Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[21stamps]

Please don't take my side of the argument in this. Your extremism only diminishes it.

Extremism, where?
I could care less about YouTube rants from people who feel the need to record themselves and tell the world their thoughts.
I’m curious to know what the general consensus on someone’s own social media is, with people who they actually know.

I appreciate that you think I’m taking “your side” but youtube vids to prove his opinion, from that specific poster are quite common. So it’s nothing new or something that I haven’t addressed before.

I should add that I don’t think it’s wrong or right to like or dislike a movie.. I do think it’s odd to claim a movie is generally disliked because there are youtube videos claiming that it is. I don’t know what to think about the Rotten Tomatos reactions.

 

[JohnD]

No we will not stop. I found this one much more entertaining than the movie.

I've been waiting to use this meme.

 

[21stamps]

I've been waiting to use this meme.

Ok, I have to admit, that’s a good meme. Even if I don’t agree with what you’re agreeing with.lol

 

[bclane]

Here’s my question for everyone here.,

On YOUR own social media.. your friends, family, coworkers.. how many are posting that they didn’t like the film? The majority or minority?

Not weird YouTube people who make videos to feel important and make up for low self esteem.. I’m asking about actual “normal” people.

Everyone I saw it with and most of the people I know loved it. Like any movie, it had it’s flaws but to me it truly captured the heart of what Star Wars is, while at the same time feeling very fresh.

 

[JohnD]

Ok, I have to admit, that’s a good meme. Even if I don’t agree with what you’re agreeing with.lol

The guy makes some good points:

• The codebreaker could break out at any time. He didn't have to wait on Rose and Finn
• Finn became comic relief
• What's this relationship of Rose and Finn that came out of nowhere? What about Rey and Finn?
• Leia should have died in space. That was given to them on a silver platter by Fisher's unfortunate death. Instead we get Leia Poppins or SuperLeia.
• Luke couldn't be stopped by all the shooting. I agree. Luke, right there, on that planet, would have been great. Instead he was a projection who died because of too much effort. Huh?

 

[fractal]

Here’s my question for everyone here.,

On YOUR own social media.. your friends, family, coworkers.. how many are posting that they didn’t like the film? The majority or minority?

Not weird YouTube people who make videos to feel important and make up for low self esteem.. I’m asking about actual “normal” people.

My two friends and I - all life-long Star Wars fans. Rating 0-10.

1st Friend 3
2nd Friend 5 "Too long" he said, to which I said "Godfather, Gone with the Wind and Braveheart were longer but no one complained. Maybe because they were good to great movies."
Me 4

Now my son gave it a 7 but had issues with several things and also said it was "so long". Another friend's son (age 17) gave it a 6. First thing he said was how stupid the attempts at humor were.

 

[bclane]

Here is my take on some of the controversy surrounding Rey. Since VII, I have felt like the Force itself is going through a bit of a character arc which is both a little odd and at the same time kinda mind blowing to think about...imo. It seems clear to me that the Force, for whatever reason, chose Rey to bring balance. Since it has a special purpose for her, I believe that the Force itself has been developing her...outside of any regular masters, and this explains why things are seemingly happening so fast for her. It’s possible, that the Force itself has been developing her since she was very young. She is obviously very raw still in her traditional Jedi like skills but her ability to wield the force may end up being quite unique in a universe where lots and lots of beings are sensitive to it. I love the direction they are taking Star Wars and can’t wait to see VIII again.

 

[FoozieBear]

The guy makes some good points

• Luke couldn't be stopped by all the shooting. I agree. Luke, right there, on that planet, would have been great. Instead he was a projection who died because of too much effort. Huh?

How do you know that Luke did not die of natural causes, and what was his intention to escape to Ach-To to die alone ended up becoming a triumphant moment of return before becoming one with the force?

 

[21stamps]

My two friends and I - all life-long Star Wars fans. Rating 0-10.

1st Friend 3
2nd Friend 5 "Too long" he said, to which I said "Godfather, Gone with the Wind and Braveheart were longer but no one complained. Maybe because they were good to great movies."
Me 4

Now my son gave it a 7 but had issues with several things and also said it was "so long". Another friend's son (age 17) gave it a 6. First thing he said was how stupid the attempts at humor were.

Thank you. It was definitely long...which is why I’m surprised that my kiddo was so mesmerized the entire time. Kind of surprised that I was fine with it too. I forget the name, but there was a Leo DiCaprio movie several years ago.. I remember sitting in the theater just wishing for it to end- for about 90 minutes of the film.

 

[flynnibus]

This movie was written before TFA was even finished, and the lack of a shared vision shows. It felt like Rian Johnson didn't care about most of J.J. Abrams plot points, and disregarded them.

Agreed - people like to point the finger at fan fiction... but the lines between TFA and TLJ are a train wreck - And that's on Disney, not fan expectations.

Some people have complained about force users doing things we've never seen before, which is a silly complaint. The first seven movies do not represent a complete and definitive list of force powers. Why wouldn't there be more that we haven't seen

But the OT and prequels have set the stage that users of the force have limits. It set the expectation that only the top of the top are pressing those limits like moving large masses, mind links, etc. The problem is not 'new' force powers, it's force powers that are inconsistent with the canon around Jedi. It's inconsistent with what it takes to master the force from someone who is just a nobody. The Loki trick we now have to believe is something Luke was able to master on his own... while being alone... and it's not something that would have been useful by Jedi we've seen all through the pre-quels and other places? Again the problem isn't that its new - it's that it seems so improbable...

Oddly, many people are acting like it's a new thing that force use isn't just restricted to a chosen few. This was never the case. The prequels showed there were hundreds of Jedi. They weren't all Skywalkers.

It's not that others are force sensitive and able to harness the force... it's that being able to do so with such authority without any training (or time) is unheard of in the universe for 'just anyone'

 

[HauntedPirate]

Don't have time to go into everything I've been thinking about the movie. One thing to share quickly - The ending of Ep8 should have been the ending of Ep9. Very disappointed with the ending of the movie.

 

[JohnD]

How do you know that Luke did not die of natural causes, and what was his intention to escape to Ach-To to die alone ended up becoming a triumphant moment of return before becoming one with the force?

Well, apparently he died of natural causes by the strain of projecting himself across space. But who cares? It would have been a better scene for Luke to be right there on that planet standing down the First Order. Wasn't that the point of TFA to find him? How about some serious Force-use to fight back? An actual lightsaber battle with Ren, maybe? Using the force to knock away the laser cannon? Let's see Luke go all bada** on them. Instead, he's a projected ruse that causes him to die to let the Resistance escape out a back door. Except that back door is blocked, so Rey has to step in there.

 

[Andrew C]

Well, apparently he died of natural causes by the strain of projecting himself across space. But who cares? It would have been a better scene for Luke to be right there on that planet standing down the First Order. Wasn't that the point of TFA to find him? How about some serious Force-use to fight back? An actual lightsaber battle with Ren, maybe? Using the force to knock away the laser cannon? Let's see Luke go all bada** on them. Instead, he's a projected ruse that causes him to die to let the Resistance escape out a back door. Except that back door is blocked, so Rey has to step in there.

All of your suggestions would have been very predictable. They decided to go a different route, which seems to have upset some and made others cheer.

 

[doctornick]

have said they wanted to see Lando in the casino. This is pure fan fiction territory, and would not have made sense. The prequels were awful for bringing back characters just for the sake of it. There was no need for Chewbacca to show up in Episode 3, and putting Lando in this film would have been contrived. Yoda appearing made sense, and served the story.

Agree totally with this. I found that to be one of the more annoying aspects of the prequels where they had such unnecessary appearances. I don't mind occasional fan service, but it should be subtle and inconsequential, just a little Easter egg for fans; it gets used too much to make the universe seem too small in Star Wars. The Jenga Fett/Boba Fett stuff was awful and completely unneeded in the prequels.

To be honest, I didn't like it with Admiral Ackbar in the new trilogy either. It's why I'm so glad that Rey apparently is not related to anyone established.

FWIW, Lando has made appearances in Star Wars Rebels and it works there. He'll be in the Han Solo movie as well which is appropriate.

This movie was written before TFA was even finished, and the lack of a shared vision shows. It felt like Rian Johnson didn't care about most of J.J. Abrams plot points, and disregarded them.

I like that Rey wasn't a Skywalker or a Kenobi or a Solo, but there was still a bit of a disconnect from the previous movie. In TFA it felt a bit like they were teasing a future big reveal, but the excessive fan theories and speculation fueled that more than the movie did. The movie never said that Rey's parentage mattered, nor did it imply that Snoke would be more than just a bad guy.

I don't think I agree. I think it's more that Lucasfilm has been intentionally going with misdirection with the new trilogy in order to surprise people and try to squelch spoilers. The trailers are full of misdirection and I think some of the stuff that seemed to be important in TFA was there to throw people off.

 

[doctornick]

Well, apparently he died of natural causes by the strain of projecting himself across space. But who cares? It would have been a better scene for Luke to be right there on that planet standing down the First Order. Wasn't that the point of TFA to find him? How about some serious Force-use to fight back? An actual lightsaber battle with Ren, maybe? Using the force to knock away the laser cannon? Let's see Luke go all bada** on them. Instead, he's a projected ruse that causes him to die to let the Resistance escape out a back door. Except that back door is blocked, so Rey has to step in there.

While I too was interested in seeing Luke back in action, I thought it was very clever how they did the third act and definitely made Luke ou as someone "special" who was transcending know Jedi abilities. It was a pretty cool send off actually and he'll likely still be around as a Force Ghost.

I wish we had seen him in a true lightsaber battle though, but I get the direction they were going for.

 

[fractal]

Well, apparently he died of natural causes by the strain of projecting himself across space. But who cares? It would have been a better scene for Luke to be right there on that planet standing down the First Order. Wasn't that the point of TFA to find him? How about some serious Force-use to fight back? An actual lightsaber battle with Ren, maybe? Using the force to knock away the laser cannon? Let's see Luke go all bada** on them. Instead, he's a projected ruse that causes him to die to let the Resistance escape out a back door. Except that back door is blocked, so Rey has to step in there.

Exactly - the man many of us consider the greatest Jedi, who saved the galaxy and redeemed Vader is served to us as a bitter, old coward that ran away from his problems and is waiting to die. Finally at the end of the movie we see him return to save the day (in an highly implausible way) , but alas even then he's ultimately a big disappointment and his "plan" (which by the way inexplicably doesn't tell anyone. There was no "ok, I'm going to distract them while you guys escape.") fails until Rey shows up and lifts the boulders like it was nothing.

And don't get me started with the Atat walker channeling it's inner gorilla. Just so ridiculous.

 

[FoozieBear]

Well, apparently he died of natural causes by the strain of projecting himself across space. But who cares? It would have been a better scene for Luke to be right there on that planet standing down the First Order. Wasn't that the point of TFA to find him? How about some serious Force-use to fight back? An actual lightsaber battle with Ren, maybe? Using the force to knock away the laser cannon? Let's see Luke go all bada** on them. Instead, he's a projected ruse that causes him to die to let the Resistance escape out a back door. Except that back door is blocked, so Rey has to step in there.

All that is very predictable, and exactly what the movie did best is that It didn't give fans everything they wanted, which makes it great unexpected storytelling.

 

[Minthorne]

Will Snoke return as a force wielding ghost and battle the spirit of Luke in episode 9? Or will they destroy all the horcurxes first?

 

[21stamps]

I’m going to say something that I said to my fellow GoT fans a few months ago.. we are in severe fiction..the use of words such as “implausible” and “impractical” always confuse me.

I think writers make the decision to go in a new direction, but we cling to their previous decisions so tightly that we prohibit ourselves from enjoying something for what it is.


Or..someone just may not like the new direction.

Either way, I think the people in charge have a method to their madness, and probably aren’t as clueless as we think they are.

 

[fractal]

All that is very predictable, and exactly what the movie did best is that It didn't give fans everything they wanted, which makes it great unexpected storytelling.

Having twists and unexpected surprises in storytelling is great if they are plausible and well executed. None of which happened in TLJ.

Think The Sixth Sense, Memento, Get Out, Fight Club and Empire Strikes Back.