Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Laura Dern would have been my first choice to be Leia 2.0, actually. Obviously, that’s not going to happen now.

Wouldn't have been hard to do. Introduce the Dern character after Leia's death rather than her recuperating in sickbay. Find someone else to remain on the ship. Remaining shots of Leia were pretty much reaction shots. Re-cut, re-film with Dern. Would have to cut the scene of Projection Luke interacting with Leia, though.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
@JohnD i didn’t want to continue spoilers in the other thread.. but I’ll tell you the one question that I have,

Luke said that some of the Jedis-in-Training left with Kylo Ren. Where are they? No one besides Ren and Snoke has shown signs of the force.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
@JohnD i didn’t want to continue spoilers in the other thread.. but I’ll tell you the one question that I have,

Luke said that some of the Jedis-in-Training left with Kylo Ren. Where are they? No one besides Ren and Snoke has shown signs of the force.
Knights of Ren.

And, no idea...

They could have easily explained them away if they wanted to toss them aside, by making the Snoke guards the knights. That may actually be the case, who knows? The movie didn't say.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
@JohnD i didn’t want to continue spoilers in the other thread.. but I’ll tell you the one question that I have,

Luke said that some of the Jedis-in-Training left with Kylo Ren. Where are they? No one besides Ren and Snoke has shown signs of the force.

It was never determined whether the Max Von Sydow character had Force powers. Or even if he didn't have any, maybe there are people associated with him who do. Anyway on my way out the door to a Christmas party. Catch up later.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
It’s a strange aside imo.
It is. I noted that they didn't come up in the back and forth Luke/Ren retellings of "what happened that night" either.

It would make sense for them to be the red guards though. One line of dialogue by Snoke would have explained where they ended up, and their slaying by Ren/Rey would explain why they no longer matter at all.

But, I guess I'll have to wait for a comic or novel to clear all that up. :p
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
If you ever come across an admiral or general, ask them what they think about a subordinate demanding to know if they have a plan.

But she is also someone who was just put in the slot... and you can tell even she is uneasy with her plan. She doesn't tell him because of fear... not because of ego and admiration for chain of command.

She was a softy and it showed.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
My own personal maybe too optimistic prediction-

Finn falls in love with the recouperating girl (forgot her name already).. which leaves Rey open for Kylo Ren.. and they destroy the first order once and for all.
The last few movies have had so much horrible death, I do think they may end on a happy note. Maybe..
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Finn falls in love with the recouperating girl (forgot her name already)
048730709c0fb3d1f7d0b49eccd21d2b--lmao-titanic.jpg
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
@spacemt354 If you don't watch the whole thing I posted above (I'm nearly done with it)...watch section 3.

Given your posts elsewhere, you probably will enjoy it, as it supports your position about reaction to this film.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
One thing I want to throw into the conversation is that many fans are upset with this movie because they felt the questions led them to the wrong paths. But it's not the fault of the film that fans have created unrealistic expectations and theories that go far beyond the stories that these movies are telling. Maybe there were just too many people that created this image that "Rey is a Skywalker!", and are now furious, while they should be celebrating the ambitious and creative storytelling, which is really at the heart of what Star Wars is all about.

You missed the point of much of the criticism...

It fails In basic storytelling...it has nothing to do with fan theories. Nothing. What do you say to those that are trying to make sense of this that had no fan theories? I think if your a tad more objective then that is a lot of what is being asked here...

Just a decent plot from a to b without nonsense and unnecessary filler...
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
So, I really liked it. And one of the reasons I liked it was because of the tropes that were broken. They didn't break all the tropes, which means, that near the end of the movie, I was left in the state of thinking: Anything can happen! Which, for me, means it's a great action and suspense movie.

So, what tropes?

Actor who dies in real life is killed off in the movie. Surely they wouldn't have General Leia survive now that Carrie is dead? Wrong! In what I thought was the for-sure death scene, she Forces her way back to life. And once in the Critical Unit bed, we would surely have a death scene with Rey or Poe crying at her side. Wrong! She comes back large and in control. Surely she would be the one to make the last sacrifice to save everyone. Wrong! She's doing just fine at the end of the movie.

Hot shot hunky pilot saves the day. Poe gambled on a tactic to take out the Dreadnought's guns. His piloting skills would save the day. Wrong! BB-8 nearly had to sacrifice himself to save Poe's recklessness. And that recklessness led to a Pyrrhic victory. The Dreadnought was taken out, but so was all the Resistance's bombers and a lot of lives. When you have few resources, you don't take on someone with greater resources in a tit-for-tat trade-off. You lose. And he disobeyed orders. And his other gambit to take out the Cruise ships hyperspace tracker failed. And his mutiny failed. And his charge against the battering engine failed. His actions led to the severe losses. He demanded information from his superior (who had a plan but didn't tell him). And he behaved treasonously. And he didn't get any girl. The only reward for his recklessness is no court martial.

This is the Saga of a Special Family. Starting with Anakin's 'virgin birth', he was prophesied as the one to restore balance to the Force. And his family: Luke, Leia, and Ben were strong in the force because they're related to him. And this trilogy of trilogies is all about this special family. Therefor, if Rey has especially strong Force sensitivity, she must be of Anakin's lineage (or of some other strong Force wielder... Obi-Wan? Sidious? Snoke?)... Wrong! She's a nobody. Which is the normal thing for this universe. Everyone who was part of the Jedi order before it was destroyed were random beings who were Force sensitive. You didn't have to be born into a special family to be a Jedi (or a Sith). And that is Rey. And the stable boy at the end. We're back to the roots of how the Jedi ordinarily works. The family dynasty was the outlier. But the trilogies tricked us into thinking it's only this family that's got the juice. Nope. Ordinary people can have it, too.

From a Certain Perspective. The story of Ben's turning turned into a he said-he said affair. First, it was Ben turning evil and killing everyone. Then it was Luke, sensing evil, tried to kill Ben, but he escaped. Then it was Luke, sensing evil, was going to kill Ben, but then repented, but Ben didn't know that and escaped. The story kept getting more complicated as seen from different sides.

What a Way to Go. No one should be surprised that Ben killed Snoke. No one. That's what Sith do. Sidious killed Plageius. Vader killed Sidious. The other Star Wars novels and series and comic books make this a regular practice. What was surprising was the ignominious death of a surprise slicing of the abdomen. But where is the deep lore of Snoke's origins? Where is the lengthy chess game extended through three movies to bring him down? Surprise!! He's not the big bad after all. And who cares about some unknown monster who's just a personification of evil? The real threat has an origin story, and conflict, and history with the heroes... Good ol' Ben. That will be a more satisfying battle than with Big Dark Force. And it was surprising how Big Dark Force got it in the end. And he deserved it after the non-stop belittling of his patsy. But, glad he's gone. Besides, there will be lots of novels and other media to delve into there to tell that story....

Porgs! We all assumed they were going to be a plot device. Something cute and annoying that, once befriended, will save the day in their own annoying way. Wrong! They were just cute and annoying. And that's all. Something for a Wookie, whom we can't understand, to interact with who don't have to repeat back what he said in some way to clue in the audience.

The rogue's a rogue. The codebreaker seemed like he was going to be a rogue with a heart of gold when he returned Rose's medallion. Wrong! He totally sold them out. (Anyone who's watched Rebels would see that coming, but not those who only know the trilogies.)

Send out the call, and they'll help us
. The resistance is alive and there are people at the edges just waiting for the call and they'll come to save us. Wrong! While we did see the resistance alive with the stable hands, they didn't have the resources to help. When Ep 9 comes, the resistance is going to be starting from scratch. Which is good. It builds on the power of hope and ordinary people to resist tyranny. But for now, the resistance is just the people on the Falcon. Underdogs indeed!

I'm right there with all of your points. I actually rather love the fact that Rey is a nobody and that Snoke didn't get some long backstory but was killed (in a cool way) to let Kylo be the big bad villain.

I have my qualms with certain things (the casino being too long/boring, the odd Leia saving herself scene) but overall thought the movie was very good. Surprised by all the negativity actually.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
You missed the point of much of the criticism...

It fails In basic storytelling...it has nothing to do with fan theories. Nothing. What do you say to those that are trying to make sense of this that had no fan theories? I think if your a tad more objective then that is a lot of what is being asked here...

Just a decent plot from a to b without nonsense and unnecessary filler...
Well, obviously you are not a TRUE fan of Star Wars because if you had read the new comic series, played the video games, and read novels like Bloodline, then all of this would make complete sense to you. All the motivations are clearly explained there.

The movie itself doesn't need to explain things to the audience, nor make sense by itself. Rather, the audience needs to educate themselves about what they are watching in order to comprehend the beauty of the force yin/yang story (Ren/Rey, see the poeticism of that?).

If you aren't feeling it, then it's because, obviously, you are a lowly low information consumer who isn't really a fan, and doesn't deserve to have an opinion at all.

And, further, your opinion isn't even popular, because it is making a lot of money and it gets an overall "A" rating from critics and viewers alike, outside of that nothing site, Rotten Tomatoes, where obviously the fan ranking is being trolled by those who haven't even seen the movie to enjoy the beauty of its presentation.
 

DonaldDoleWhip

Well-Known Member
I'm not really a Star Wars fan (don't recall seeing the original trilogy and only saw Episode I in theaters - it both bored and frightened me as a kid). That said, I knew enough of what happens from pop culture and Wikipedia summaries so figured I'd give the Disney-boosted trilogy a shot.

2 out of 3 movies down, and I just don't see why I'm supposed to care.

Han is dead - okay, that was a good moment. Luke is dead - so what? Rey doesn't care, she'll figure it out. Leia doesn't care. Nobody cares. Snoke's death was pretty cool, - but again, so what? Who is he, why does he have so much influence? Would've liked to know, but I'm not doing homework to figure it out.

As a casual moviegoer who wanted some popcorn entertainment and perhaps a reason to care about the franchise, I feel Disney's delivered on the former in spades. The latter, not really - it's as if they believe people will care just because it's Star Wars, which is inherently true to an extent, but won't turn me into a fan.

My rating: that was a movie, I liked the birds.
 

fractal

Well-Known Member
Only lightsaber duel I didn't "like", and it is a nitpick...was the matrix bullettime duck Luke did where it singed his beard.

That said, your concept would have been stronger. Sortof along the lines of...if Ren did go completely dark side, make him Anakin during Order 66 evil darkside. He kills EVERYTHING.

Hux comes in and mouths off...dead.

Officer asks why how supreme leader as he marches on the bridge ordering ground troops to attack...dead.

Make him truly evil...

But, nah, he's still conflicted Darth Emo..frankly.

I poke fun, I still think this movie did wonders for his character development. But...that doesn't mean I don't think it couldn't have been...better.
Yes! Also think Kylo should have killed Hux in that scene.
 

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