Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi NO SPOILERS!!!!

[RandySavage]

Some of my bias may extend from reading Catalyst before the fact.

I went into R1 expecting just an okay movie and knowing nothing. So my jaw dropped about 20 times (beginning with Tarkin's surprise appearance and ending with Leia's). This was me (on the inside):


Shows how expectations affect experience.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

For the zillionth time internet, rotten tomatoes (or any internet based) fan scores are THE MOST useless metric of anything. They're 80% comprised of users who review movies multiple times with a score of 5 or 0.

DCEU fans notoriously run up the user scores to prove something. They are also the ones with a beef against "Disney".


Post Track comScores or Cinemascores are the only thing based on single-vote users who've ACTUALLY seen the movie and are allowed to vote once.

While I agree those numbers are manipulated...I don't think they are entirely not worthy of consideration...

Right now they are bogus slanted...but in a few weeks when the numbers of users go up - it will start to be more indicative.

And the problem here is that everyone is accepting the critics score without considering ulterior motives...while assuming fan scores are entirely due to ulterior motives...

Does that seem reasonable? It is not.

 

[BrianLo]

Lol...you're saying it's too deep?

I can see it for 2...maybe 3 characters being well developed...at most...

What about the other 15 rammed in there?

That's the name of the game. Which other Star Wars movie develops the 15 rammed in characters? It's fandom that has built up Bobba Fett.

There were many rammed in characters, it's by far not a flawless movie, don't get me wrong.

Also I'm saying it is nuanced. If you are scratching your head to come up with a third character that was developed, you've definitely missed the nuance. Two out of the three arcs did a great job at developing their core trio. The third is a bit flat, but a couple of characters were certainly advanced.

 

[BrianLo]

And the problem here is that everyone is accepting the critics score without considering ulterior motives...while assuming fan scores are entirely due to ulterior motives...

Does that seem reasonable? It is not.

Yes, I've seen this play out enough times in reverse with DCEU releases. Critics are generally more objective. Fans are generally subjective. Not across the board, but generally.

You cannot be seriously implying critics are paid off? While their opinions are in no way always the pulse of what the public at large will think, the RT and Metacritic score is reflective of what the critics think. The RT audience score is a complete fabrication of what the public thinks.

I do believe you are right though, this movie is divisive, but still not to that extent.

 

[BrianLo]

I went into R1 expecting just an okay movie and knowing nothing. So my jaw dropped about 20 times (beginning with Tarkin's surprise appearance and ending with Leia's). This was me (on the inside):


Shows how expectations affect experience.

I think so too. I'll admit my expectations destroyed Lost for me.

I think I was way too into R1, I knew about all those things you mentioned. I really knew nothing about TLJ. I still did like R1, I feel like it is coming off that I did not. I just think TLJ has some really unbelievable character moments.

 

[Sped2424]

I think fanboys will hate this film...but not for the reason stated.

Honestly...and let's cut it to the bone...return of the Jedi looks (still) like a way better movie to this day than anything tried since. It was shot in the right style with a story that was plausible in its in own genre...we've only ever seen glimmers here and there since.

I think one of the central problems is that these movies aren't shot for American audiences anymore...
They do too much service to foreign release (really made so they are visual tv style shows with no backstory or emotional attachment NEEDED...and that's a mistake) and to whizz bang, low attention span.

The original movies still hold up...you stop and watch when they're on tv in passing. Nothing since has. Only rogue 1 even feels slightly right to me.

Sorry but this argument is nonsense.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What specifically? I didn't really think anything was left unanswered?

Spoiler: What in the sam hell?

It's late...so sorry if this rambles...

1. I for one could care less about snoke. But they HAD to explain why he was the puppet master and where he was during the entire franchise and why he hated skywalker. They did NOTHING and now it's a tremendous hole in narrative that can't ever be fixed.

2. The "allies on the outer rim" is borderline "jedi master sipha dyas/clone army" bad...they're down to 3 stinking ships and leave with 20 people left - in total - and there's reserves somewhere over the rainbow? That was kindergarten screenplay writing...frankly.

This isn't a specific "hole" lots of important details have been handled with Lucas style meat hooks by Johnson AND Abrams...

Why are the winners of the war destitute without any equipment...or people for that matter? One Death Star blast wipes out every shred of order? That's counter to the entire mythos/appeal of Star Wars. It's bushleague.

Can we get a damn explanation?

Why do you continue to insert characters to not serve any purpose? Like phasma? Of Finn, frankly? He's there to be what ...Exactly?

Poe is wooden...beyond wooden. And the entire blown up cruiser bridge thing was beyond atrocious...culminating in that matrix nonsense...

And here's a good one...what kinda gas did they run on? I bet it's premium...

That kinda made the whole premise silly. And why did they attack and nearly destroy the ship with the fighters in the first 5 minutes and then NEVER do it for an hour and 30? What?

And honestly...I can see why hamill has been making veiled criticisms in the run up. They did "ok" with his return...but definitely could have done much better. Just my take.

And I have to echo other sentiments that this movie makes the last one pointless and I already thought there wasn't much of a point...so now you have a 3 movie ark that has 2 hours left that leaves us here:
1. Unknown, orphan force wizard
2. Conflicted baddie from main family that isn't sure of himself
3. Only main classic character - in a galaxy where nothing has been explained - is a dead one that looked absolutely horrendous In 2 movies...just can't ignore that.

So where goes from here? Highway to nowhere.

I did like mercurial Yoda...nice touch. And they had to do Akbar like that? According to their own backstory the most decorated commander that not only won the biggest onscreen battle...but the one that created the graveyard from 7 without a single mention of what went down? Again?

Will mon mothma be found dead on the crapper in episode IX?

It's like these guys have something better to than make simple explanations? Like cgi herds of things for space scenes.

Maybe Lucas has infiltrated and is secretly running a Shadow stupid?

 

[englanddg]

Just got out.

It...was not good.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sorry but this argument is nonsense.

Wow...that's a deep counter argument...

Anything to add pengy?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wow...that's a deep counter argument...

Anything to add pengy?

Yeah. Overwhelming a thread with repeating your opinion over and over again doesn't mean you're right.

Happy to oblige!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, I've seen this play out enough times in reverse with DCEU releases. Critics are generally more objective. Fans are generally subjective. Not across the board, but generally.

You cannot be seriously implying critics are paid off? While their opinions are in no way always the pulse of what the public at large will think, the RT and Metacritic score is reflective of what the critics think. The RT audience score is a complete fabrication of what the public thinks.

I do believe you are right though, this movie is divisive, but still not to that extent.

I am not saying critics are paid off...at least not in the traditional sense.

I think access and favor garners success in all journalism these days...and just maybe subconsciously, business is good when disney is lauded.

I'm not saying calls are made or envelopes are exchanged in dark allies...nothing of the sort. I just think the size and recent success of disney might have skewed objectivity from the critic ranks. Wouldn't they succeed when s Star Wars is reaping huge box office and they are out there with it?

Not a conspiracy...maybe just a natural tendency in the in the non-print, digital age?

 

[Quinnmac000]

Yeah. Overwhelming a thread with repeating your opinion over and over again doesn't mean you're right.

Happy to oblige!

Its an opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong. Lord.

 

[englanddg]

Its an opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong. Lord.

^^ This

Would like twice if I could.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah. Overwhelming a thread with repeating your opinion over and over again doesn't mean you're right.

Happy to oblige!

So nothing but a click?

See...that's nonsense. Dismissive without addressing any of the what's proposed.

If you notice...I'll not do that...stay tuned.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Its an opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong. Lord.

Opinions can be repetitive irrespective of being right or wrong.

 

[englanddg]

I'm still trying to process what I just saw.

In some ways, that's really good, right?

But...wrong.

When they get it right, man do they get it right. It's just all the littering of stuff they got wrong that is irking me. And, I'm trying to find a way that isn't just emotional venting to relay what it is that bothers me about it.

I will say one thing...the new characters they introduced with Force Awakens, I really like. I was happy to see where they were going, where they would end up. And, some of them I think are simply fantastic (though some of the writing surrounding them is...not).

I need to stew more.

But...this move...wasn't good. I almost didn't go see it because I know my family will want to see it together over the holiday, and my daughter will want to go for sure when I get her on Tuesday.

But...I just don't want to see it again. I just...don't.

About half the movie I was...bored.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Its an opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong. Lord.

But opinions can be formulated and worth considering...which is what I always look for even if i don't particularly agree with the premise...things can change.

But patronizing is pointless...always...not worth the keystrokes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Opinions can be repetitive irrespective of being right or wrong.

They also don't exist if you never attempt to make one

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm still trying to process what I just saw.

In some ways, that's really good, right?

But...wrong.

When they get it right, man do they get it right. It's just all the littering of stuff they got wrong that is irking me. And, I'm trying to find a way that isn't just emotional venting to relay what it is that bothers me about it.

I will say one thing...the new characters they introduced with Force Awakens, I really like. I was happy to see where they were going, where they would end up. And, some of them I think are simply fantastic (though some of the writing surrounding them is...not).

I need to stew more.

But...this move...wasn't good. I almost didn't go see it because I know my family will want to see it together over the holiday, and my daughter will want to go for sure when I get her on Tuesday.

But...I just don't want to see it again. I just...don't.

About half the movie I was...bored.

Well I can honestly say I've gone through "processing" after a Star Wars movie now 4 times...

...and alas none of the outcomes have been positive for my affection of movie.

I think you deep down know and not much is gonna change.

...they were 1,2,7, and now 8...by the way.

 

[BrianLo]

I am not saying critics are paid off...at least not in the traditional sense.

I think access and favor garners success in all journalism these days...and just maybe subconsciously, business is good when disney is lauded.

I'm not saying calls are made or envelopes are exchanged in dark allies...nothing of the sort. I just think the size and recent success of disney might have skewed objectivity from the critic ranks. Wouldn't they succeed when s Star Wars is reaping huge box office and they are out there with it?

Not a conspiracy...maybe just a natural tendency in the in the non-print, digital age?

Yes, I think this argument is much more well rationed! There is a Disney bubble. But it's earned in many ways too and more than counteracted by a few hipster critics or fans who just love nothing more than to see the big company fail. Disney films are not critic proof, we've had two this year already.



Anyways, as a general update the CinemaScore just came out - it is an A.