rooms shuttered not because of legal restrictions. The massive staff brought on for Epic Universe was largely laid off as the park sits on life support while the governor begs the parks to reopen more and increase capacity.

I have said repeatedly that at a gut level I don’t like lockdowns or restrictions. I am wary of states of emergency and am greatly disturbed by the abdication of legislative authority to executive rule making. My dislike of restrictions is an emotional response. My far bigger problem is that others I see advocating for a less government imposed approach are doing so from profound ignorance to conspiracies to outright lying. I don’t like restrictions, I really don’t like executive restrictions, but I also don’t know enough about public health, medicine and epidemiology to have a better idea. I’m open to better idea but when it’s coming from people who don’t know some basics, or are claiming widespread fraud by doctors or are lying about how many people die that is not people I want to be associated with. The end does not justify the means.

I agree that a scalpel approach is better. So do the vast majority of public health experts. Large scale lockdowns have always been described as a blunt, last resort that should be avoided as much as possible. The whole reason California has all of these weird plans and schemes is because they’re actually trying that sort of approach. It is different criteria for different types of businesses in different places.

I didn’t answer because I don’t publicly discuss my personal life.

 

[el_super]

I’m open to better idea but when it’s coming from people who don’t know some basics, or are claiming widespread fraud by doctors or are lying about how many people die that is not people I want to be associated with. The end does not justify the means.

Exactly this. I've been waiting for people to come out and say what alternative solution would keep hospitalizations down, and ICU capacity available, but there has been no alternatives offered and just the retort that businesses need to be open. Meanwhile people are dying.

 

[el_super]

The people on this forum are truly something else. Before Disney reopened the shopping district, all anyone had to say was “why does Disney have to keep laying people off?? Why can’t they get creative like Knott’s and open up some of their restaurants and shops and help keep cast members employed?” And now that they actually did that and have to close down again it’s an abrupt 180 to “they had it coming for opening anything in the first place.”

You're absolutely right. The calls to have Disney reopen were absolutely premature and coming from a lack of understanding the status of the pandemic. When Knott's was able to open up for their food festival, and the calls were coming out that Disney should do the same, the assumption I had at the time was that Disney couldn't figure out a way to open that would shield them from the risk of having to close again when things got worse.

I don't believe at all that Disney didn't plan for the possibility of having to close facilities again, and factored that into the calculations of reopening. But if you want to take pity on Disney for just not understanding how business works, by all means you can.

 

[el_super]

Has anyone gotten Covid buying a corn dog from Award Wieners?

We don't know, because there is a shortage of contact tracers in the county:

“The number of staff doing [contact tracing] work and the number of cases investigated varies day to day. The OC Health Care Agency (HCA) has approximately 185 staff working nearly full time on COVID-19 activities and those resources are used to meet the most pressing needs for public health response first (i.e. Skilled Nursing Facility outbreaks) and staff shift from one activity to another to make the best use of available resources at all times,” said the county’s acting director of public health services, Marc Meulman, in a written response to questions.​

​

Orange County Continues to Face Shortages of Coronavirus Tests and Contact Tracing

Orange County is among many regions facing shortages on two key components to slow Coronavirus spread – testing and contact tracing.

voiceofoc.org

 

[drizgirl]

I’m not saying it does not cost jobs, but it is not the only way jobs are lost or stay lost. Jobs in conventions and trade shows were lost before any restrictions and were going to stay lost. Even now with some places open and begging to host such evens their organizers are not doing it. Most of my local restaurants still have their dining rooms closed despite no requirement, resulting in lost jobs. Too many people being sick to run a business causes losses. Walt Disney World has rooms shuttered not because of legal restrictions. The massive staff brought on for Epic Universe was largely laid off as the park sits on life support while the governor begs the parks to reopen more and increase capacity.

I have said repeatedly that at a gut level I don’t like lockdowns or restrictions. I am wary of states of emergency and am greatly disturbed by the abdication of legislative authority to executive rule making. My dislike of restrictions is an emotional response. My far bigger problem is that others I see advocating for a less government imposed approach are doing so from profound ignorance to conspiracies to outright lying. I don’t like restrictions, I really don’t like executive restrictions, but I also don’t know enough about public health, medicine and epidemiology to have a better idea. I’m open to better idea but when it’s coming from people who don’t know some basics, or are claiming widespread fraud by doctors or are lying about how many people die that is not people I want to be associated with. The end does not justify the means.

I agree that a scalpel approach is better. So do the vast majority of public health experts. Large scale lockdowns have always been described as a blunt, last resort that should be avoided as much as possible. The whole reason California has all of these weird plans and schemes is because they’re actually trying that sort of approach. It is different criteria for different types of businesses in different places.

I didn’t answer because I don’t publicly discuss my personal life.

So because we can't solve all the job losses, we shouldn't solve any?

If this is California's attempt at using a scalpel, I'd say they need a smaller scalpel.

Unless your real name is lazyboy97o, I have no idea who you are, so not sure why answering that question would be personal. But I'll just take that as a no.

We lost our primary income and our health insurance. And it's maddening to watch people advocate for more closures and lockdowns when they aren't the ones being affected.

 

[drizgirl]

We don't know, because there is a shortage of contact tracers in the county:

“The number of staff doing [contact tracing] work and the number of cases investigated varies day to day. The OC Health Care Agency (HCA) has approximately 185 staff working nearly full time on COVID-19 activities and those resources are used to meet the most pressing needs for public health response first (i.e. Skilled Nursing Facility outbreaks) and staff shift from one activity to another to make the best use of available resources at all times,” said the county’s acting director of public health services, Marc Meulman, in a written response to questions.​

​

Orange County Continues to Face Shortages of Coronavirus Tests and Contact Tracing

Orange County is among many regions facing shortages on two key components to slow Coronavirus spread – testing and contact tracing.

voiceofoc.org

So then you admit they are closing down business without knowing they are causing any sort of danger.

 

[el_super]

So then you admit they are closing down business without knowing they are causing any sort of danger.

Not at all. They have the science that shows people with COVID were more likely to eat out.

Adults with confirmed COVID-19 (case-patients) were approximately twice as likely as were control-participants to have reported dining at a restaurant in the 14 days before becoming ill. In addition to dining at a restaurant, case-patients were more likely to report going to a bar/coffee shop, but only when the analysis was restricted to participants without close contact with persons with known COVID-19 before illness onset.​

​

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...

www.cdc.gov

​

​

​

It's true that the science of specific locations and business segments isn't as robust as some would think is necessary, but the truth is people are still getting sick, hospitals are getting overwhelmed, and action needs to be taken. Science does know that reducing the number of interactions and proximity of people will help fight a pandemic and keep people alive and so steps need to be taken to reduce the number of physical interactions people are making.

From a practicality standpoint, even if you know what is causing the issue (groups from different households interacting), you may not necessarily be able to mitigate that particular cause without collateral damage. It would be easy to say that restaurants can stay open, as long as they enforce keeping members of different households apart, but then how effective would that enforcement be?

 

[el_super]

We lost our primary income and our health insurance. And it's maddening to watch people advocate for more closures and lockdowns when they aren't the ones being affected.

The closures and lockdowns are for public safety. That's everyone, not just those that have lost their income. I can (and will) advocate for you to receive whatever assistance and help you need, but I can't do that if I am in the hospital, and it would be pointless to do that if you end up dead.

 

[LastoneOn]

It could be more ominous if they tried, like changing the image of the virus into a black blob with spikier knobby things. It sort of looks like a happy Japanese cartoon sea sponge, especially with that bright color blue they chose.

Here's the science and data on the survival rates for all those Cases.

CDC COVID-19 Survival Rates

• Age 0-19 = 99.997%
• Age 20-49 = 99.98%
• Age 50-69 = 99.5%
• Age 70-105 = 94.6%

CDC Releases Updated COVID-19 Fatality Rate Data

The US Center for Disease Control (CDC) has released an update to their research on the fatality rate associated with COVID-19. The CDC first posted this data on May 20, 2020, with the understanding that the parameter values would be updated and augmented over time. This update, dated September...

tallahasseereports.com

Well, Mr. Biden said yesterday the most vulnerable and likeliest group to get infected will be getting perhaps 100 Billion a year to reopen safely: He was talking about schools.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Well, Mr. Biden said yesterday the most vulnerable and likeliest group to get infected will be getting perhaps 100 Billion a year to reopen safely: He was talking about schools.

Nothing to do with COVID, Mr. Biden must now pay back the entities that got him in the White House. It’s just dollars and cents. Next in line, Big Tech.

 

[LastoneOn]

For what it's worth, I'm high risk in a couple of categories. I read all the VERY EFFECTIVE steps that the state was doing to ensure my safety...like wiping down the elevator buttons at least two times per day and setting up chairs for a room full of jurors 6 feet apart. I got a note from my doctor mentioning my risk factors, so they let me off. Of course they didn't text or email. I had to log on to the site and there was a teeny paragraph saying my service was complete.

Our state courthouse is cleaner than it was on opening day.

 

[LastoneOn]

Nothing to do with COVID, Mr. Biden must now pay back the entities that got him in the White House. It’s just dollars and cents. Next in line, Big Tech.

I know.
Point was he's going to 'protect' the population least in need of protecting from COVID: Kids

 

[Disstevefan1]

I know.
Point was he's going to 'protect' the population least in need of protecting from COVID: Kids

Totally agree... The bad policy decisions are already happening and will be at taxpayers expense....

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

So because we can't solve all the job losses, we shouldn't solve any?

If this is California's attempt at using a scalpel, I'd say they need a smaller scalpel.

Unless your real name is lazyboy97o, I have no idea who you are, so not sure why answering that question would be personal. But I'll just take that as a no.

We lost our primary income and our health insurance. And it's maddening to watch people advocate for more closures and lockdowns when they aren't the ones being affected.

There are people that seem to take schadenfreude in seeing people forced to surrender their livelihoods and plunged into poverty for the sake of saving hypothetical lives, all the while being unaffected themselves. I'm an Essential Frontline Worker and I assume most of them are not and have been living in a totally different world than the one in which I reside. In this brave new China Virus frontier, we just continue on earning our paychecks masked and sanitized, sitting in absurd traffic, listening to people complain that their kids are always home at school on the internet and when we have time to shop, having to deal with massive crowds at stores because they're the only places open and everyone goes there at all times now for an outing.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Not at all. They have the science that shows people with COVID were more likely to eat out.

Adults with confirmed COVID-19 (case-patients) were approximately twice as likely as were control-participants to have reported dining at a restaurant in the 14 days before becoming ill. In addition to dining at a restaurant, case-patients were more likely to report going to a bar/coffee shop, but only when the analysis was restricted to participants without close contact with persons with known COVID-19 before illness onset.​

​

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...

www.cdc.gov

​

​

​

It's true that the science of specific locations and business segments isn't as robust as some would think is necessary, but the truth is people are still getting sick, hospitals are getting overwhelmed, and action needs to be taken. Science does know that reducing the number of interactions and proximity of people will help fight a pandemic and keep people alive and so steps need to be taken to reduce the number of physical interactions people are making.

From a practicality standpoint, even if you know what is causing the issue (groups from different households interacting), you may not necessarily be able to mitigate that particular cause without collateral damage. It would be easy to say that restaurants can stay open, as long as they enforce keeping members of different households apart, but then how effective would that enforcement be?

Has nothing to do with OUTDOOR Dining.

In fact, a LA Judge has said so.

Judge wants to see evidence for LA County’s restaurant dining ban – Daily News

 

[el_super]

There are people that seem to take schadenfreude in seeing people forced to surrender their livelihoods and plunged into poverty for the sake of saving hypothetical lives, all the while being unaffected themselves.

Or maybe, we are essential workers that have been pleading with people to take the virus seriously in order to finally end these restrictions.

Health Care workers, the ones that have been on the forefront of battling the virus, and the most essential at this time, have been pleading with people to stay home and wear a mask since July.

One nurse said: "Please tell me my life is worth a LITTLE of your discomfort?”

If you don't want to accept what some people on the internet say, listen to the pleas of the health professionals that you may some day rely on.

 

[el_super]

Has nothing to do with OUTDOOR Dining.

Any interaction with people from outside your immediate household has a chance of spreading the infection. Outdoor dining facilitates those interactions.

This is the same argument for why Disneyland is closed: You can say that face masks and shields and plastic barriers everywhere will make Disneyland safe, but it still facilitates people meeting friends from another house, interacting with employees and long term exposure to surfaces that could carry the virus.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

So, what we have here are a few people acting from a place of privilege and forcing lifestyle changes upon those who are beneath them. Just like our leaders and their constituents... So no wonder they laugh off any negative comments about newsom or LA reps, as they're equal attacks upon themselves.

Across all the political threads on here we have the same privileged people, unaffected by the virus, pushing their political agendas and forcing hardship upon others.

 

[Darkbeer1]

So, what we have here are a few people acting from a place of privilege and forcing lifestyle changes upon those who are beneath them. Just like our leaders and their constituents... So no wonder they laugh off any negative comments about newsom or LA reps, as they're equal attacks upon themselves.

Across all the political threads on here we have the same privileged people, unaffected by the virus, pushing their political agendas and forcing hardship upon others.

The First Amendment of the US Constitution gives us five basic freedoms: Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press, and the Right to Peacefully assemble.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So because we can't solve all the job losses, we shouldn't solve any?

If this is California's attempt at using a scalpel, I'd say they need a smaller scalpel.

Unless your real name is lazyboy97o, I have no idea who you are, so not sure why answering that question would be personal. But I'll just take that as a no.

We lost our primary income and our health insurance. And it's maddening to watch people advocate for more closures and lockdowns when they aren't the ones being affected.

Where did I say don’t try to solve them? My issue is with this false narrative that responding to the virus is resulting in drastically more economic losses. That has not been borne out anywhere. Even historically trying to just ignore issues of public health has done more, longer lasting economic harm.

I keep going back to the Walt Disney World layoffs because they are a good case study. Despite being open Walt Disney World was not spared layoffs. The layoffs did not disproportionately affect the Disneyland Resort despite the continued closure. The layoffs were rather uniform and of a similar scale regardless of Disneyland Resort being closed and Walt Disney World being begged by the governor to increase capacity. States that have and are taking a more lax approach are not booming. Sweden, which is starting to go back on its lax approach, has not fared better economically than its regional neighbors. The choice isn’t between a lot of jobs lost and a few jobs lost, it’s a choice between a lot of jobs lost, more illness, more deaths, overwhelmed hospitals and a likely slower economic recovery based on historic precedent or about the same jobs lost, less illness, fewer deaths, available medical care and a speedier economic recovery. Like I said before, we have the word quarantine because of merchants who intentionally hindered their trade.

We are not having a private discussion. My field has been absolutely decimated and while it is a bit of coincidence of timing, the worst has been in places with a more lax approach to dealing with the pandemic.