Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[tk924]

Gonna go ahead and throw my 2 cents worth in. Some of this comes from other articles that just remind me of the things that I so easily forgot.

Rey:
I do not buy about what Kylo Ren says to her that her parents are "nobodies". It just doesn't fit. We were told we'd find out WHO her parents were. All we know is WHAT her parents were. Big, big difference.
And how does she learn to be a pilot, a mechanic, not to mention a Jedi, so fast? All she's done her entire life is scavenge parts.
And the cave seen made no sense whatsoever. She asks to know who her parents are and you initially see two figures walking toward her only to combine into one... and it's her?! Total waste.

Green Milk:
Although a throw back to blue milk in ANH, totally unnecessary. And disgusting.

Maz Kanata:
Yet another unanswered question from TFA: How'd she get Luke's lightsaber? Her part in TLJ... not needed if they had no intention of answering that question.

Finn and Rose:
Their romance is unnecessary. Just doesn't work. I don't agree with it, but I totally get why in today's world. I'd like to clip that part out of the movie altogether.
And why are they arrested for a parking violation? Really?

Luke:
What killed him? Age? Over exertion? Suicide? Or did he really die? Force ghost Luke in IX? At this point, I hope not.
Although this quote from Mark Hamill may provide some insight: "Well, I'm still in denial. I just think he transported somewhere else... The first thing I said was, 'Can't you wait and do this in Episode IX?'"

Yoda:
Nice to see another OT character, but still on the fence about that whole sequence. Maybe additional viewings will make it better.

Snoke:
Supposed to be one of the most powerful villains ever. Nope, Kylo (a sith apprentice) cuts hims down with ease. You mean to tell me Snoke did not sense Luke's lightsaber (sitting right next to him!!) moving? Yeah, no.

Knights of Ren:
Um, still waiting. Could they have been the Praetorian guards? Maybe. But we'll never know.

Captain Phasma:
Way underused... AGAIN! Did no one hear people complain about that from TFA? If they didn't, not good. If they did, again. Not good.
She got bested by Finn, the janitor. Yikes.

Rian Johnson:
I've seen numerous, different articles titled, Last Jedi director explains...(insert one of many controversial topics).
Why does he have to explain so much after the fact?

Deleted scenes:
Oh, we'll have to discuss those later. Wow.


I did like the humor. Not all of it, but most.
The Kylo and Rey lightsaber battle with the guards. Nice.
My current list of the DSW movies:
Rogue One
TFA
TLJ
I think Garth Edwards would have been a better choice for a new SW trilogy.

And that's my, probably not all, 2 cents worth.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is one of the biggest things I think he does really well and oddly something I hear people criticize. The resource tracking strikes me as accurate. After watching a movie full of Poe blowing 3/4 of their fleet, their frigates being dropped off one by one and what struck me as potentially too long of a period of time as they were slowly picking off transporter after transporter - I buy that all of the resistance remaining fit into the Millennium Falcon.

A less worthy director would have them fly off victorious in a massive fleet. The resistance was small beans from the start.

Edit: I also liked that there were no mystery unaccounted resources to save the day for the resistance. The call more seemed to be an SOS for potential sympathy.

This Is where I completely disagree...all of it.

As far as the last part...there was a prequel sized nonsense shoved in there...and I can't dumb myself down enough to give it any license. Unexplained name dropping.

Never ever happened in the OT...not once...all loose ends were tied off. That'a how a story works if it's decent.

This shouldn't be this difficult.

 

[bclane]

I'm
Not disputing any of your points...

But my question is the entire resistance/first order premise.

Why would anyone who fought an evil, tyrannical wizard who not only took down a galactic wide governement...but built the exact same one with complete oppression on top of it...ever demilitarize and shut down?

It makes no damn sense. The "David and Goliath" money was IV...did you not see a fleet and a ton of metal in VI?

And I know there's books (the movie going audience should not be required to read them...stupid plan) that discuss Aftermath...but even in the old kicked out EU and the new official stuff, the war did not end at Death Star 2.

The human "parallel" would be between the world wars...but it doesn't fit. The British and French did not go pacifist...they had poor leadership...it's not accurate enough for a movie franchise to be understood.

Not to tangent

It makes perfect sense to me that the New Republic would demilitarize (there was a massive reduction) after the death of the Emperor since he was the one behind the grand army in the first place. Obviously not everyone supported this and there was all manner of uprisings and civil disputes over how things should run in the aftermath of the Empire’s fall. As time went by the First Order was able to organize itself and this is why Leia put together the Resistance (when the New Republic basically didn’t want to continue the fight). Someone had to stand up to the bad guys!

Also, I think that one of the coolest things about the Star Wars universe is how fully fleshed out things really are beyond just what’s in the movies. You don’t need to read the other stuff to understand the basic premise of the new movies (after the fall of the Empire a new threat emerged out of its ashes and Leia and the rebels are still fighting the good fight) but it’s there if you want to dig deeper into it. All imo of course. Anyway, i’m blessed to be Mickey’s target audience and don’t allow the few minor complaints I have to stand in my way of thoroughly enjoying/celebrating the fact that a new Star Wars film is currently in theatres. And the bonus is that the new movie completely shocked/surprised me throughout while fully retaining the heart of Star Wars. It’s a great time to be a geek!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Gonna go ahead and throw my 2 cents worth in. Some of this comes from other articles that just remind me of the things that I so easily forgot.

Rey:
I do not buy about what Kylo Ren says to her that her parents are "nobodies". It just doesn't fit. We were told we'd find out WHO her parents were. All we know is WHAT her parents were. Big, big difference.
And how does she learn to be a pilot, a mechanic, not to mention a Jedi, so fast? All she's done her entire life is scavenge parts.
And the cave seen made no sense whatsoever. She asks to know who her parents are and you initially see two figures walking toward her only to combine into one... and it's her?! Total waste.

Green Milk:
Although a throw back to blue milk in ANH, totally unnecessary. And disgusting.

Maz Kanata:
Yet another unanswered question from TFA: How'd she get Luke's lightsaber? Her part in TLJ... not needed if they had no intention of answering that question.

Finn and Rose:
Their romance is unnecessary. Just doesn't work. I don't agree with it, but I totally get why in today's world. I'd like to clip that part out of the movie altogether.
And why are they arrested for a parking violation? Really?

Luke:
What killed him? Age? Over exertion? Suicide? Or did he really die? Force ghost Luke in IX? At this point, I hope not.
Although this quote from Mark Hamill may provide some insight: "Well, I'm still in denial. I just think he transported somewhere else... The first thing I said was, 'Can't you wait and do this in Episode IX?'"

Yoda:
Nice to see another OT character, but still on the fence about that whole sequence. Maybe additional viewings will make it better.

Snoke:
Supposed to be one of the most powerful villains ever. Nope, Kylo (a sith apprentice) cuts hims down with ease. You mean to tell me Snoke did not sense Luke's lightsaber (sitting right next to him!!) moving? Yeah, no.

Rian Johnson:
I've seen numerous, different articles titled, Last Jedi director explains...(insert one of many controversial topics).
Why does he have to explain so much after the fact?

Deleted scenes:
Oh, we'll have to discuss those later. Wow.


I did like the humor. Not all of it, but most.
The Kylo and Rey lightsaber battle with the guards. Nice.
My current list of the DSW movies:
Rogue One
TFA
TLJ
I think Garth Edwards would have been a better choice for a new SW trilogy.

And that's my, probably not all, 2 cents worth.

I could add to all these points...but I don't. Instead I would ask that anyone thinking this is a great movie to counter them? Without critic reviews or box office receipts....we've all seen it.

But I will address Yoda:

I love that they went mercurial and puppet...that was cool. And the exchange was good...

But...there is something missing that's not gonna hold up well..it's just a HUGE thing.

Has rian Johnson seen Star Wars???

 

[MisterPenguin]

I was talking about TFA and interested how this will translate. Do you remember the narrative about domestic vs international gross during its release?

Well, I certainly hope that the international market for TLJ doesn't sputter out like the measly $1.1 billion international take for TFA.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Remember, it's a long standing tradition for the SW trilogies to have unanswered questions and gaping plot holes...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It makes perfect sense to me that the New Republic would demilitarize (there was a massive reduction) after the death of the Emperor since he was the one behind the grand army in the first place. Obviously not everyone supported this and there was all manner of uprisings and civil disputes over how things should run in the aftermath of the Empire’s fall. As time went by the First Order was able to organize itself and this is why Leia put together the Resistance (when the New Republic basically didn’t want to continue the fight). Someone had to stand up to the bad guys!

Also, I think that one of the coolest things about the Star Wars universe is how fully fleshed out things really are beyond just what’s in the movies. You don’t need to read the other stuff to understand the basic premise of the new movies (after the fall of the Empire a new threat emerged out of its ashes and Leia and the rebels are still fighting the good fight) but it’s there if you want to dig deeper into it. All imo of course. Anyway, i’m blessed to be Mickey’s target audience and don’t allow the few minor complaints I have to stand in my way of thoroughly enjoying/celebrating the fact that a new Star Wars film is currently in theatres. And the bonus is that the new movie completely shocked/surprised me throughout while fully retaining the heart of Star Wars. It’s a great time to be a geek!

Perhaps it makes sense offscreen...but they didn't do enough onscreen to make it resonate.

I feel more of a believable connection to Jason Bourne at this point...ridiculous.

These complaints are not "minor" and it's a grave mistake to think that Mickey is always right.

And this is a me thing...so I acknowledge that...but if they were gonna pick one OT character to "steward" the 3 movie ark...they picked the wrong one and it's obvious. I'm not talking about what happened 364 days ago...I'm talking about 2013-2014 when it was obvious it wasn't working.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Remember, it's a long standing tradition for the SW trilogies to have unanswered questions and gaping plot holes...

Yon went prequels?

And while the original trilogy wasn't perfect...there's definitely some choppy especially in ANH...but I would ask for anything significant that didn't get on screen exposition?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, I certainly hope that the international market for TLJ doesn't sputter out like the measly $1.1 billion international take for TFA.

You mean the 50/50 split and very little from China...which is not the Hollywood recipe these days?

I'll assume you're just being sarcastic with me and not uniformed. Anybody can look up numbers on google.

I'm not claiming they aren't gonna make a fortune...like disney parks they can coast for quite awhile still...

But the last jedi will make less - you would think - and the trend will be significant...one way or another

 

[21stamps]

Rogue one did "ok" with some rough edges...

The "episodes" have not come close.

While the second one was better in some ways...it had some generally cringe moments and I don't believe it to hold up any better than TFA did after first viewing. If my 9 years old said "that was dumb" after it was over and I held my tongue (didn't want him to be disappointed...and I actually believed the reviews prior)...then that doesn't bode well.

Star wars will be marginalized in the long run if they don't move away from this pattern of treating the audience like idiots...and that's not good for any fans...or disney for that matter.

Admit it...how many times have you been able to watch the force awakens out of the theater?
...it's like avatar.

And I wasn't thinking this at first...but isn't this basically empire rehashed with one scene from jedi mixed in and an ending that just set the dials do zero again? Kinda...sorta...mostly

We watched TFA in the theater on opening night, and pre ordered the DVD for it's release. That movie has been played several times over the past few years in my house.

Can't wait to see it in Imax.

2nd or 3rd place on the SW list for me.

We watched it on IMAX 3D...it was good, but I think I’ll save a few dollars and go back to regular 3D next time.

Side note- we went to see Coco a week or two ago.. last minute and picked seats in a non-3D theater, 3D didn’t have my favorite spot open..order seats and head to the theater.
The movie is about to start and my son exclaims-
“Oh no! Mom, we didn’t get glasses!”
“It’s ok, we don’t need them. This movie isn’t in 3D.”

“Wait, you can watch a movie at a theater without glasses? I didn’t know that. Weird.”

#generationgap

 

[21stamps]

Now that I think about it.. I should have also told him that,” back in my day”, we didn’t have reserved seating, large plush reclining seats, or large cup holders attached. The struggle was real back then, ...especially when the movie wasn’t very good.

You youngins’ are so spoiled.

 

[bclane]

Perhaps it makes sense offscreen...but they didn't do enough onscreen to make it resonate.

I feel more of a believable connection to Jason Bourne at this point...ridiculous.

These complaints are not "minor" and it's a grave mistake to think that Mickey is always right.

And this is a me thing...so I acknowledge that...but if they were gonna pick one OT character to "steward" the 3 movie ark...they picked the wrong one and it's obvious. I'm not talking about what happened 364 days ago...I'm talking about 2013-2014 when it was obvious it wasn't working.

They are minor to me...unless you think your opinion of my complaints is more important than my opinion of my own complaints...

If’s fine that you don’t like the new movies. Your loss not mine. I actually think they are fantastic stories that enrich my life and provide yet another wonderful adventure for me to enjoy with my family and friends.

 

[MisterPenguin]

You mean the 50/50 split and very little from China...which is not the Hollywood recipe these days?

I'll assume you're just being sarcastic with me and not uniformed. Anybody can look up numbers on google.

I'm not claiming they aren't gonna make a fortune...like disney parks they can coast for quite awhile still...

But the last jedi will make less - you would think - and the trend will be significant...one way or another

There were plenty of movies that did very well domestically that didn't do a huge amount more internationally...

Sorry. But you're the uniformed one. Take off that uniform!

 

[Gomer]

There were plenty of movies that did very well domestically that didn't do a huge amount more internationally...

View attachment 251165

Sorry. But you're the uniformed one. Take off that uniform!

Star Wars generally under performs internationally against other modern franchises due to relative lack of interest in China. The originals were not easily available in China during their initial release, so there is no ingrained cultural love for the franchise like there is in other parts of the world. So it generally does well, but not as well there. Which is why domestic numbers for SW generally come in much higher relative to the WW total. China will likely drag the international number on this one a bit as well.

 

[kong1802]

I feel more of a believable connection to Jason Bourne at this point...ridiculous.

Lmao

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There were plenty of movies that did very well domestically that didn't do a huge amount more internationally...

View attachment 251165

Sorry. But you're the uniformed one. Take off that uniform!

Look at that chart...especially 2-5...

Also notice what studio studio/type of movie comprises the majority of what you circled?

Can you interpret/extrapolate the data?...like I did.

I'm not even making a prediction...just highlighting something to watch.

If I had to make a prediction...I'd say the split here is gonna be $650/$650 or so and end up about $1.3-4 total...

Not bad for Bob...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Star Wars generally under performs internationally against other modern franchises due to relative lack of interest in China. The originals were not easily available in China during their initial release, so there is no ingrained cultural love for the franchise like there is in other parts of the world. So it generally does well, but not as well there. Which is why domestic numbers for SW generally come in much higher relative to the WW total. China will likely drag the international number on this one a bit as well.

Yep...that was the point...but it's fake news unless you post a chart and draw on it with crayon...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They are minor to me...unless you think your opinion of my complaints is more important than my opinion of my own complaints...

If’s fine that you don’t like the new movies. Your loss not mine. I actually think they are fantastic stories that enrich my life and provide yet another wonderful adventure for me to enjoy with my family and friends.

What did you think of the phantom menace?

 

[Gomer]

Look at that chart...especially 2-5...

Also notice what studio studio/type of movie comprises the majority of what you circled?

Can you interpret/extrapolate the data?...like I did.

I'm not even making a prediction...just highlighting something to watch.

If I had to make a prediction...I'd say the split here is gonna be $650/$650 or so and end up about $1.3-4 total...

Not bad for Bob...

Historically, Movies with an "A" Cinemascore have an average 3.6x modifier off opening weekend. Which would end TLJ's haul at 792 domestically. I doubt it will get that high personally (even though I am a fan of the movie and don't have the same issues some here have, I realize it isn't for everyone so there will be some loss in repeat viewings).

My guess would be finishing around 700 (maybe just south depending on what Jumanji does this weekend). Ahead of Avatar with a global in the $1.5-1.6b range.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Historically, Movies with an "A" Cinemascore have an average 3.6x modifier off opening weekend. Which would end TLJ's haul at 792 domestically. I doubt it will get that high personally (even though I am a fan of the movie and don't have the same issues some here have, I realize it isn't for everyone so there will be some loss in repeat viewings).

My guess would be finishing around 700 (maybe just south depending on what Jumanji does this weekend). Ahead of Avatar with a global in the $1.5-1.6b range.

I think that is reasonable...sequels do fall off unless they are based off a sleeper hit like pirates.

I would say if you combine yours and mine...1.3-1.6...that represents the best and worst case scenario in my view.

But still...if you combine TFA and R1....and compare it to TLJ and what's gonna come in the spring...it is a definite "arrow down" scenario for disney. Something to watch...I don't need any charts to not address my premise, however.