RandySavage
Well-Known Member
Hence the insertion of Rose and the Guardian duo from Rogue One.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
bclane
Well-Known Member
It was definitely the least enjoyable and most flawed of the series for me personally but still had some awesome moments that I love and definitely added to the mythology in some very positive ways. For example, I hated JarJar, the Midichlorians, and the Trade Federation but loved Darth Maul. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were freaking awesome as were the ship and planet designs. I loved the enhanced Force powers and improved special effects. And of course the score is epic and by itself worth the price of admission...imo. I enjoyed having another Star Wars movie in theatres and as always, I allowed myself to relive my childhood through it and tried my best to overlook the parts that bugged me. In the end, it’s still Star Wars! My kids love it and I enjoy watching it with them. It’s entertainment, not my religion. But yeah, i’m glad all the others are a lot better than Ep I imo.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Didn't work for rogue one and those were cool characters...don't think Rose and a pseudo love story with Finn is gonna go over much better...
...from a cultural standpoint...I'm not going out on a limb with that prediction
TROR
Well-Known Member
Rogue One is worse than The Phantom Menace
bclane
Well-Known Member
I thought Rogue One was fantastic. Though I hated the decision to not have an opening crawl and the score was lacking for me in places.
CJR
Well-Known Member
I enjoyed The Last Jedi, but I'm very happy that J.J. Abrams is going to be doing the final film in this trilogy.
My understanding is Johnson didn't collaborate with Abrams much to push the overall story in a certain direction, and you can very much tell. If I watched a whole trilogy by Rian Johnson, I would probably be disappointed if this film is an indication of his view in regards to what Star Wars is. Since Abrams doesn't have to commit to most of the issues Johnson put in place, this movie might pass for me. Now, if Abrams doesn't correct the misdirection (just my opinion) put in place in TLJ, I'll end up disappointed in the end. So, a lot is riding on the next film for me. If Abrams can close the book, so to speak, this will become a very well done middle piece.
That said, I'm not optimistic at all for Johnson's stand alone trilogy now. Although TLJ might end up as a good middle piece, for me, it'll be because of Abrams, not Johnson. Since he intentionally made issues laid out previously by Abrams to ultimately "mean nothing", it makes me question the motive in his stories. His stories seem like they would be boring and shallow, almost without heart. Had Abrams not laid out such a fantastic direction in TFA, I think TLJ would have been terrible. Sure, a lot that he did could lead things in "a new direction", but is that good? I don't know. Probably not. I'm not saying that I won't see his new trilogy in theaters, but I will be much more hesitant now than I would have been before I saw TLJ. Maybe he'll surprise me, I hope he does, but he had a free pass until now. Just because they'll slap the Star Wars logo onto his trilogy doesn't mean I will watch it, at least right away. He'll have to earn that viewing. I don't want to see random characters doing random things "just because". If that's his approach, he will be in the same category as Michael Bay in my eyes.
Since his hands are now off this trilogy now, I'm hopeful it'll end up well. Abrams usually does a great job, so I'm optimistic still about the future of SW.
My understanding is Johnson didn't collaborate with Abrams much to push the overall story in a certain direction, and you can very much tell. If I watched a whole trilogy by Rian Johnson, I would probably be disappointed if this film is an indication of his view in regards to what Star Wars is. Since Abrams doesn't have to commit to most of the issues Johnson put in place, this movie might pass for me. Now, if Abrams doesn't correct the misdirection (just my opinion) put in place in TLJ, I'll end up disappointed in the end. So, a lot is riding on the next film for me. If Abrams can close the book, so to speak, this will become a very well done middle piece.
That said, I'm not optimistic at all for Johnson's stand alone trilogy now. Although TLJ might end up as a good middle piece, for me, it'll be because of Abrams, not Johnson. Since he intentionally made issues laid out previously by Abrams to ultimately "mean nothing", it makes me question the motive in his stories. His stories seem like they would be boring and shallow, almost without heart. Had Abrams not laid out such a fantastic direction in TFA, I think TLJ would have been terrible. Sure, a lot that he did could lead things in "a new direction", but is that good? I don't know. Probably not. I'm not saying that I won't see his new trilogy in theaters, but I will be much more hesitant now than I would have been before I saw TLJ. Maybe he'll surprise me, I hope he does, but he had a free pass until now. Just because they'll slap the Star Wars logo onto his trilogy doesn't mean I will watch it, at least right away. He'll have to earn that viewing. I don't want to see random characters doing random things "just because". If that's his approach, he will be in the same category as Michael Bay in my eyes.
Since his hands are now off this trilogy now, I'm hopeful it'll end up well. Abrams usually does a great job, so I'm optimistic still about the future of SW.
becca_
Well-Known Member
Totally agree about Rey's parents - I 100% feel like Kylo was lying. He was quick to go back to his old ways after him & Rey banded together/he killed his leader... I don't trust much of what he says/does.
I slightly agree about the romance - but I am curious why you think, "Just doesn't work. I don't agree with it, but I totally get why in today's world."
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
Hah! What's your opinon on Verbinski's "Lone Ranger"...
Seemed forced. Finn just met her. There's more, but that's where I'll stop.
TROR
Well-Known Member
An absolute mess full of uncharming racism, anti-Americanism, and absolutely nothing I love about the classic Lone Ranger series. At least from what I remember, I've only seen it once.
I think the decision to not have any characters was its greatest problem. I remember seeing it the first time in theaters and disliking everything about it except for the space battle at the end, but then I went to see it again and I didn't even like that part.
bclane
Well-Known Member
I was hoping for a Finn/Rey romance myself, but as far as Finn/Rose goes, she was already a fan of his before they met. And in reality, romance can take less time to develop when people go through highly stressful life and death situations together, especially where they have to depend on each other completely to survive. Finally, you have a situation where an ex-storm trooper, who was basically just a number to a war machine, now suddenly has the admiration/respect and affection of a woman who just risked her life to save him. He seemed surprised more than anything by the kiss but I can see things developing from there.
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
That follows. I ask because Rogue One and Lone Ranger were my two favorite movies of the last 5+ years... the only theater-going experiences that gave me goosebumps.
Good thing we live in world that gives you Phantom Menace and me Rogue One.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
bclane
Well-Known Member
I’m gonna assume you meant to include the word “survive” after characters (please correct me if I’m wrong). Assuming that’s what you meant, I would have loved to see some characters survive as well as I really enjoyed them, but I don’t think that would have fit the story as well. What I mean is, if they had survived, you have to wonder why they were missing from Episode IV. I actually admire Disney for not following the easy money trail and using them to launch a new Rogue One trilogy. This felt more honest to the story.
Their relationship did not add to the story. Rose risked killing not only Finn (who btw was a janitor first), but herself as well. For what? I'd rather had seen Finn sacrifice himself to save the remaining Rebels. That would have been much more dramatic.
TROR
Well-Known Member
No, I mean there were no characters. The movie had actors playing parts. The lack of character in these characters caused me to have no emotional investment in them or what happened to them. Was seeing the Hammerhead Corvette smash into the Star Destroyer causing it to crash into another Star Destroyer? Well, yeah, duh. But a movie can't just be that. A movie needs good solid characters to work with. The only reason I care about that visual, even, is because it's something I'm familiar with. If I had never seen a Star Wars movie, and I didn't love the Original Trilogy, then why would I have cared about that? This movie only stands if you're strongly familiar with Star Wars and even then it doesn't work.
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
I might apply the above, verbatum, to all the SW movies outside the originals & R1. For me, R1 had likable, believable interesting characters who naturally inhabited their roles (delivering dialogue that felt natural - a rarity in new SW) that I cared about by film's end. I even cared about Jimmy Smits character for the first time! And it enhanced Mon Mothma & Tarkin, so their characters in the originals have greater depth.
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bclane
Well-Known Member
I think it may end up being more of a set up for IX than just a touching moment in VIII, but even if not, it adds to the story imo. In that scene on Crait, you have Finn trying to be a hero, Rose being a hero, and of course her stopping Finn from blowing up the giant siege cannon leaves room for Luke to save everyone. One of my favorite over reaching themes of Star Wars has always been people standing up and being the hero that is needed in the moment. In VIII we see our heroes failing over and over again but that doesn’t stop them from trying to do what they believe is right. Hopefully the Rose Finn thing will have a bigger payoff in the next one though.
bclane
Well-Known Member
Oh ok gotcha. Considering I actually shed a couple tears when K-2 died a hero’s death, I guess we just see things differently. I loved the Rogue One characters. To each their own.
To each his own. I hope there will not be a focus on two supporting characters just for the sake of diversity. Again, it just doesn't fit or help the story progress forward.
When the credits rolled on TFA, I felt underwhelmed.
After R1, I was excited again thinking that maybe things were back on track.
Nope. TLJ just doesn't have that spark. The most emotional parts were when Poe touched Leia's hand and the caption at the end of movie dedicated to Carrie Fisher.
If this is the best that Rian Johnson can do, then I really fear for the future of Star Wars. We've already seen what JJ can do and that's carbon copy the first ever SW movie. And it worked. I guess doing what's right and what's profitable are not the same.
Maybe it is time forthe Jedi Star Wars to end.
When the credits rolled on TFA, I felt underwhelmed.
After R1, I was excited again thinking that maybe things were back on track.
Nope. TLJ just doesn't have that spark. The most emotional parts were when Poe touched Leia's hand and the caption at the end of movie dedicated to Carrie Fisher.
If this is the best that Rian Johnson can do, then I really fear for the future of Star Wars. We've already seen what JJ can do and that's carbon copy the first ever SW movie. And it worked. I guess doing what's right and what's profitable are not the same.
Maybe it is time for