Star Wars Land announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[RSoxNo1]

I took the liberty of comparing the concept artwork for the 2 lands. I know the controversy of concept versus end-result, but there always (in my opinion, ref. my Feb 10 post in Avatar construction progress) seem to be quite a lot "in there" (as discussed somewhere earlier in one of the many DHS-treads).
Sooo, I'm not trying to prove anything, just trying to look into the evidence at hand. Here are the right-hand end of SWL's concept and the left-hand side of the newest TSL's concept art:
View attachment 136776
Any resemblance in there or something different (in the TSL side)?
OBE

It actually looks like the Star Tours queue even though that's not the right spot.

 

[No Name]

January would be recent. If someone has heard this year, from an actual source connected enough to the Star Wars project, so that the info isn't just recycled second-hand, I'll certainly believe them.

But, I don't think anyone is talking. I am totally convinced the plan was Indy and the parking lots. I just highly suspect that is no longer the case.



I was under the impression the total for the redo was approved at the board level? Would they cut down the approved ~2.8 billion, just for the sake of cutting? It sounds more like TSL was seriously over-running its allotment of the 2.8 billion and that was the reason for its cuts, not to save on 2.8, but to not exceed it with what they have planned for the money.

Everyone likes to think or believe that once something is greenlit, that's it, the money is approved and no cuts to the budget will be made. And that is almost always the case in the foreign parks (Shanghai included) but not usually the case for the US parks, where Disney doesn't have to agree on anything with other partners. For example, Seven Dwarfs Mine train was surely greenlit and announced, and then a show scene got cut after the fact. And then the animatronics were reportedly plussed at some later point.

Also why we see non-IP attractions still being built in these other parks, but not really in the US.

Obviously if something is going over budget, there might have to be cuts made just to stick to a certain amount, which very well could be the case for TSL. And that is not as bad. Money being hacked away from the overall redo is what would be very bad.

2.8 million sounds great, but Disney seems to be in its cheapest phase in a while (cheap on quality, not price). What's the easier option? Scraping up every penny from daily operations and thinning that out to the point where it harms the experience. Or just cutting $100 million from something that won't open till Iger and maybe Chapek are gone? So that part concerns me, because this is a crucial time, and it's not looking the best. Once Star Wars land is off the ground, more should be safe from the chopping block, but right now, the stars are not lining up the way they should be, and that worries me.

Edit: I'll try to dig up some stuff I remember being said from this year.

 

[Thanks phoenicians]

I still think it would make much more sense thematically to have swl from star tours on to the the north and east including indy. If swl went in the lma area you'd have muppets courtyard (which i'd be surprised if its leaving but i could be wrong) separating two star wars areas/rides. Also if phase 3 is pixar i'd much rather see it go in an area of the park near the other pixar ip's. As much as I hate to say it but i could handle waiting an extra 2 years for a well done phase 3 that is not a copied land like cars land even though it is very nice.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

Something like this perhaps. The red line is the main path into SWL, but if you ride star tours prior to entering SWL, you exit the ride by using the blue path. Orange of course is where SWL would be located. I think this could work, I actually prefer it located here rather than Indy/parking lot area.

View attachment 136995

Not a bad idea. That way it could transition from a movie set at Star Tours to the real thing in Star Wars Land. But I'd still prefer it to be in the parking lot / Indy area.

 

[danlb_2000]

Ignohippo, possibly Steve, and others are saying it's going in the front, sure. But Marni is telling a very different tale about this entire thing (other than cuts occuring ). So we have people saying both, and Disney has given overwhelming evidence in favor of the latter, which makes me lean toward the back of the park being the spot.

Bit off of this topic, but I'd rather Marni be correct here because he also hinted that the millenium falcon ride has actual motion rather than being purely a simulator. And that would be cool. Also, Ignohippo had a more negative outlook on the attractions and said that buildings would be reused for the land. I'd rather them start from stratch, personally, just so that everything is sparkling new.

And yeah, of course I want a phase three, but if they really are hacking at Toy Story Land's budget and making cuts all over the place... I see a 1% chance of phase 3 beginning construction under Chapek or even under Iger. New management gives me hope. Outside of tiki rooms. Overall though, I'd truly and honestly rather see two high quality, groundbreaking lands than three that are all "almost there."



How recent? Marni and Ignohippo said some things after the Disneyland 60 announcement. Steve regularly implies which rumors he has heard or believes. Some other people may have said some stuff, but they are the same people who say WDI is so cheap and is ruining the company, when WDI does not determine their budget and rarely has a say on what IPs are used. So I don't trust that they have good (or any) sources. But yes, there have been a lack of comments recently.

I too hope someone is bright enough to realize that cutting phase 3, or even cutting down on Star Wars land plans, is a bad idea. This isn't just some sort of fanboy wish. It makes financial sense for the company. Was the DCA project successful? Yes. Was WWoHP successful? Oh, of course. Would the same be true for Hollywood Studios, if it is of the same quality? You betcha! The precident is certainly there.

Martin is saying the same thing as others. He is still hearing SWL in the front of the park, but that the plan could have changed...

From Sunday:

So far as I knew Echo lake would not change.

I was told to expect SWL to use Indy, the backstage area behind Indy, and part of the Television lot.

 

[Jae99]

I am by no means an expert when it comes to Disney and theme park planning. But, could it be possible that they decided to move the location of SWL to the SOA/LMA area of the park to avoid having to build the parking structures before they could begin major construction of SWL.

Many of the insiders/experts have inclined that SWL was going to be located in Echo Lake/Indy area and extend into the parking lot. Would Disney be able to stretch the allocated budget for the expansions by moving the location SWL and reduce the amount of infrastructure needed for the expansion?

 

[danlb_2000]

I am by no means an expert when it comes to Disney and theme park planning. But, could it be possible that they decided to move the location of SWL to the SOA/LMA area of the park to avoid having to build the parking structures before they could begin major construction of SWL.

Many of the insiders/experts have inclined that SWL was going to be located in Echo Lake/Indy area and extend into the parking lot. Would Disney be able to stretch the allocated budget for the expansions by moving the location SWL and reduce the amount of infrastructure needed for the expansion?

Moving SWL to the back would definitely reduce the amount of new parking needed and would allow them to start on it sooner, so it's definitely a possibility.

 

[No Name]

Martin is saying the same thing as others. He is still hearing SWL in the front of the park, but that the plan could have changed...

From Sunday:

True, although none of the insiders seem to be commenting. Feel free to correct me as I may have missed a recent comment on the matter.

At page 3 of this very recent thread, it gets interesting: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/where-would-phase-3-go.911960/page-3

And there's this from a while back, starting from page 21: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...nd-preview-on-abc.909237/page-21#post-7096756

So I really have no idea what to believe at this point. With the cuts around the parks, it would not at all surprise me if phase 3 has been cut as well and Star Wars is now going in the back.

A thought is that maybe the lift hill part of the slinky dog coaster was changed because of the change in other park plans. Maybe, if Star Wars land is going into a different spot, that initial track plan would've provided unwanted views? I really don't see the launched start as being a cut or a change that needed to happen because of the other cuts, so it could be sight lines. Just a thought.

Also, a thing to note is that there is a cheerleader arena thing being built at Wide World of Sports. That seems like it would allow for the destruction of the Indy theater... though I don't know when that WWoS thing is projected to open.

It's all very confusing, and from the conversations and timeline of events, it's too much for me to try to follow this all. There are a million scenarios of what a million things might mean. So I'm probably gonna just sit back and watch the waves crash upon the shore. And hopefully those waves will leave something on the sand.

 

[Ignohippo]

Moving SWL to the back would definitely reduce the amount of new parking needed and would allow them to start on it sooner, so it's definitely a possibility.

...and unfortunately takes up the very best site in the park for expansion. Using Echo Lake for SW preserved all of that land for something else.

This is such a huge blow. I don't know anything factually, but it seems we've lost an enormously amazing expansion here. I have a feeling the bean counters saw the opportunity to slash $500 million+ from the budget and took it. Jeez, they're saving even more if it also reduces the size of the new garage by 50%.

It would seem Phase 3 has probably changed from a fantastic potential 'land' to most likely a copy of the Indy ride (most likely where Star Tours or Indy Stunt Show stands now). The potential plans for Phase 3 I heard of were truly amazing. They're obviously off the table now if SW has been moved to that area. None of the concepts would work anywhere else.

 

[BrianLo]

At page 3 of this very recent thread, it gets interesting: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/where-would-phase-3-go.911960/page-3

Ha - thanks. I didn't bother opening Pam's thread, I had no idea it was stuffed with all the information I was looking for. Could have saved myself a lot of time.

So the insiders are (or at least some of them) now saying SOA/LMA is a possibility.


I'll go back to my original suspicions:

1. Star Wars was moved to SOA/LMA on the back of the mandate to get it done quicker in WDW. When Star Wars became 'Phase 2' it really made no sense to preserve the location.
2. Operationally building Star Wars in the parking lots/Indy required a lot more lead time with parking garages and no longer had the support of a Toy Story land being open before construction began.
3. The only argument for the front of the park is Star Tours, and IMO that's a terrible argument as I think the two should be physically separated as in Disneyland. They don't thematically gel other than "Star Wars".

I don't think this means much for Phase 3 personally. I think the movement is to get Star Wars done faster and not operationally destroy the park. I don't think it's a sign Phase 3 is being cancelled, it's simply a hangover from when Phase 3 was originally Phase 2 (and was Carsland).

Unlike most projects, the budget on this has been approved upfront. It's the content that may still change and be fudged to fit that budget.

Of course, Shanghai is looming...

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

...and unfortunately takes up the very best site in the park for expansion. Using Echo Lake for SW preserved all of that land for something else.

This is such a huge blow. I don't know anything factually, but it seems we've lost an enormously amazing expansion here. I have a feeling the bean counters saw the opportunity to slash $500 million+ from the budget and took it. Jeez, they're saving even more if it also reduces the size of the new garage by 50%.

It would seem Phase 3 has probably changed from a fantastic potential 'land' to most likely a copy of the Indy ride (most likely where Star Tours or Indy Stunt Show stands now). The potential plans for Phase 3 I heard of were truly amazing. They're obviously off the table now if SW has been moved to that area. None of the concepts would work anywhere else.

Does anyone have any idea when Disney will finally release details on where SWL will be at DHS? It's crazy that they announce the land and then don't offer a simple map update. Anyone who can give us at least alittle bit of information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[doctornick]

I'll point out that the SW to SoA talk has probably gotten out of hand and seems to center on relatively flimsy evidence -- a limited piece of concept art not even related to Star Wars and the notion that they closed LMA/SoA off which "might" indicate building in that area, while all of Echo Lake remains open.

Thinking about it in reverse and playing devil's advocate, let's say SW is going to Echo Lake -- what would you expect to be different? It's hard to say "yes" really, so I tend to think this is grasping at straws until someone hears something more definitive. If SW is going into the SoA area, we'll likely know soon enough.

I remain optimistic that SW is going into Echo Lake. I certainly hope it does for a couple of reasons: (1) connects to Star Tours which makes sense and will keep that attraction around, (2) allows expansion into the parking lot which provides much needed increases of the park footprint and (3) keeps SoA wide open for additional expansion (in fact, would be a gaping need given the layout of the park) which would mean Phase 3 is still on track.

As for the cuts to TSL, I actually view that as a potential good indicator for Phase 3. If it was just cost cutting, the easy thing is just cutting out Phase 3 and saving that $400M or whatever. That's a huge saving and you might as well just let TSL proceed as planned -- what's a couple of tens of millions here and there? Plus, leaving the trenches which would be a longer build, would just spread out costs, always great for the beancounters. No, instead, we hear that the costs are being scrutinized and people are being kept to the budgets that exists rather than allowing overruns. Doing that for the opening build sets an important tone and makes sure that cost overruns don't impact other budgeted things (e.g. Phase 3). I feel like it is more like an opening salvo from management: We gave you a budget, now stick to it and deliver what was promised for that price.

Also, there's always going to be cuts and things getting scaled back, but the Shanghai related stuff seems to be impacting operations and daily management/recurring costs -- to balance the books as money gets plowed in for the big opening in Shanghai -- as opposed to long term capital projects. But we'll see.

 

[twebber55]

Ha - thanks. I didn't bother opening Pam's thread, I had no idea it was stuffed with all the information I was looking for. Could have saved myself a lot of time.

So the insiders are (or at least some of them) now saying SOA/LMA is a possibility.


I'll go back to my original suspicions:

1. Star Wars was moved to SOA/LMA on the back of the mandate to get it done quicker in WDW. When Star Wars became 'Phase 2' it really made no sense to preserve the location.
2. Operationally building Star Wars in the parking lots/Indy required a lot more lead time with parking garages and no longer had the support of a Toy Story land being open before construction began.
3. The only argument for the front of the park is Star Tours, and IMO that's a terrible argument as I think the two should be physically separated as in Disneyland. They don't thematically gel other than "Star Wars".

I don't think this means much for Phase 3 personally. I think the movement is to get Star Wars done faster and not operationally destroy the park. I don't think it's a sign Phase 3 is being cancelled, it's simply a hangover from when Phase 3 was originally Phase 2 (and was Carsland).

Unlike most projects, the budget on this has been approved upfront. It's the content that may still change and be fudged to fit that budget.

Of course, Shanghai is looming...

and as always i completely agree with you

 

[No Name]

Ha - thanks. I didn't bother opening Pam's thread, I had no idea it was stuffed with all the information I was looking for. Could have saved myself a lot of time.

So the insiders are (or at least some of them) now saying SOA/LMA is a possibility.


I'll go back to my original suspicions:

1. Star Wars was moved to SOA/LMA on the back of the mandate to get it done quicker in WDW. When Star Wars became 'Phase 2' it really made no sense to preserve the location.
2. Operationally building Star Wars in the parking lots/Indy required a lot more lead time with parking garages and no longer had the support of a Toy Story land being open before construction began.
3. The only argument for the front of the park is Star Tours, and IMO that's a terrible argument as I think the two should be physically separated as in Disneyland. They don't thematically gel other than "Star Wars".

I don't think this means much for Phase 3 personally. I think the movement is to get Star Wars done faster and not operationally destroy the park. I don't think it's a sign Phase 3 is being cancelled, it's simply a hangover from when Phase 3 was originally Phase 2 (and was Carsland).

Unlike most projects, the budget on this has been approved upfront. It's the content that may still change and be fudged to fit that budget.

Of course, Shanghai is looming...

I don't think Shanghai is the issue that's causing all of the cuts. I actually think it is a genius play by Chappie. It allows him to make cuts that he wanted to make anyway. But it also gives him a reason, so when the Cast Members are being told of their shortened hours or complete loss of jobs, they can be told that Shanghai is the reason. They don't have to face the harsh reality that Chappie is the reason. Better if people tweet #thanksshanghai than #thankschappie, right?

Capex now, even with Shanghai, is not much different than in 2010/2011. And these type of cuts didn't happen then. SDMT did get cut quite a bit, but day to day stuff really didn't get cut at all. I know I'm on the verge of being off topic, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't think Shanghai can be blamed for any changes to DHS. I really don't. If people with inside knowledge are saying the opposite, it's because they've been "lied" to, and the person before that was also lied to, and those lies can all be traced back to the guy with the bald head.

Anyway, my whole point is that I think Chappie has every intention to cut regardless of what's going on and that in the last year, the plans were changed and chopped down behind our eyes. You may not agree and the truth is we don't know, I am just making what seems like the most logical conclusion to me.

Hope you enjoy your trip to Shanghai, by the way. Are you going for one day or more? Please let us know how it is. Also, how well the fastpass system worked, I'm very interested in that. I don't know if you know, but all fastpasses will be gotten from one spot in each land rather than at each individual attraction. Why, I don't know, but interesting.

I'm sure the park be mostly finished, and hey, if it's not, you might get the best experience anyway. Because by the time WDW1974 visits, with the quality of construction there... I'm not sure if everything will still be standing.

Okay but now that's off-topic, so ummm.... Star Wars Land!

 

[doctornick]

So the insiders are (or at least some of them) now saying SOA/LMA is a possibility.

I could be wrong, but I don't feel like any of the insiders have suggested that they have heard information that Star Wars is going to the SoA/LMA area, but rather that no one can seem to confirm that it is still going to be at Echo Lake. Feel free to correct me @marni1971 @Ignohippo @MansionButler84 if I am wrong. Has anyone heard actual rumblings that there was a shift?

Actually, I'm kind of wondering if @articos knows anything, as this seems right up his alley.

 

[BrianLo]

I remain optimistic that SW is going into Echo Lake. I certainly hope it does for a couple of reasons: (1) connects to Star Tours which makes sense and will keep that attraction around, (2) allows expansion into the parking lot which provides much needed increases of the park footprint and (3) keeps SoA wide open for additional expansion (in fact, would be a gaping need given the layout of the park) which would mean Phase 3 is still on track.

I'll counter - they can and still will expand to the parking lots. They don't need Star Wars to justify doing that.

Operationally the parking lots/echo lake 'had to' be something starting later. The benefit now is Star Wars *could* open much, much sooner.

That's the primary reason to champion this, wanting DHS to open something (of major significance) before 2020. The second is they will actually properly build the DHS version from scratch, which was not what @Ignohippo had told us would happen up around Echo Lake.

I also don't think a simulator that takes place starting in a space port and visits a menagerie of planets, none of which are the new Star Was land, gels. But, I digress...


Totally agree with the rest of your post though!

 

[BrianLo]

I could be wrong, but I don't feel like any of the insiders have suggested that they have heard information that Star Wars is going to the SoA/LMA area, but rather that no one can seem to confirm that it is still going to be at Echo Lake. Feel free to correct me @marni1971 @Ignohippo @MansionButler84 if I am wrong. Has anyone heard actual rumblings that there was a shift?

Actually, I'm kind of wondering if @articos knows anything, as this seems right up his alley.

That's what I thought too, here are their recent comments though. It's certainly no longer a strong endorsement.

Given the new art, I think it's a valid question.

Obviously, things have changed since I got my info (I'm completely befuddled) and SW is going in the back corner where SoA was (or LMA to probably be more accurate), so that completely puts "Phase 3" up in the air. Time to fall on my sword. I know the info I had was good completely. Not sure how, when, or why things changed. It was explained to me that the DHS plans were designed specifically around the existing buildings around Echo Lake and that the DL plans mirrored the plans from DHS.

What if Phase 3 was cancelled? I'm so confused. As of only a few months ago, there was still talk of what would go in that corner. How did SW end up there?

What was mentioned to me is the whole SWL location could have moved earlier this year to facilitate faster construction. I still can't verify it, nor can I trust on the other hand the edge of a piece of concept art from another project.

It's a mess.

So I reached out to "my guy." He said IF Star Wars Land was moved to SoA, it would open closer to DL's version (only a 6-12 month delay, vs. 2 years) but the plan would then be to fill all of the show venues at the front of the park with new shows and call it a day (i.e. mermaid and BATB would get replacements and perhaps Indy would stay with a new show). I have to say, the plan makes logical sense but it is far from the bold plan I heard last July. Caveat is that he said he wasn't sure that this is the plan as he only heard about it a month ago.

Why hasn't work commenced on a garage?

 

[doctornick]

I also don't think a simulator that takes place starting in a space port and visits a menagerie of planets, none of which are the new Star Was land, gels. But, I digress...

Star Tours also takes place in a different time frame. I've said it before, but I'm actually cool with ST being separate from the rest of the land but if that were to happen, I'd like to see a mini-Star Wars land around ST (themed to a different planet perhaps, like Endor or Tatooine?) set in the time of the original trilogy. That would provide a thematically appropriate place for characters like Yoda, Darth Vader and Boba Fett to appear.

What I don't want is Star Tours off by itself in an odd, thematically inappropriate place.

That said, I'd be totally down with what you are suggesting and be fine for a Phase 3 that is located in Echo Lake -- as long as Phase three actually happens!

 

[BrianLo]

Hope you enjoy your trip to Shanghai, by the way. Are you going for one day or more? Please let us know how it is. Also, how well the fastpass system worked, I'm very interested in that. I don't know if you know, but all fastpasses will be gotten from one spot in each land rather than at each individual attraction. Why, I don't know, but interesting.

I'm sure the park be mostly finished, and hey, if it's not, you might get the best experience anyway. Because by the time WDW1974 visits, with the quality of construction there... I'm not sure if everything will still be standing.

Okay but now that's off-topic, so ummm.... Star Wars Land!

Lol, thanks. I'll really quickly run off topic with you. Doing 2 days split for sanity. June 16 and the 18th. I fully expect the reality will lie somewhere between the bleeding optimism and 50% painted. I'll have fun regardless and will take copious photos.

 

[Mike S]

Star Tours is very easily changeable.