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Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

el_super

Well-Known Member
100% agree. However, people are not used to living based on "what do I need to do to JUST live, or not?" It's a very straw man approach to the whole outdoor dining conversation. Do people need outdoor dining to live? Absolutely not. But are people up to their wits about staying in, nine months into a pandemic? Totally, and when you mix this conversation with the larger elephant in the room about the measured detrimental health factors of extended shutdown orders, along with the ruining of the economy, then it's completely justifiable to permit outdoor dining at a safe, socially-distant and constantly sanitized location.

Or the other massive elephant. The one about people losing their life savings and income having more businesses closed than absolutely positively (according to science) need to be closed. It's not about people needing to eat out. It's about people needing to support themselves because certain powerful politicians wouldn't pass a bill and help until after the election.

Apparently just enough government working to close things down. But not enough to pass something to help those they were closing down.

You're both right: this has gone on for far too long and the people elected to protect this nation from all threats, failed to do so. Other nations were able to better control the spread and outbreak, by enforcing lockdowns and providing for the population. A three month lockdown from March to June probably would have prevented the death we are seeing now, but because no one was willing to pay for it, we are in the mess we are in.

Even back in March this was posed as a question of whether we wanted to limit deaths or not. It was always understood that the economy would be ruined by this. But by choosing to end lockdowns too early, implementing them so haphazardly and not enforcing them, we have allowed the virus to continue killing, while also having to accept the damage to the economy.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Provide the Science & Data that shows Outdoor Dining is responsible for spreading Covid.
The data and studies show the opposite, actually. Same with schools. And now, same many indoor businesses. This isn't where the spread is coming from. It is no longer enough to say these places and activities are causing spread by pointing to anecdotal evidence or by making overreaching assumptions, when real data shows it not to be the case. But small businesses will continue to be closed, or be shamed if they try to fight back. It doesn't matter if they lose everything. "If it saves just one life..." right? I imagine you will not convince anyone to change their minds one way or another, no matter where the current data and evidence leads...it is easier to ignore one side of the equation when we are so baked into our opinions...
 

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
Anyone catch Dr. Ferrer's emotional outburst yesterday? Crying while reporting numbers? Between this and her department's complete incompetence in providing ANY evidence for recent shutdowns, I think she should resign due to her obvious inability to lead and think rationally in a time of crisis.

The irony in calling out a person's dramatic response in such a dramatic manner. Her breaking down has nothing to do with her inability to lead (not being able to provide evidence is something else altogether.)
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The irony in calling out a person's dramatic response in such a dramatic manner. Her breaking down has nothing to do with her inability to lead (not being able to provide evidence is something else altogether.)

Valid point, but her crying at a press conference is just not a good look for leadership. Can you imagine if President Roosevelt had cried during his fireside chats to a scared nation? Or if President Bush wandered into the chaos of the destroyed World Trade Center on September 14th and cried into his bullhorn?

She's probably under a great deal of stress this week because of her failed legal case. But still...

I can be sympathetic a bit because these county and state health directors never ran for these positions, they were simply appointed by politicians. They were used to being in anonymous yet very highly paid bureaucratic jobs for life. They had big salaries, cushy government pensions and paid benefits, lots of time off and never had to work weekends or holidays, and were gone from the office by Noon on Fridays. Then Covid happened and BOOM! they are some of the most scrutinized and busy bureaucrats in history.

The poor lady doctor who had this same job for Orange County resigned in a panic because people were showing up to public county meetings and protesting her decisions to her face. She wasn't used to that and apparently failed to realize her career was a senior leadership position that may subject her to public scrutiny. So she quit suddenly and returned to her upper-middle class anonymity.

Meanwhile, Outdoor Dining is still shut down and restaurants are failing left and right with no evidence to show why they made those shutdown decisions.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Good point from this Twitterer on Irvine Spectrum. It's packed, just like South Coast Plaza and every other mall in OC that has plenty of free parking. Downtown Disney has to get rid of the $10 parking! (with complimentary half mile HealthWalk included with every $10 ticket)

I don't know why TDA is being so stubborn on that.

 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
if President Bush wandered into the chaos of the destroyed World Trade Center on September 14th and cried into his bullhorn?
Yeah that would never happen while he was President.

1607645487240.png
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yeah that would never happen while he was President.

View attachment 518158

You know what's funny about that? As I was typing the analogy of President Bush not crying into his bullhorn at a destroyed World Trade Center I thought to myself "TP2000, you are only going to convince someone to Google up a photo of a President crying at some point in history." 🤣

And you got it.

I didn't know who the President would be, and if it would be a more recent situation of President Bush or Obama crying that was due to some national tragedy, or if it was going to be a historical situation like President Kennedy crying because the Secret Service had to quickly get the naked stewardesses out of the White House pool since Jackie was coming home early. But I figured we'd get a photo of a crying President at some point in history. 😭
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I must say, this newly abandoned Downtown Disney has led to some really bizarre scenes.

As I'm sure we all know and have experienced ourselves, that horrible gridlocked walkway leading into Downtown Disney in front of La Brea Bakery was always such a hassle. Even on "slow" days, that walkway between the bakery and the fountain was crowded. And in the evenings, it just became a gridlocked mess.

But now? Here's a nice lady who captured this exact infamous spot yesterday afternoon. And it's EMPTY!

 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The poor lady doctor who had this same job for Orange County resigned in a panic because people were showing up to public county meetings and protesting her decisions to her face. She wasn't used to that and apparently failed to realize her career was a senior leadership position that may subject her to public scrutiny. So she quit suddenly and returned to her upper-middle class anonymity.
You’re right, the threats were not a problem, it was the civil disagreement...
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You’re right, the threats were not a problem, it was the civil disagreement...

FYI for those not in OC, a group of protesters showed up outside her tract home in Laguna Niguel, and county meetings were heated and included lots of rowdy shouting and threatening anger directed at her. While none of the behavior crossed into the illegal, it was people voicing their frustration at her. I don't envy her one bit.

But she was clearly not cut out for a job in public leadership. She may not have understood what her job choice actually was when she took it pre-Covid, but the Covid situation made it suddenly clear that she had chosen a career as a public leader. And her leadership skills were sorely lacking in the face of sharp criticism.

She may be a fine doctor. But she was not a leader.

It's probably for the best that she resigned suddenly in June, it was clearly not a job she was cut out for. Her replacement has done a much better job and is able to withstand the pressures and responsibilities of being a county health director in a pandemic, with a lot of angry taxpayers questioning his decisions. But he hasn't resigned.

This news report shows the protesters that appeared at county meetings and the man at the one county meeting who made the statement that was construed as a "death threat" against Dr. Quick before she resigned suddenly. Style points from the death threat guy for his pocket square in his sport coat! And yes, this group of people outside county headquarters is what is considered "protesting" here in calm and courteous Orange County.

 
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Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
You know what's funny about that? As I was typing the analogy of President Bush not crying into his bullhorn at a destroyed World Trade Center I thought to myself "TP2000, you are only going to convince someone to Google up a photo of a President crying at some point in history." 🤣

And you got it.

I didn't know who the President would be, and if it would be a more recent situation of President Bush or Obama crying that was due to some national tragedy, or if it was going to be a historical situation like President Kennedy crying because the Secret Service had to quickly get the naked stewardesses out of the White House pool since Jackie was coming home early. But I figured we'd get a photo of a crying President at some point in history. 😭

Yeah you walked into that one.

To the larger point, leaders do cry. It doesn't make them a lesser person, quite the opposite. A lot of people have died and IMO many of them didn't have to. A health care professional being bothered by the loss of life is very reasonable assumption. I'm sure she probably feels she hasn't done enough even if many feel she and others in her position have done too much.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Judge Lifts Los Angeles County Ban On Outdoor Dining At Restaurants, But State Order Still In Effect | The Daily Wire

>>California Health and Human Services Agency Secretary Mark Ghaly on Tuesday acknowledged the state’s regional prohibition on outdoor dining has more to do with preventing gatherings and limiting movement than the activity itself.

“The decision to include among other sectors outdoor dining and limiting that – turning to restaurants to deliver and provide takeout options instead – really has to do with the goal of trying to keep people at home, not a comment on the relative safety of outdoor dining,” he said at a press briefing.

“We have worked hard with that industry to create safer ways for outdoor dining to happen – to keeping tables further apart, to ensuring masking happens as much as possible, to create opportunities for air circulation to continue – all of those factors make sectors like outdoor dining lower risk,” he said.<<
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just hours later, however, five California state Assembly members dined together outside at a Sacramento restaurant.

Assembly members Adrin Nazarian, D-West Toluca Lake, Chad Mayes, I-Rancho Mirage, Tasha Boerner Horvath, D-Encinitas, Marc Levine, D-Marin County, and Chris Ward, D-San Diego, along with Mayes’ fiancée, attended a dinner Monday evening at Maydoon, a newer restaurant in Sacramento’s Midtown neighborhood.

When asked by a Sacramento Bee reporter about their decision to enjoy a multi-household outing, Nazarian responded by asking “Can we not have dinner?”<<

Oh, that's hysterical! And what a perfect quote.

"Can we not have dinner?" the state assemblyman asks incredulously.

You honestly can't make this stuff up. You just have to check the news every day. 🤣

Maydoon Restaurant. Five Stars on Yelp! Where Sacramento's Democrat Elite, Meet! Can we not have dinner?!?

 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So...OC ICU beds at 3% https://ochca.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/cc4859c8c522496b9f21c451de2fedae. Guess we're not arguing about Orange County being so special any more. And the shots of an empty Downtown Disney are the entire point why dining is restricted-it's gotten lots of people to stay home.

The "Adjusted" versus "Unadjusted" metric is brand new today. I have no idea what that means. Does anyone know?

The "Unadjusted" rate of ICU availability in OC is currently 11.3% with 257 people in the ICU today. Compared to the mid-summer peak when 245 people were in an ICU in OC on July 15th. But the "Adjusted" rate of ICU availability is 3.5%.

What the heck is the difference between the long-standing ICU metric being branded "Unadjusted" and then an "Adjusted" rate being different from that? How is it adjusted? By whom? For what reason I wonder? Either an ICU has a patient in it, or it doesn't.

That's fascinating!
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
And the shots of an empty Downtown Disney are the entire point why dining is restricted-it's gotten lots of people to stay home.

Don't worry, they're all at Irvine Spectrum and South Coast Plaza! I just chatted with a friend who said she circled for 20 minutes earlier tonight trying to find a parking spot at South Coast Plaza.

And because of Covid, South Coast Plaza has stopped offering their valet parking, which sends a lot of shoppers out into the nether reaches of surface parking lots to fend for themselves! For OC, that's like going into a darkened haunted house on Halloween. Scary!
 

JustinSt

Active Member
Judge Lifts Los Angeles County Ban On Outdoor Dining At Restaurants, But State Order Still In Effect | The Daily Wire

>>California Health and Human Services Agency Secretary Mark Ghaly on Tuesday acknowledged the state’s regional prohibition on outdoor dining has more to do with preventing gatherings and limiting movement than the activity itself.

“The decision to include among other sectors outdoor dining and limiting that – turning to restaurants to deliver and provide takeout options instead – really has to do with the goal of trying to keep people at home, not a comment on the relative safety of outdoor dining,” he said at a press briefing.

“We have worked hard with that industry to create safer ways for outdoor dining to happen – to keeping tables further apart, to ensuring masking happens as much as possible, to create opportunities for air circulation to continue – all of those factors make sectors like outdoor dining lower risk,” he said.<<
So let us open outdoor dining.
 

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